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 streetsamurai wrote:
Must say that i think it would have been preferable to release the game when at least 2 other gangs would be available. I fear that this might kill a bit of the enthusiasm and will make it harder to attain a critical mass of gamers. Playing campaign with only Eschers and goliaths will get boring fast

I was honestly originally hoping for one more gang in time for christmas. It could make it harder for the game to find it's legs early on. Shadespire is more or less starting off with four functional teams. Whereas this Necromunda reboot appears to only have 2 gangs (while customizable to a decent degree) until january at the earliest. This is why i'm in no mad rush to get it, I could just hold off until christmas or something and not miss out on much at all.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jake wrote:
Thats exactly what DLC is. Can you explain what YOU think DLC is?

Expansions =/= DLC.

 jake wrote:
Your idea that DLC is "leaving out (existing) core content to release as expansions" is ridiculous. While there are surely instances of that happening in video games/computer games, that not what DLC is and thats not what the term means. That kind of practice is much rarer than people seem to think and is not how games are actually made.

Of course it's what the term means. There's so much bs cut content/Day-1 DLC/On Disc DLC/retailer exclusive DLC/pre-order exclusive DLC these days its sickening. Now they're taking further DLC and putting them into random gambling boxes that cost real-worked money. The AAA publishing work is about as corrupted by this as you can get.

Tabletop games are -nothing- like that. People are calling this Hive War book DLC because it seems like a tiny few bits of rules that could have been included in the main book. It doesn't seem substantial enough to be a whole expansion in and of itself.

Okay, nevermind. This isn't a conversation I want to have with you.

Think conflict comes from that for many DLC means basically day 1 release that could have been just as well in the main release. So releases that come say year later don't feel DLC as those obviously weren't ready in the initial release. Day 1 DLC's however were ready so are generally seen just as cash grab.

 Thargrim wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Must say that i think it would have been preferable to release the game when at least 2 other gangs would be available. I fear that this might kill a bit of the enthusiasm and will make it harder to attain a critical mass of gamers. Playing campaign with only Eschers and goliaths will get boring fast

I was honestly originally hoping for one more gang in time for christmas. It could make it harder for the game to find it's legs early on. Shadespire is more or less starting off with four functional teams. Whereas this Necromunda reboot appears to only have 2 gangs (while customizable to a decent degree) until january at the earliest. This is why i'm in no mad rush to get it, I could just hold off until christmas or something and not miss out on much at all.

I am guessing/hoping that they will have announced a couple of follow-on gangs before or on release day, to avoid that issue.

tneva82 wrote:
Think conflict comes from that for many DLC means basically day 1 release that could have been just as well in the main release. So releases that come say year later don't feel DLC as those obviously weren't ready in the initial release. Day 1 DLC's however were ready so are generally seen just as cash grab.

I also think it has something to do with the size of the release. If it was a 200-300 pages one, i dont think you would have seen too much complaints. But gang war being only 64 pages clearly put it in the cash grab category

The original release in 1995 was identical, it took 5-6 months for the 6 houses' models to be released.

Rules for other houses will probbly be available for free on the Necromunda website at release - the Legacy Gang rules - it would be similiar to what Blood Bowl got.

You can always play with your old models or converted gangs. Use IG or GSC for example to play with until the other gangs got released. And there are a lot of other manufacturer gang/scifi models already available. I use Moonraker's Scavengers.

It has not been announced yet, but with the Legacy Gang rules it would not be surprising if GW offers classic Necromunda gangs via made-to-order.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

I agree with you, BUT there's very much a chance that they'll continue to provide "premade" gangs in the Gang Expansions for the... we'll call them the "board game" or "gateway" crowd that the new boxed starter is also clearly aimed at.

And? I'm genuinely not getting why that's contentious, making it easier for players to get into the game is always a good thing so long as it doesn't result in the more advanced options being removed, which this evidently isn't.

No contention or even snark there. It's simply an observation that with additional cards likely to be part of the overall "gang pack" that premades following on from the core sets' ones are likely to be included as well. I'd even suggest that it's probably quite a good thing (if it happens) as it makes the game even more accessible to newcomers.

I know that you and I usually end up on opposite sides of these arguments, but reading through the thread the other day I was pretty close to full agreement with close to everything you've posted.


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 Galas wrote:
Personally I really like BloodBowl mechanics, but my experience has been the same as Strg Al. Everyone thinks the mechanics are to random, slow and cumberstome.
Everyone prefers Dreadball as a Rugby tabletop game.
Maybe I have said a stupid thing, and in UK and USA BloodBowl is all popular with leagues in all the country. But I'll keep my opinion on the rest of my post.

I'm not attacking you here, but the problem is probably just that you're extrapolating what you see in your local area to a much wider scale. I know that in my little local segment of my city that Flames of War is very popular. That doesn't mean that it's just as popular if we go six or ten suburbs North, or East, or...

