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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Necro was usually 4x4, though smaller could work. Depends on charge distances and height really.

Vorian wrote:

4x4 is what the example table set up in the gang war book is (and 4x4 was always the table size in the original. That's the size you're going to want really.

Thanks guys!

I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.

And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.

So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.

Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.

The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.

The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.

How is it not like old Necromunda?

The activation has changed and the gangs have been given a bit more divergence. Apart from that it's basically the same game with a lick of paint.

We know basically every rule, what more information are you looking for?

I think we will be better suited to judge once we know the exact contents of gang war really. Yeah it sucks that its 2D but then I don't have the cash for the game, full campaign rules and 4ft square of expensive plastic terrain. Things are a lot more expensive now than in the 90s so I don't hold it against them doing things this way. Plus any necromunda vet worth his salt will have a copy of the previous rules (they were free for a long time) and the game has managed to survive without any support at all so anything the player base doesn't like will be ironed out sooner or later with the home rules necromunda players have been using since the end of specialist games support. I am just happy to have new models, it was the price of the models on ebay etc that kept me from playing. All in all I remain optimistic.

W1ntermute wrote:
I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.

And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.

So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.

Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.

I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.

 streetsamurai wrote:

W1ntermute wrote:
I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.

And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.

So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.

Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.

I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.

Lot of boardgamers bought Shadowspire.

Just an obserwation. I don't have to be right. But new Necromunda is similar to many sci fi dungeon crawlers - Level7, Seven sins, Doom and others: You have tiles as other games, customized dices - don't see the point - single d6 was working well. This is GW following the trend for other games.

Only one difference: you have to glue the miniatures (no snap fit). And this is true test.

Slipspace wrote:
The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.

The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.

Truthfully?

MWG videos, on their own when they have nobody making sure they are playing things right, are very hit or miss. This is a common critique of their stuff. The video of them playing Necromunda with the actual designers of the game showed that MWG didn't really know what they were doing or sit down and read the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised to see MWG not getting a preview copy of another game because of that.

Vorian wrote:How is it not like old Necromunda?

The activation has changed and the gangs have been given a bit more divergence. Apart from that it's basically the same game with a lick of paint.

Because the rules are different. For me, they're so different it's basically a different game. The Necromunda rules to me encompass everything from the in-game rules to the various post-battle campaign sequences. This new version just doesn't have what I'm looking for.

Vorian wrote:


We know basically every rule, what more information are you looking for?

I'm not looking for more info. I have as much as I need at this point.

Kanluwen wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.

The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.

Truthfully?

MWG videos, on their own when they have nobody making sure they are playing things right, are very hit or miss. This is a common critique of their stuff. The video of them playing Necromunda with the actual designers of the game showed that MWG didn't really know what they were doing or sit down and read the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised to see MWG not getting a preview copy of another game because of that.

You seem to be under the impression I've based my decision on the MWG review alone. I haven't. There are other factors as well (which I mentioned and which you quoted, BTW) but seeing the rules in action and getting a better look at the contents of the box and what to expect from the base game, I was put off. This is a purchase of almost £100 so I'll base my decision on whatever info GW releases, in whatever format they choose. I know what MWG's reputation is - they're X-Wing videos were some of the most unintentionally funny gaming videos I've ever seen - but this is what I have to go on.

I'm not saying people who buy it are idiots, I'm simply saying I don't think it's what I want it to be and GW haven't done a good enough job to persuade me to take the plunge at the price they're asking. If the Gang War rules were included in the base price of the game I would have been much more willing to take the risk.

You're free to not buy it or like the changes of course. My issue was that you said it "isn't anything like the Necromunda I know", which is a bit of an exaggeration.

It's very recognisable as Necromunda. Activations are totally different, melee is totally different (to make the alternate activations work) - almost everything else is slightly changed or identical.

Again, I'm not saying you have to like all or any of the changes - I certainly won't be playing fixed load outs for example - but it's certainly a modification of the old.

