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 AduroT wrote:
Yeah, definitely some rules/options missing from the acolytes at the very least.

Also did you notice the bonesword and rock saw have an accuracy of “1”? Not -1 or +1, just 1.

Guessing bonesword +1 and saw -1. But yeah.

angryboy2k wrote:
I'm still really happy. The figs I got in Overkill are now usable in four different games.

That's how I look at it.

Dear God, Forge World. HIRE A PROOF READER! Or at least rent one. This is moving past the point of self parody.

So what's the current consensus on Necromunda? I have resisted buying it so far. I'm keen to do skirmish gaming in 40K but can currently do that with SW:A. I love Genestealer Cultists and had been planning on picking up this month's WD and also the base game... but I'm somewhat put off.

Do I...

1) Buy all the existing Necromunda17 stuff and try to puzzle out what it all means.

2) Just play SW: A instead.

3) Just buy the core box and this month's WD and have three gangs.

4) Wait a year or two till they release a rules compilation.

5) Wait, possibly forever, till they release a rules compilation that doesn't immediately need twenty pages of errata.

The number of errors is starting to gets really annoying.

I'm not even sure an errata would solve the issue, I think we're screwed till the compilation comes out

It's fun to play, but the constant errors just drag it down, which is disappointing because at it's core it's pretty good but there's several things that keep it "average"

At the moment I'm intending to wait until they produce some sort of errata document before I buy anything else for Necromunda. Whether that resolve will last the distance is unclear.

They may produce a rules compilation in a year or so but, there's no guarantee that it'll be error free either.

The core rules of the game are mostly sound, so buy it if you fancy playing the cultists.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
So what's the current consensus on Necromunda? I have resisted buying it so far. I'm keen to do skirmish gaming in 40K but can currently do that with SW:A. I love Genestealer Cultists and had been planning on picking up this month's WD and also the base game... but I'm somewhat put off.

Do I...

1) Buy all the existing Necromunda17 stuff and try to puzzle out what it all means.

2) Just play SW: A instead.

3) Just buy the core box and this month's WD and have three gangs.

4) Wait a year or two till they release a rules compilation.

5) Wait, possibly forever, till they release a rules compilation that doesn't immediately need twenty pages of errata.

My advice would be the following:
If you like Necromunda a lot then go over to yaktribe and see how they solved all the issues with the rules. GW is just not capable of writing a good ruleset and will not even correct former mistakes in their current new publication (GW2). Even the few GSC rules in the future WD are not free of any errors.

Otherwise don´t bother with it. The rules are akin to a carpet riddled with holes and GW is selling this item at a premium price.

35$ CAD for a small book that feel cheaps and is filled with errors is not exactly a great buy.

I'm a necro fanatic, so I'll continue to support the game, but GW really needs to up their game if they want this to succeed.

Ian Sturrock wrote:
Do I...

1) Buy all the existing Necromunda17 stuff and try to puzzle out what it all means.

2) Just play SW: A instead.

3) Just buy the core box and this month's WD and have three gangs.

4) Wait a year or two till they release a rules compilation.

5) Wait, possibly forever, till they release a rules compilation that doesn't immediately need twenty pages of errata.

There's been fan projects to get the rules issues sorted out and make something like a fan made necromunda rules transcript already. I think there's a thread about it in the necromunda sub reddit somewhere If not google search.

The game play rocks. At first I was put off by the 2d zone mortalis thing and having to pay extra for the campaign rules and 3d terrain rules, but now I prefer the zone mortalis way of playing.

The gameplay is great... it’s just obscured by 1) very poorly laid out rules (even just within the core rules) 2) split into several different books 3) with poor quality control. It’s a shame because the actual game and the models are brilliant.

Do they not have digital versions of the books up for sale?

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
So what's the current consensus on Necromunda? I have resisted buying it so far. I'm keen to do skirmish gaming in 40K but can currently do that with SW:A. I love Genestealer Cultists and had been planning on picking up this month's WD and also the base game... but I'm somewhat put off.

If you pay attention to the internet, there's a LOT of griping about a comparatively small number of issues. Campaigns, admittedly, are kind of a mess, but the ruleset appears to have been written for skirmishes primarily. N17, as it's called on YakTribe, is not a game for tournaments, but it plays really well among friends and reasonable gamers out to have a good time.

