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The fluff arguments against Squats returning are pretty shallow... all you need is "a previously unmentioned set of colonies in a different part of the galaxy was cut off due to warp storms, but now they have returned."

That doesn't mean that I think Squats will come back as an army (though I wouldn't mind). I don't think they will. But fluff will have nothing to do with that.

 Galas wrote:
And yeah "But I'll face them!" better for you, you'll be able to kill them. But maybe this is the Tau player on me, that has grown a thick skin after years of "Tau aren't proper 40k!"

Just like many of the more hairbrained ideas that GW and the Community has come up with, "Sure, make it so I can kill it" works for me.

I know a few people that might buy this, but sadly Necromunda is... not very popular near me. Shadow War is much more popular. I guess that comes with being able to grab a few dudes from your army and use them.

A positive out of this, it might actually kickstart them making more Necromunda stuff.

And consider me spiteful with Necromunda, because as I understand it's NOT compatible with Shadow War.

I like that they are getting a shout out in Necromunda, but Im of the general opinion of “good riddance” to the squats.

One squat is fine. It's pretty absurd to think the ENTIRE RACE was destroyed at the *same* time in a galaxy of thousands of planets with billions serving in the armies of the Imperium.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
[You know, like those metal sisters they can't seem to sell off, despite every forum and comment section being clogged with people demanding them.

No one wants 20 year old sculpts at 15$ a model. What people do want are updated sculpts, viable material (plastic) and rules that actually make sense.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Meanwhile, you have squats who have no homeworld, don't have numbers, no longer have access to all the equipment they had or their industrial capabilities, aren't space marine level strong or tough, aren't eldar level agile, don't really any support from the imperium (who are known to treat abhumans like gak. Do you really think they would give abhumans rare power armor if they had the choice?), are on the brink of extinction and aren't overall ubermensch.

And as we all know, GW never changes the fluff or retcons anything.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You might as well ask why we don't have a standalone ratling or ogryn book.

Because neither of them are large multi-planet spacefaring civilisations?

 ncshooter426 wrote:
No one wants 20 year old sculpts at 15$ a model. What people do want are updated sculpts, viable material (plastic) and rules that actually make sense.

No one wanted them when they were alongside other metal sculpts, either.

Don't get me wrong here, I kinda want to see them make them into a viable army and get them plastic sprues. With varible chestplate options for people who have difficulties with women having breasts and whatnot. Something you can stick g'nades to and whatnot. I want them to crank them out and make them viable. And, if you wanna know why?

Because I'm actually sick of seeing people whine about them. Any GW release- New Space Marine Unit? New Eldar Model? Age of Sigmar female Stormcast? Duncan drinks paint water?

Reee! Still no plastic sisters! Reee!

Dozens of posts that amount to this. Followed up by the inevitable, "hurr hey you member squats?"

Hell, I encourage them to bring this stuff back. If it sells, good. If it flops, well- we all know the difference between spenders and keyboarders that play Dawn of War.

Jesus, just make the stuff already and move on, GW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You might as well ask why we don't have a standalone ratling or ogryn book.

Because neither of them are large multi-planet spacefaring civilisations?

Codex: Ogryn Kingdoms.

One can dream...

Squats were too silly for the Grim Dark and were supplanted by Necrons and Sisters of Battle.

Honestly, I thought the greatest hindrance to their resurrection as Demiurg was the Mantic Forgefathers


Then GW released the Kharadron Overlords, which actually took me a few minutes to realize that they were an Age Of Sigmar release and not a Warhammer 40,000 one.

I don't follow age of sigmar, but holy gak that really does look like a 40k model.

Makes you wonder.

Edit: I just went and looked at the range. If an insider told me they were squats and they decided last minute to make them fantasy I wouldn't have doubted it.

 Da-Rock wrote:

As I said before, I think the design team hated them and that's why they died.

In the statement I don't recall reading anywhere stating that they "Hated" the squats. If they did it was more so that the designers hated the corner that the designers wrote them selves into when they designed the squats and in turn lost interest in the faction. In the post from Jervis in that none of the designers could find a muse or a source of interest and excitement for the squats and instead worked on all the other factions where the designers were interested and excited about. Eventually and sadly because of that they were written out of the fluff.

I have a Tyranid, Tau and a Deamonhunters army that I no longer build and play with because I have lost interest in them. That dose not mean I hate those armies, I have simply lost interest though replacing the older versions of the big bugs with the newer one's would be fun to do.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:
No one wants 20 year old sculpts at 15$ a model. What people do want are updated sculpts, viable material (plastic) and rules that actually make sense.

No one wanted them when they were alongside other metal sculpts, either.