This is gonna be very much like Necromunda, only newer and better. Post-game sequence, level-ups, injuries, income and all that. Can't wait!

W1ntermute wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

W1ntermute wrote:
I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.

And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.

So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.

Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.

I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.

Lot of boardgamers bought Shadowspire.

Just an obserwation. I don't have to be right. But new Necromunda is similar to many sci fi dungeon crawlers - Level7, Seven sins, Doom and others: You have tiles as other games, customized dices - don't see the point - single d6 was working well. This is GW following the trend for other games.

Only one difference: you have to glue the miniatures (no snap fit). And this is true test.

The snap bit thing is huge, that is literally the primary barrier for many, many board gamers, do they need to buy glue and carefully read instructions to put the models together? Also the price point is double that of Sharespire, $120 is a bit out of the range of impulse buy IMO.

Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.

Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.

Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.

I don't even know what a bandwagon fan is supposed to be in this instance...

Presuming this is at least partially aimed at me, I would counter by pointing out I never said it was a bad game, just not the game I was expecting. This is based on what I've seen so far. If that's "pretty much nothing" it's hardly my fault as a customer that GW haven't provided much info.

While we're brining up "standard internet usage" your comment about being able to afford it is a nicely presumptuous case of pot and kettle. I can afford the game quite easily, thank you very much, I just don't think there is enough value in it for me at his point in time. I could be proven wrong in the future, at which point I may pick it up, but not yet.

Responding to Vorian, I also think the game really isn't much like the old Necromunda. Changing the gangs to have different stats and different equipment is a big departure for me, as are a lot of the changes I've picked up on in the post-game sequence and gang progression system. Then there's the changes to Overwatch, the changes to the Jam mechanic and several other little changes that I think take it a little too far away from what I want in a new Necromunda game. Again, not saying it'll be terrible, just not what I'm after.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.

Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.

And ordering a game about which you know basically nothing is ''brilliant''???!!!! (and for the record I pre-ordered the game)

I get it that for some it's fun to blast posters for no good reasons, but at the very least, try to have a coherent argument before doing so

But we know everything about the game, basically.

@slip, a lot of the little changes seem pretty trivial - but there's always the old game with new miniatures.

Actually, if you just changed the old game to alternate activation and new melee and left everything else as is you'd probably still get the benefits of alternate activations without any of the other changes. Might try that.

If the changes put you off just play the old one or the NCE edition on YakTribe. The old Necromunda is far from dead. If the new one appeals, buy it.

Not really. We basically know nothing about the campaign mechanism, which is what necro is all about for most

Do we not? Maybe not the fine details, but we basically know how they work.

Unless I missed something, I don't recall much details being given on the revenu generation systems and the territory. Which are a big part of the campaign rules.

We also don't know much about the 3d rules

Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.

Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.

Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.

Slipspace wrote:

You seem to be under the impression I've based my decision on the MWG review alone. I haven't. There are other factors as well (which I mentioned and which you quoted, BTW) but seeing the rules in action and getting a better look at the contents of the box and what to expect from the base game, I was put off. This is a purchase of almost £100 so I'll base my decision on whatever info GW releases, in whatever format they choose. I know what MWG's reputation is - they're X-Wing videos were some of the most unintentionally funny gaming videos I've ever seen - but this is what I have to go on.

I'm not saying people who buy it are idiots, I'm simply saying I don't think it's what I want it to be and GW haven't done a good enough job to persuade me to take the plunge at the price they're asking. If the Gang War rules were included in the base price of the game I would have been much more willing to take the risk.

Where are you shopping for your games? I pre-ordered the main game, gang war, two extra boxes of gangers and both sets of extra cards and the whole lot was £120. You can get the game+gang war for much less than £100 - It's £70 from Dark Sphere.

 Motograter wrote:
Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.

Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.

Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.

Ok...