Over time, the campaign situation will improve as the community comes up with "patches" and "mods" for the most problematic parts. There's already a project to create a handbook of sorts for campaigns, but it's effectively on pause until the FAQ finally drops and players gain more experience with the game.

Yeah, the mistakes are annoying - the game is still fun though.

Do we have any inkling about when the weapon packs will be coming out?

FerociousBeast wrote:
N17, as it's called on YakTribe, is not a game for tournaments, but it plays really well among friends and reasonable gamers out to have a good time.

Necromunda has always been about that.

FerociousBeast wrote:
Over time, the campaign situation will improve as the community comes up with "patches" and "mods" for the most problematic parts.

I don't want the 'community' to fix the rules. I want the rules to be fixed prior to release. These sorts of mistakes (just missing rules FFS) are obvious.

FerociousBeast wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
So what's the current consensus on Necromunda? I have resisted buying it so far. I'm keen to do skirmish gaming in 40K but can currently do that with SW:A. I love Genestealer Cultists and had been planning on picking up this month's WD and also the base game... but I'm somewhat put off.

If you pay attention to the internet, there's a LOT of griping about a comparatively small number of issues. Campaigns, admittedly, are kind of a mess, but the ruleset appears to have been written for skirmishes primarily. N17, as it's called on YakTribe, is not a game for tournaments, but it plays really well among friends and reasonable gamers out to have a good time.

Over time, the campaign situation will improve as the community comes up with "patches" and "mods" for the most problematic parts. There's already a project to create a handbook of sorts for campaigns, but it's effectively on pause until the FAQ finally drops and players gain more experience with the game.

Yeah, while fewer issues would be better, I'm less inclined to get bothered by them with NM since it's a game that's going to be played within existing groups. Mordheim was pretty solid overall, but had its issues and imbalances. So our group simply houseruled them, and we had fun with that game for years. NM has a very different audience than Shadespire, or even Blood Bowl.

Also, things like boneswords and saws are even less aggravating to me just because the intent is so clear (+1, -1).

Still, even though it's FW (who doesn't like to do the FAQ thing), I'm sure we'll get answers for a lot of things soon enough since the game is sold through GW.

All these errors and uselessly slow release dates prove to me that GW treats this as nothing more than "quick nostalgia bucks". Pretty sad considering Necromunda was a legit opportunity to make a decent game. Only GW can get so much sympathy for utterly failing on a reboot.

I

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
So what's the current consensus on Necromunda? I have resisted buying it so far. I'm keen to do skirmish gaming in 40K but can currently do that with SW:A. I love Genestealer Cultists and had been planning on picking up this month's WD and also the base game... but I'm somewhat put off.

Do I...

1) Buy all the existing Necromunda17 stuff and try to puzzle out what it all means.

2) Just play SW: A instead.

3) Just buy the core box and this month's WD and have three gangs.

4) Wait a year or two till they release a rules compilation.

5) Wait, possibly forever, till they release a rules compilation that doesn't immediately need twenty pages of errata.

Honestly any of your options are there for you. Personally, if you have Veteran players, you can work out the hiccups. Necromunda has been and always will be a players game. Rules are available online, and other people have said, the issues break down in the Proofreading/ playtesting. You can do well by just playing, finding your specific issues, and making a list of the ones you come across.

I really don't get the folks who give a free pass on the rules issues... the ones who say 'fix it yourself'.

First, please PM your emails, I want you as clients lol.

Second, whether or not some (but not all) can easily fix them is irrelevant, the point is whether you should be put in that position by a product you just shelled out for. The answer is no. Even if you don't mind, the answer is still no. Any business, employee, customer (hell even friends) anyone bearing any responsibility to hold up part of a deal/exchange with clear terms doesn't get a free pass, they are expected to hold up their end. Big deal or not. You can as an individual decide you don't care, but it is ludicrous to expect the mass of other customers to accede to your take on it and have no recourse to their own opinion.

Some people wouldn't have an easy time 'fixing' the rules themselves. Some people don't want to. Their right to expect what was promised, the terms of the deal, trumps your right to be ambivalent at being screwed, however minor it may be.

lol, sure, a few people missing one leg might not mind they only got one shoe in the box that was supposed to have a pair in it, but it is patently ridiculous for the one footed to say the two footed should just suck it up lol.

