Necromunda Underhive - House of Chains Pg272

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**Albertorius**

Sqorgar wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there any other hobby out there where people complain as incessantly about getting new content? Do Dungeons and Dragons players go, "Ugh. More source books! Now they added a Monk class and new magic items? This DLC is nickel and dime-ing!"

...yes? Do you frequent many RPG forums at all? Fans complain because there is new content, because there isn't new content, because it's too long between sourcebooks, because it's too early between them, because., the new stuff invalidates their current stuff, because the new stuff is basically the same as the old., because.. anything, really.

Pretty much the same everywhere, which is logical enough, people being people.

**H.B.M.C.**

Chopstick wrote:
Your comparison about a generic new ganger type with option and loadout replacing a 1 per gang fighter with almost no option make as much sense.

So really, wilfully or otherwise, you just don't understand what I'm talking about and are using non-sequiturs in an attempt to disprove what I'm saying?

Lemme break it down for you:

Is the Zerker entry being replaced by this new Stimmer one, or added to?
Do Goliath gangs still have Juves, or are these Prospects a replacement for the Goliath Juve rules?

If the answer is "replace", then this is very bad, as it will render specific parts of the gang book obsolete before they've even seen a miniature release. If the answer is "add" then it's still bad, because it means there's an even greater backlog of Newcromunda crap to get through, but it's not as bad as the first possible answer.

Get it yet?

Sqorgar wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there any other hobby out there where people complain as incessantly about getting new content? Do Dungeons and Dragons players go, "Ugh. More source books! Now they added a Monk class and new magic items? This DLC is nickel and dime-ing!"

Invalid comparison, because D&D books don't have accompanying miniatures that are still not out years after the rules were out (also because D&D isn't a miniature game...), and are now seemingly being replaced with a similar thing leaving the older options in complete limbo.

**streetsamurai**

Crimson wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:

Still, I agree with you that female goliath doesnt fit at all with the theme of the gang

How?

Goliath are all about size and stength, and IIRC have a very short lifespan. An abnormaly huge and strong women would have been cool as a special character, but mixed gangs just doesn't match with how i view Goliath

**John D Law**

I would tend to agree.

Probably because fluff wise they are juiced to the gills former laborers who were created for there size and strength and lack of brains. None of these are traits normally associated with females in general. I know is sci fi but they still stick certain immutable facts. Just my attempt to decipher the idea that’s all.

**Elbows**

Yep, doesn't make sense with Goliath.

**H.B.M.C.**

*shrugs*

I mean if they're all vat-grown anyway, then I don't see having a giant muscle-bound female Goliath is any weirder than a giant muscle-bound male Goliath.

I just wish there were more obviously female Orlocks. Out of all the gangs (Escher notwithstanding) they're the one where female gangers would actually stand out, whereas with Van Saars/Cawdor they can be hidden, all Delaques look the same, and Enforcers wear giant suits of armour. Orlocks should have obvious female gangers.

**John D Law**

In the end I hope all the gangs get juves.

**streetsamurai**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

John D Law wrote:
In the end I hope all the gangs get juves.

Yes, while I'm not a huge fan of introducing yet some other specialist (I think that one of the main appeal of Necro is to have mostly rather generic profiles who became unique with skills and weapon selection), juves are badly needed for all the other gangs

**Deaf Chas**

Anyone who hasn’t read Necromunda Terminal Overkill should.

She doesn’t last long but Goliath woman sure gives as good as the rest of the lads and just as dumb

**ingtaer**

Done some cleaning in this thread and I guess its time to remind everyone that being polite here is not an option, it is a rule. Abide by it. If you see a post that breaks the rules then hit the yellow triangle and tell us about it but then do not respond. Suppose I may as well remind everyone that the other rules are stay on topic and don't spam.
Thanks for you cooperation,
ingtær.

**Sqorgar**

Found over on Board Game Geek, a thread about the Weekender last year:

Existing Gang Expansions
the two Saturday seminars went into some details about the expansion of the existing House gangs. This takes the form of the introduction of ‘specialist champions’ and ‘juve prospects’

not a lot was said about the champions, but logically these will provide unique weapons, wargear, and/or rules to the gangs that regular champions don’t. I’d hazard a guess to look at the new GSC characters for ideas (vox guy, tactician etc). They did go into a little lore detail for the prospects though.