Different cities and even different sections of the same city have quite different gaming demographics, just as they do with other demographics. There was some guy in the Dakka Discussions area from (I think) St Louis who was going on and on about how "nobody plays GW games in my (his) city." Which hosted a good half-dozen FLGS and even a GW store. He was simply extrapolating what he saw in his local circle and deciding that it applied to his entire city. That obviously sold enough direct to retail for GW to have a retail store of their own there.

So be careful of catchall generalisation terms like "everyone" in those two statements I quoted unless you're attaching them to a disclaimer like "everyone that I know personally" or "everyone at my gaming club", etc.




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 Breotan wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
...BUT there's very much a chance that they'll continue to provide "premade" gangs in the Gang Expansions for the... we'll call them the "board game" or "gateway" crowd that the new boxed starter is also clearly aimed at.

Normally, that would be called "sample" gangs. A quick workup designed for one-off mindless games that a veteran player looks at and immediately discards in favor of generating a new gang from scratch.

Um. Okay?

 Crimson wrote:
I really fail to see how the existence of premade gangs is a problem. As long as there is an option to create your own, it's fine.

This.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xavier5 wrote:
The answer seems pretty obvious, but I'll give it a try anyway
Is there any chance minis from Necromunda will be usable in regular 40k ? There's no gang faction I guess
I presume at least scenery elements could be reused for both

As gangers? slim to none.

As PDF/Conscripts/Cultists (Genestealer or Chaos)/Inquisitors' Warbands/bits of Ecchlesiarchy/etc? lots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jake wrote:

Tabletop gaming has been using what you would call a DLC model (release a base product, then release add-on products to enhance and expand the base product) since the days of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
For example:

Spoiler:

Buy the AD&D Players Guide, GM Guide and Monster manual, then later get the Rangers Handbook DLC, the Tomb of Horror's DLC and the Book of Artifacts DLC.
Buy Warhammer 40K 2nd edition, then later get the Dark Millennium DLC, the Codex: Space Wolves DLC and the Marneus Calgar DLC
Buy the X-Wing core set, then later get the Millennium Falcon DLC, the Tie Advanced DLC and the Rebel Aces DLC
Buy Necromunda, then later buy the Outlanders DLC, the Eschers DLC and the Weapon sprues DLC.

It's the same model. In tabletop games we call them expansions, or just new product releases. Thats how it used to be in computer/video games too, until downloading new content and digital sales became the norm.

Your idea that DLC is "leaving out (existing) core content to release as expansions" is ridiculous. While there are surely instances of that happening in video games/computer games, that not what DLC is and thats not what the term means. That kind of practice is much rarer than people seem to think and is not how games are actually made.

Actually, Jake. In vidaya and computer games they used to be called "expansions", not DLC. Generally consisting of a significant chunk of content that was created following the games' release, and often on a 6-month or so timeframe following the game coming out. Recent-ish examples akin to your Rangers's Handbook and Oriental Adventures or whatever would be RDR:Undead Nightmare, The Ballard of Gay Tony, Diablo III: Reaper of Souls, The Witcher III: Hearts of Stone/Blood and Wine, Wolfenstein: The Old Blood - even Dawn of War: Winter Assault to go back a little further.

Having the campaign rules for Necromunda, having the other team's rules for Blood Bowl available separately is much more akin to having carved a chunk out of the base game (because we know what used to be in the base game in the previous editions) to sell as Day-1 DLC.
(original) Death Zone and Outlanders were expansions.



There's your Undead Nightmare, your Blood and Wine, your Gay Tony.

Campaign and 3-d terrain rules carved off are your Ambush At Sea mission, your Blade of Galadriel mission.
Your From Ashes.

I mean, I'll still buy the Necromunda book, just like I bought the Season 1 & 2 books for Blood Bowl. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.





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 streetsamurai wrote:
Must say that i think it would have been preferable to release the game when at least 2 other gangs would be available. I fear that this might kill a bit of the enthusiasm and will make it harder to attain a critical mass of gamers. Playing campaign with only Eschers and goliaths will get boring fast

I'd expect that at least a pair of new gangs will be out in January. Surprised there's none for December, but I guess there still might be? Unless Shadespire is taking all of those "slots".

The DLC comparisons also miss a key fact; a lot of videogame dlc content is, in fact, already downloaded to your console if you are online or is on your disc and requires a key to access it.

It'd be like Games Workshop saying every copy of Necromunda containted a copy of Gang Wars but as it's encased in in a new indestructible substance you'll need a Necromunda Access Pass to actually use it.

December is traditionally bundles and hobby material month, rarely anything new model wise so expect this year to be no different IMO.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:

December is traditionally bundles and hobby material month, rarely anything new model wise so expect this year to be no different IMO.

My favourite GW hobby No chance in hell new release gets me feel like buying. Already have miles long purchase list as it is.

I just got white dwarf.

Game is £75/$125/€100

Gang Wars is £17-50/$30/€22-50

Gang Boxes are £25/$40/€32-50

Gang Card sets (not included with the gang boxes) £9/$15/€12

NoggintheNog wrote:
I just got white dwarf.