Don't get me wrong here, I kinda want to see them make them into a viable army and get them plastic sprues. With varible chestplate options for people who have difficulties with women having breasts and whatnot. Something you can stick g'nades to and whatnot. I want them to crank them out and make them viable. And, if you wanna know why?

Because I'm actually sick of seeing people whine about them. Any GW release- New Space Marine Unit? New Eldar Model? Age of Sigmar female Stormcast? Duncan drinks paint water?

Reee! Still no plastic sisters! Reee!

Dozens of posts that amount to this. Followed up by the inevitable, "hurr hey you member squats?"

Hell, I encourage them to bring this stuff back. If it sells, good. If it flops, well- we all know the difference between spenders and keyboarders that play Dawn of War.

Jesus, just make the stuff already and move on, GW.

What dose not help the SoB is that they are webstore only (have zero exposure in the retail stores) and stupid expensive. For the cost of one SoB squad I can get twice the number of space marines

My first ever purchase of GW figs was a box of epic scale squat infantry, which I bought in, hmm, 1988 or 89 maybe. Yeah, I'm fine with Squats coming back, whether it's just in Necromunda or all the way to 40K. My nostalgia for squats is strong, and I will be getting a Squat bounty hunter.

I took a long hard look at the Overlords figs with the notion to turn them into a 40K army. It's doable, but the sheer amount of weapon swaps needed to get WYSIWYG made it a back burner idea. I love the range though.

Man I'm really diggin N17... kick ass release imho -

Also, that rambo tricycle was the BOMB back in the 80's! Back when kids toys were all gun-laden military kill machines lol

They can easily bring them back.

Main points:

Games Workshop said the Squat Worlds were the least likely to be attacked by the Tyranids due to so little bio mass for them to absorb.

The Marines in the Emperors Crusade were getting their butts handed to them until they made a new armor.

Squats live in inhospitable worlds. They can easily seal off the Nids and use their subterranean warfare to keep their deep bunkers safe. So what if they siphon off the atmosphere.....no different than living on desolate moons. Heck many of the Homeworlds were that already.

Many Squat HomeWorlds were within Imperial Space.

The center of the galaxy is huge....and that wasn't the only Squat worlds.

The Squats had massive space fleets....they could have taken off.

The Squats had over 700 leagues.

A league was made up of 4 to 300 strongholds. The Strongholds were on many different worlds. Thus we are talking billions and billions of squats and tens of thousands of worlds. I am sure some within the galactic center still survived.....not to mention the hundreds outside and those within the Imperium (which would have the full might of the Imperium to defend that section of space.

As mentions there would be millions if not more squats in the Imperial Armies across the galaxy during the Nid invasion.

So with all of this it is almost impossible to think there are no squat forces left. There were far more Squats than Marines.
Hard to imagine that any ONE tyranid fleet could take on all the Marines at once.....Because the forces of the Squats were at least that equal in power.

And instead of the stupid ritual Ad Mech forces....we can have some actual thinking and intelligent and modern-relatable race of the Squats. They would be the closest to our earth.....they don't believe in a load of mumble jumble like most of the imperium...they actually use their brains.

They would have the best tech outside of Necrons and Eldar.
Anything the Imperium has they would have it better!

oh the possibilities....even for a few Homeworlds and some exiled Pirate Fleets....would be enough for 40k gamers.

My personal belief is the tau are sort of what the squats were. They took a lot of the mechanics and technology side of their story and gave it to Tau.... And how much poorer is the game for that decision.

Squats coming back has been a viable possibility since the moment they were axed, Jervis even said so in citadel journal 33:

"Although the Squat Homeworlds no longer exist, there are still bands of Squats that fight independently and follow the old traditions of their race. Many have become little more than pirates and brigands, although some consider themselves freedom fighters attempting to restore Squat independence"

You can't destroy a spacefaring race by destroying their homeworld, in the same way that destroying France won't cause every French person on the planet to spontaneously combust.

Dependant on what he looks like in the flesh (resin, plastic whatever), my side project may have a new Boss.




Kharadrons and my bits box.....

Messiah wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:
Yeah...while I'm glad squats are back (even if just one)...this is yet another punch in the jimmies for Sisters.

feth it, I'm pledging my girls to Slaanesh and waging war on the golden throne.

Squat players have been waiting far longer than sisters..

like I said, call me when sisters reach 25yrs, then they can complain.

in all seriousness tho, please make Plastic Sisters and maybe some 40kharadron!

but the bounty hunter is a must buy for any fan of the rotundus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 admironheart wrote:
They can easily bring them back.

Main points:

Games Workshop said the Squat Worlds were the least likely to be attacked by the Tyranids due to so little bio mass for them to absorb.