Prospects are individuals that are actively trying to join the gangs, and as such get given dangerous weapons and jobs to do to prove themselves. Prospects will deal be gang specific and will vary in what they do. the only example given was that of the Goliaths, who get given Arc Welders. Welding tools that shoot out wipes of lightning to weld armour to ships and to the hive exterior, as you could imagine these weapons are dangerous not only to the enemy but the prospect himself and others near him. It was suggested to start with 2 or 3 of these, and after a few games you would probably only have one left alive, but they’d get really good.

Prospects, regular juves, and the new specialist champions would be coming on a new plastic sprue for each of the gangs (time lines, and if these are one at a time, or in waves is unknown). Also unknown if these will be sets of single pose models, or full multi-part kits like the standard sprues.

**timd**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
*shrugs*

I mean if they're all vat-grown anyway, then I don't see having a giant muscle-bound female Goliath is any weirder than a giant muscle-bound male Goliath.

**kestral**

That may be the first human being I've ever seen who actually DOES look like a 28mm heroic miniature blown up to life size.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
With, admittedly, small hands.

**H.B.M.C.**

That's horrifying, but even so, clad that in red armour, give her a mohawk, some bar piercings, a giant hand-cannon and really what's the difference?

**Breotan**

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.

**H.B.M.C.**

Breotan wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.

If they chickened out with the pointy-hat'd Cawdor guy, do you honestly think that Ratskins are ever going to see the light of day again?

**JustALittleOrkish**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Breotan wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.
If they chickened out with the pointy-hat'd Cawdor guy, do you honestly think that Ratskins are ever going to see the light of day again?

They put a Ratskin in the latest novella, but I agree they prob wont put models out there.

**Coenus Scaldingus**

Sqorgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, is there any other hobby out there where people complain as incessantly about getting new content? Do Dungeons and Dragons players go, "Ugh. More source books! Now they added a Monk class and new magic items? This DLC is nickel and dime-ing!"

DLCs provide extra content. They don't replace existing content.
If you play Goliath, you first had rules in Gang War 1. And then the Gangs of the Underhive book. And now in a new codex-esque supplement. Presumably the same will be true for all other gangs, and I would argue each had plenty of options once actual models are released for them. If more options and variation is desired, adding in e.g. the Guilds is a great option, once actual models are released for them. Not a fan of GW's fetish to release countless supplements each year which typically add very little (see also: Psychic Awakening). It was already hard to justify buying any because of the absolute mess they are in terms of proofreading and planning, and even more so if their content has a lifespan of about a year.

JustALittleOrkish wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Breotan wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.
If they chickened out with the pointy-hat'd Cawdor guy, do you honestly think that Ratskins are ever going to see the light of day again?

They put a Ratskin in the latest novella, but I agree they prob wont put models out there.

There certainly won't be any Ratskins exactly like they used to be. But then, many of the House Gangs aren't exactly like they used to be, and I could certainly see a new version with a slightly or heavily altered aesthetic. But not any time soon apparently, as they feel the need to re-release all House Gangs first...

**Agamemnon2**

I'm really liking the sculpts. Goliaths have never been my favorite gang aesthetically, but those big power saws on the juves and the exoskeletons on the hench big boys are great. For all of us Cyberpunk 2020 fans, there's a nice Linear Frame vibe to them. (indeed, you can see something similar worn by the Animals gang boss in last year's Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay teaser).

The actual release model of Necromunda is an idiotic mess, however, and shows that for all that GW's supposed changes upon changes, they are more or less the same. After changes, they are more or less the same.

aka_mythos wrote:
I'm curious to see whether the Slave Ogryn Gang is going to get actual models or if its a "use existing 40k model" list, that they expect you to use IG ogryn minis... From a practical standpoint, I wonder how many Ogryn's you'll actually be bringing. 3?

The 40k Ogryn kit is pretty nice, you could definitely build a decent gang with just those and some bitz. Heck, if the box wasn't so expensive, I'd be very tempted to do just that.

**jeff white**

Moar bookses!!!

**Albertorius**

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Sqorgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, is there any other hobby out there where people complain as incessantly about getting new content? Do Dungeons and Dragons players go, "Ugh. More source books! Now they added a Monk class and new magic items? This DLC is nickel and dime-ing!"

DLCs provide extra content. They don't replace existing content.
If you play Goliath, you first had rules in Gang War 1. And then the Gangs of the Underhive book. And now in a new codex-esque supplement. Presumably the same will be true for all other gangs, and I would argue each had plenty of options once actual models are released for them. If more options and variation is desired, adding in e.g. the Guilds is a great option, once actual models are released for them. Not a fan of GW's fetish to release countless supplements each year which typically add very little (see also: Psychic Awakening). It was already hard to justify buying any because of the absolute mess they are in terms of proofreading and planning, and even more so if their content has a lifespan of about a year.