Game is £75/$125/€100

Gang Wars is £17-50/$30/€22-50

Gang Boxes are £25/$40/€32-50

Gang Card sets (not included with the gang boxes) £9/$15/€12

Thanks!!

Is there anything more interesting information?

That's.....that's not bad at all.

Gang War is a wee bit more than I was expecting. But £75 for the boxed game is reasonable enough that I might pick up two, so I can also have a cheapo Zone Mortalis board.

Hmmm.

Also, share us a pic Brother Nogginthenog! We likes peekachoors.

Will independent shops be able to sell this/these at a discount?

I'm working at the moment so I only had chance to get a brief look, and can't do pictures right now.

There's a full battle report on the base game and some painting guides too, and a 5 page or so bit about the fluff too, but I don't know if there is anything new in any of it.

Seventyone wrote:
Will independent shops be able to sell this/these at a discount?

Yes, as always.

Pricing not too bad. Any sign that anything released will be limited?

20% discount I can get the box, book and cards for just over £80. Not too bad to be fair. Might not even need the cards depending on if they have stuff not inside the boxed game.

Any news on what the separate card packs are?

So £60 after the independents 20% discount? Nice, that's Christmas sorted then.

Excellent Nog, thanks for posting. Good prices. I feared the starter would cost 125 EUR. Relieved to see it doesn't.

Many thanks for sharing the prices, this'll give me something to look forward to in a few weeks time and it's still within my pathetic budget.

 Motograter wrote:
20% discount I can get the box, book and cards for just over £80. Not too bad to be fair. Might not even need the cards depending on if they have stuff not inside the boxed game.

Any news on what the separate card packs are?

Cards are for gang tactics, currently there are escher and goliath packs. I think they are in the main game, but are probably needed if you buy the gang box separately, and I would assume that when new gangs are released, they will release tactic card packs for them too.

Nothing is marked as limited, and all the bases, dice and scenery (barriers and doors and so on) in the boxed game is also availabel separately.

"Gang Boxes are £25/$40/€32-50"

Please tell me they have pics? Who is it?! Please be Orlocks!

Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
"Gang Boxes are £25/$40/€32-50"

Please tell me they have pics? Who is it?! Please be Orlocks!

As already confirmed its escher and goliaths. The other gangs are to follow next year

Oh I see, my apologies. Damn I was hoping for a few extra Houses, didn't think it would be the gangs from the box set.

From war of sigmar

Special Barricades and terrain set : 22.5£
Bulkhead doors: 22.5£
Set of textured (underhive) base, 25 or 32 mm 4£ for 10

Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
Oh I see, my apologies. Damn I was hoping for a few extra Houses, didn't think it would be the gangs from the box set.

So you thought they would leave goliath/escher players having to buy multiple boxed sets to get more bodies? Now that would be rather illogical!

edit: Well maybe not that illogical...but customer unfriendly.

Wonder if my WD will be waiting for me when I get in?

Genuinely can't remember if my annual sub renewed or not. The perils of one month a year when you don't need to watch your bank account.

Desperate to see pics!

anyone seen the prices in AU$ ?

I can probably make a solid guess going by the other currencies, but it'd be good to know for sure...

Gang tactics are in gang war, not main box , apparently

 Azazelx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

I agree with you, BUT there's very much a chance that they'll continue to provide "premade" gangs in the Gang Expansions for the... we'll call them the "board game" or "gateway" crowd that the new boxed starter is also clearly aimed at.

And? I'm genuinely not getting why that's contentious, making it easier for players to get into the game is always a good thing so long as it doesn't result in the more advanced options being removed, which this evidently isn't.

No contention or even snark there. It's simply an observation that with additional cards likely to be part of the overall "gang pack" that premades following on from the core sets' ones are likely to be included as well. I'd even suggest that it's probably quite a good thing (if it happens) as it makes the game even more accessible to newcomers.

I know that you and I usually end up on opposite sides of these arguments, but reading through the thread the other day I was pretty close to full agreement with close to everything you've posted.

Isn't that the third sign of the apocalypse or something?

NoggintheNog wrote:
I just got white dwarf.

Game is £75/$125/€100

Gang Wars is £17-50/$30/€22-50

Gang Boxes are £25/$40/€32-50

Gang Card sets (not included with the gang boxes) £9/$15/€12

Hmmmm. The gang boxes are about where I expected, the Gang Wars book is a couple of quid too expensive, but tolerable, but the box game going up a tenner over Blood Bowl is a bit irksome, I was expecting it to be more like 70. Still, tolerable after online discount.

zamerion wrote:
From war of sigmar

Special Barricades and terrain set : 22.5£
Bulkhead doors: 22.5£
Set of textured (underhive) base, 25 or 32 mm 4£ for 10

Ooooohhhh, depending on the contents and whether they are and remain available from discounters, that bulkhead doors box could be *very* interesting - I was planning to cast them up and use them as the basis of walls for my own 3D version of the Zone Mortalis tiles, but if the price per-bulkhead is low enough then it might be worth just buying them straight-up when you consider time cost and wastage from the casting process.