The Marines in the Emperors Crusade were getting their butts handed to them until they made a new armor.

Squats live in inhospitable worlds. They can easily seal off the Nids and use their subterranean warfare to keep their deep bunkers safe. So what if they siphon off the atmosphere.....no different than living on desolate moons. Heck many of the Homeworlds were that already.

Many Squat HomeWorlds were within Imperial Space.

The center of the galaxy is huge....and that wasn't the only Squat worlds.

The Squats had massive space fleets....they could have taken off.

The Squats had over 700 leagues.

A league was made up of 4 to 300 strongholds. The Strongholds were on many different worlds. Thus we are talking billions and billions of squats and tens of thousands of worlds. I am sure some within the galactic center still survived.....not to mention the hundreds outside and those within the Imperium (which would have the full might of the Imperium to defend that section of space.

As mentions there would be millions if not more squats in the Imperial Armies across the galaxy during the Nid invasion.

So with all of this it is almost impossible to think there are no squat forces left. There were far more Squats than Marines.
Hard to imagine that any ONE tyranid fleet could take on all the Marines at once.....Because the forces of the Squats were at least that equal in power.

And instead of the stupid ritual Ad Mech forces....we can have some actual thinking and intelligent and modern-relatable race of the Squats. They would be the closest to our earth.....they don't believe in a load of mumble jumble like most of the imperium...they actually use their brains.

They would have the best tech outside of Necrons and Eldar.
Anything the Imperium has they would have it better!

oh the possibilities....even for a few Homeworlds and some exiled Pirate Fleets....would be enough for 40k gamers.

^-this-^ a BILLION TIMES.

I suppose it's good for people that like them?

Personally I never "got" Rogue Trader, I was a WHFB laddie until the tail end of 2nd so Squats were only ever a thing for me in so far as they were either a joke or a battlecry for Oldhammer grogs. They were a faction-sized pisstake of the Dwarf archetype - a lot of RT-era stuff was the same - and personally I always disliked that kind of "Hahaha, no no, normie person, I'm not genuinely enjoying this thing you consider ludicrous and childish, I'm ALSO laughing at how silly it is! Honest!" writing.

But hey, evidently plenty of people disagree, just as they seem to enjoy companies basing their marketing on jokes at the customers' expense(hi HMBC, reporting for duty), so why not eh.

What about this is at my expense?

 Da-Rock wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Galas wrote:
They are if you lose copyright of it.

Not sure I'm understanding, was it the name that they lost copyrights to? We're talking about a company that renames their armies to retain copyrights.

Squats were before my time. I think. If they were around during my time, I'm pretty sure they weren't on any tables.

I read the parts about the copyright,...

There's nothing about copyright in Jervis' old post. he mentions licensing, but that's not the same thing at all. He's talking there about GW's old Lord of the Rings, Judge Dredd, Elric and Doctor Who (and possibly Star Trek) ranges, that GW no longer had the licence to manufacture by that point (their old LotR minis from the 80s, not the ones they sell now based on the films). Possibly also the Ral Partha ranges they used to make under licence in the UK. Note that GW would still own the copyright on any miniatures they sculpted (and on any names they made up, if those names weren't already in the licenced setting) regardless of whether they were allowed to make the miniatures or not.

But anyway, Squats ... I like this guy. All I need now is a Navigator mini that isn't an old geezer like Forge World's one and I can field Inquisitor Draco and his retinue in 40k. This new bounty hunter has a strong 2nd edition vibe - the armour reminds me of the greatcoated guardsman from the 2nd edition setting book, and the weaponry and general appearance reminds me of the two unreleased Squat models shown in the 2nd ed rulebooks.

I'm not sure the Forgefathers had much to do with the lack of presence of the demiurge - they'd been shelved well before Mantic released their space dwarfs. I'd like to see the Demiurg (and the Nicassar) to make an appearance as Tau allies alongside the Kroot and Vespid.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
... snip ...

Back then, the design studio had pretty much most of the say in what got made. There was pretty much zero marketing department to speak of, so if the creatives said "Don't want to do it" then that was that. They even produced a series of prototypes around about the launch of second edition but as was posted above, they weren't inspired enough to actually flesh them out. They were briefly available during a Games Day but never made a release.

A lot of the Squat designs and background are from the early days of Rogue Trader and will seem a bit strange today. Dislike them all you like, that's your prerogative, but they are fondly remembered by many and I for one would love to see them return and done justice. And as for the money being there, well I see this as an opportunity. A little toe in the water, if you will, in a similar manner around their approach to Blood Bowl - a release that shocked them with how well it sold. Also, don't forget that, for a long time, GW did no market research at all. So they'd have no clue on what would or wouldn't sell.