1. The old Necromunda did come with two books. But that's the difference: It came with the two books. You didn't buy one after the fact. Moreover you had the rules for all 6 gangs (such as they were) right from the get go, not just 2 of them, and not missing basic stuff like chainswords.

2. I don't necessarily disagree about the activation system and trying something new - I'm looking forward to the Newcromunda rules - but for the most part people don't seem to be complaining about that.

3. I don't think Necro desperately needed anything other than a whole stack'a new missions. And it's not about 'dinosaurs that can't fathom anything new', so maybe don't take that tact. There's nothing wrong with liking Necromunda as it is. It hasn't endured as long as it has on rose-tinted nostalgia.

 Motograter wrote:
Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.

Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.

Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.

Apparently expressing a mild dislike of something is enough to get jumped on nowadays. I'm now both destitute and a dinosaur.

Needless to say, I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. I don't think anyone who picks up the new Necromunda is an idiot and if they enjoy the game, that's great. It's just not for me, hence the cancellation of the pre-order (which was direct from GW, for convenience sake, since somebody asked). You see how I managed to do that without being a complete **** about it? Maybe try that next time?

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.

Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.

And ordering a game about which you know basically nothing is ''brilliant''???!!!! (and for the record I pre-ordered the game)

I get it that for some it's fun to blast posters for no good reasons, but at the very least, try to have a coherent argument before doing so

LOL! Gotta love a looping response like that!

The old Necromunda came with 3 books dammit!

I hope in the new edition they do something about the proliferation of high S weapons for regular gangs. Having gangers run around with melta weapons or plasma in a game where barely anyone has much armour was kind of ridiculous.

I'd prefer a game which had a different damage band scale, with autoguns, shotguns and the like being the norm, with the Heavy Stubber as the main heavy weapon available, and things like lasguns being a bit more exotic. That way on a D6 system things aren't so off kilter. But it looks like that won't be a thing since Goliath's are now S & T 4 from what I have read.

Not very impressed with how the miniatures are looking either. They're a bit bulky, both for the Goliath's and Escher. I have my old gang miniatures from a ways back, and prefer the Escher look from back then compared to the ones available in this set. The Goliaths I don't really like much at all to be honest. You could always make your own using Dark Eldar Wyches for Escher, with a bit of green-stuff for hair and the like if necessary. Goliaths could be done using Warhammer Khorne beserker types, but wouldn't be that close to how the originals were. A bit sad but that's how it is I guess.

See, as a long term Necromunda player, I rarely if ever really bothered with high powered weapons.

I’d rather invest my Creds in sheer numbers than a single serious weapon. Hell, I’d take a Heavy Stubber over a Heavy Bolter anyday. Though I did make an exception for Grenade Launchers. Their range and punch was just about perfect for me.

I also preferred Pistols to Basic Weapons. I tended to find I just didn’t need the extra range. My style was to hug terrain, keeping out LoS as much as possible. And it usually worked pretty well.

I know they’re likely gone, but I found the judicious application of Vents and Tunnels was the real trick. A Juve with a Hand Flamer popping up in the right place in the right time was downright deadly when it still had the diddy template. And of course bagged them lots of precious XP.

Keep on the move, dodge, duck, dip and dive. That’s the Grotsnik play

Some high-powered weapons had a point. Plasma Guns on low power were more reliable Bolters, which made them useful. Heavy Bolters were a real step up from Heavy Stubbers if you had it on a Weapon Smith and a few Armourers in your gang. And as I said, Lascannons were a prestige weapon, no matter how silly it was to have one.

Meltaguns? Not as flexible as Plasma Guns.
Autocannons? Fewer shots, why bother?
Missile Launchers? Frag missiles are good, but the 'Auto' ammo roll sucked.

Just preferred to put my faith in more dudes with more guns in more places.

Mind you, as Cawdor I typically wound up with far more Disarm than normal. So when it came to be expensive stuff, I tended to break my opponent’s rather than buy my own.

But hey, if there was ‘one way to play’, the game would’ve sucked.