That's true. Rather than DLC, it's planned obsolescence.

**JohnnyHell**

Albertorius wrote:
Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Sqorgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, is there any other hobby out there where people complain as incessantly about getting new content? Do Dungeons and Dragons players go, "Ugh. More source books! Now they added a Monk class and new magic items? This DLC is nickel and dime-ing!"

DLCs provide extra content. They don't replace existing content.
If you play Goliath, you first had rules in Gang War 1. And then the Gangs of the Underhive book. And now in a new codex-esque supplement. Presumably the same will be true for all other gangs, and I would argue each had plenty of options once actual models are released for them. If more options and variation is desired, adding in e.g. the Guilds is a great option, once actual models are released for them. Not a fan of GW's fetish to release countless supplements each year which typically add very little (see also: Psychic Awakening). It was already hard to justify buying any because of the absolute mess they are in terms of proofreading and planning, and even more so if their content has a lifespan of about a year.

That's true. Rather than DLC, it's planned obsolescence.

Planned? You give the writers too much credit! Nothing about Newcromunda seems planned... “opportunistic obselescence” maybe!

**Albertorius**

Well, as planned as it is in 40k or AoS, at any rate. A way to make you buy the same stuff over and over again every... apparently six months, nowadays.

I mean, as a subscription it seems a bit on the wasteful side

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Breotan wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.
If they chickened out with the pointy-hat'd Cawdor guy, do you honestly think that Ratskins are ever going to see the light of day again?

Googled ratskins to refresh the memory. What’s the problem here? Animal cruelty? They do adorn minis with bones all day every day.

I wonder what specials will Delaque get. Nice to see FW improve its painting, btw

**Yodhrin**

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Breotan wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean it's a nice addition but I think I'd rather they did something like Ratskin Renegades that could use Corvus Cabal figs as conversion fodder.
If they chickened out with the pointy-hat'd Cawdor guy, do you honestly think that Ratskins are ever going to see the light of day again?

Googled ratskins to refresh the memory. What’s the problem here? Animal cruelty? They do adorn minis with bones all day every day.

They're inspired by Native American tropes and more general "noble savage" concepts, and that's now badwrongtripleungoodculturalappropriation according to enough people that GW almost certainly won't want the controversy even if said people within the company don't end up with any authority over what gets made.

Sqorgar wrote:
Found over on Board Game Geek, a thread about the Weekender last year:

Existing Gang Expansions
the two Saturday seminars went into some details about the expansion of the existing House gangs. This takes the form of the introduction of ‘specialist champions’ and ‘juve prospects’

not a lot was said about the champions, but logically these will provide unique weapons, wargear, and/or rules to the gangs that regular champions don’t. I’d hazard a guess to look at the new GSC characters for ideas (vox guy, tactician etc). They did go into a little lore detail for the prospects though.

Prospects are individuals that are actively trying to join the gangs, and as such get given dangerous weapons and jobs to do to prove themselves. Prospects will deal be gang specific and will vary in what they do. the only example given was that of the Goliaths, who get given Arc Welders. Welding tools that shoot out wipes of lightning to weld armour to ships and to the hive exterior, as you could imagine these weapons are dangerous not only to the enemy but the prospect himself and others near him. It was suggested to start with 2 or 3 of these, and after a few games you would probably only have one left alive, but they’d get really good.

Prospects, regular juves, and the new specialist champions would be coming on a new plastic sprue for each of the gangs (time lines, and if these are one at a time, or in waves is unknown). Also unknown if these will be sets of single pose models, or full multi-part kits like the standard sprues.

Well, that last bit at least provides some hope the Prospects sprue will include some regular Juve arms & weapons on there.

**lord_blackfang**

Yodhrin wrote:

They're inspired by Native American tropes and more general "noble savage" concepts, and that's now badwrongtripleungoodculturalappropriation

Or, as normal people call it, racist.

**JWBS**

Removed - BrookM

**warl0rdb0b**

If we were to see Ratskins back, I'd expect them to double down hard on the archeotech worship side, with lots of machine pieces as armour, skitari styled weapons and wargear, alongside the rat pelts, just to make them distinctly New-cromunda.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Removed - BrookM

**H.B.M.C.**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Or, as normal people call it, racist.

That would require intent. Ratskins were a pastiche of Native American culture through the lens of an Imperial Hive same as Catachans are of Vietnam GIs, or Valhallans of WWII Russians, and so on.