First of all that video they put out is amazing, I like that GW seems to be taking themselves less seriously. A squat character is also great to add to necromunda. They can prod the waters for similair models and I hope that they will eventually develop the deminurg into the new space dwarfs, which they have been refered to as the fluff. This partly was their reason for existing (as a way to reintroduce space dwarfs) and it will also be great to give other factions (tau) a sub faction instead of giving the Imperium yet another sub faction.

I'm thrilled that they were willing to have fun with this AND that we're getting a Squat - even if it's just one for Necromunda.

I can't wait to see the actual model - which I hope is a little more interesting than the art.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:
No one wants 20 year old sculpts at 15$ a model. What people do want are updated sculpts, viable material (plastic) and rules that actually make sense.

No one wanted them when they were alongside other metal sculpts, either.

Don't get me wrong here, I kinda want to see them make them into a viable army and get them plastic sprues. With varible chestplate options for people who have difficulties with women having breasts and whatnot. Something you can stick g'nades to and whatnot. I want them to crank them out and make them viable. And, if you wanna know why?

Because I'm actually sick of seeing people whine about them. Any GW release- New Space Marine Unit? New Eldar Model? Age of Sigmar female Stormcast? Duncan drinks paint water?

Reee! Still no plastic sisters! Reee!

Dozens of posts that amount to this. Followed up by the inevitable, "hurr hey you member squats?"

Hell, I encourage them to bring this stuff back. If it sells, good. If it flops, well- we all know the difference between spenders and keyboarders that play Dawn of War.

Jesus, just make the stuff already and move on, GW.

You might have more of a point if they did not specifically put up a SOB clock as well. That's not going to get ignored is it? Its either trolling or generating hope for a release on the back of the success of St C.

Repeatedly having whining about people talking about sisters can be equally tiring. But hey Haters gonna Hate,

Looking forward to seeing what they do with the Squats myself.

 Mr Morden wrote:
You might have more of a point if they did not specifically put up a SOB clock as well. That's not going to get ignored is it? Its either trolling or generating hope for a release on the back of the success of St C.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes a joke is just a joke.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What about this is at my expense?

Oh I thought I was one of the folk you were referring to with the "totally missing the humour" remark earlier, because I've expressed dislike for GW's "lulz" troll-marketing before. If not apologies.

 The Green one wrote:
First of all that video they put out is amazing, I like that GW seems to be taking themselves less seriously. A squat character is also great to add to necromunda. They can prod the waters for similair models and I hope that they will eventually develop the deminurg into the new space dwarfs, which they have been refered to as the fluff. This partly was their reason for existing (as a way to reintroduce space dwarfs) and it will also be great to give other factions (tau) a sub faction instead of giving the Imperium yet another sub faction.

I know we're talking a long time in the future (well, a couple of years), but I think Necromunda slowly evolving into a Microcosm Rogue Trader could be fun. Get all the small scale craziness that 40k itself no longer includes in it's galaxy shaking scope.

To be honest I wish they would actually bring out a FAQ for the game as a priority.

 admironheart wrote:


So with all of this it is almost impossible to think there are no squat forces left. There were far more Squats than Marines.
Hard to imagine that any ONE tyranid fleet could take on all the Marines at once.....Because the forces of the Squats were at least that equal in power.

And instead of the stupid ritual Ad Mech forces....we can have some actual thinking and intelligent and modern-relatable race of the Squats. They would be the closest to our earth.....they don't believe in a load of mumble jumble like most of the imperium...they actually use their brains.

They would have the best tech outside of Necrons and Eldar.
Anything the Imperium has they would have it better!

oh the possibilities....even for a few Homeworlds and some exiled Pirate Fleets....would be enough for 40k gamers.

Wouldn't that undermine the overall theme of the imperium being constantly on the decline and in peril, and run the risk of squats being mary sues? I mean, if they had tech and a military that could outstrip the imperium's, what's the point of having an imperium? What's the point of having marines, who play a big part in the lore, being figurative grandsons of the emperor? Its actually in the best interest of the setting that squats be kept weak.
I mean, people bitch about marines having plot armor all the time, but suddenly its ok for squats to have it? What?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aesthete wrote:
The fluff arguments against Squats returning are pretty shallow... all you need is "a previously unmentioned set of colonies in a different part of the galaxy was cut off due to warp storms, but now they have returned."

That doesn't mean that I think Squats will come back as an army (though I wouldn't mind). I don't think they will. But fluff will have nothing to do with that.

Oh yes, because retcons all always welcome and don't damage the setting's integrity and aren't a bitch to keep track of at all
Might as well bring back zoats. "They weren't dead, they were just cleaning the hive ship, promise!"