I personally am relying on Dakka, Yaktribe and Reddit posts to find my 'fixes'. I can deal with it. Still think N17 is a solid, fun game. I would never tell others they didn't have the right to be upset at this undeniably poor editing and community contact regarding FAQs.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I really don't get the folks who give a free pass on the rules issues... the ones who say 'fix it yourself'.

First, please PM your emails, I want you as clients lol.

Second, whether or not some (but not all) can easily fix them is irrelevant, the point is whether you should be put in that position by a product you just shelled out for. The answer is no. Even if you don't mind, the answer is still no. Any business, and employee, anyone bearing any responsibility to hold up part of a deal doesn't get a free pass, they are expected to hold up their end. Big deal or not. You can as an individual decide you don't care, but it is ludicrous to expect the mass of other customers to accede to your take on it and have no recourse to their own opinion.

Some people wouldn't have an easy time 'fixing' the rules themselves. Some people don't want to. Their right to expect more trumps your right to be ambivalent.

lol, sure, a few people missing one leg might not mind they only got one shoe in the box that was supposed to have a pair in it, but it is patently ridiculous for the one footed to say the two footed should just suck it up lol.

I personally am relying on Dakka, Yaktribe and Reddit posts to find my 'fixes'. I can deal with it. Still think N17 is a solid, fun game. I would never tell others they didn't have the right to be upset at this undeniably poor editing and community contact regarding FAQs.

At first, I thought that you were serious...

The game is easily adaptable with a conversation if the issues are THAT pronounced, and game group common sense comes to the table with either a vote, a note, or easy discussion. Honestly I have not found an issue yet that a consensus between the group could deal with. There is no reason for someone to be so anal retentive that they have to write EVERY little nuance down, especially on a game like Necromunda, where you individualize each fighter, and make your own victories on what your gangs bring to the table.

Necromunda has always had issues, from the fabled Sustained fire in Overwatch, to the skill list, to the expansions AFTER a gang evolves to the point of well past a full on squad of Veteran Space marines. As a Player, you develop a game tempo depending on your group. Necromunda has always been a players game. If you come across something Wonkey, you deal with it, make a note, and drive on.

"Are there issues with the Proofreading", is a basic question, and the answer is yeah, there are issues, but if you are going to make that a hang up, obviously you haven't played GW games before. You handle it by writing down the issue, sending it back in to the company, or making it known to other players, so it gets attention. 3rd Arm- I recommend ignoring it, and playing as is. "Of course you have a 3rd arm, Go ahead and use the Scavey rules for 3rd arm." You have to remember, Back in the beginning, we all had to write our own rules for units and figures. As to complaining about price- We'll just go ahead and say NO. You can either pay the price, and get what you get, or don't.

I have yet to see a perfect GW game, with all rules squared away, all misspellings, all issues accounted for as far as game mechanics, weapons, and structure. Until then, you do what everyone does and play with what you have, make a note of it, and deal with it.

I was being serious. Your position is untenable, as it is based on the idea that everyone must think as you do in order to be valid. As mentioned, I actually agree with your overall personally. But that's not the point. The point is that although you and I may be able to get around it easily enough, some have a harder time, some are 'anal retentive' about the rules and that's how they like it, some just don't want to. Their positions are just as valid as ours, and their lack of acceptance of GW's plainly lackluster edit and FAQ process is also entirely valid.

You know that not everyone feels the exact same way as you do about it... right?

The game should be 100% playable without having players resort to "fixing" it themselves. Time and time again it seems like only GW gets a free pass on solid game design and execution because of the nerdgasms on new models (or offering old awful looking metal models for 2x the cost).

It's pretty simple ATM I have no interest in buying N17 piecemeal.

I don't buy monthly comics anymore, I never bought a serialized novel and I won't buy this new game in quarterly installments.

Looking forward to the Necro Omnibus in 2020.

It's funny watching the community here blame GW for forgeworlds mistakes.
Wierd position to take, especially since I'm sure you all don't give GW any credit for the Horus Heresy rules.

FW messes up all the time on rules, or even just basic formatting. I'm literally doubting that many of you have opened a BRB from them. They're not always horrible, but sometimes they're pretty bad.

Necromunda's about consistent. That is to say; you all need to leverage your expectations. I'd feel different if FW didn't have a track record for this kinda stuff.
But they do. Still remember when my Blood Angel 30k dreadnoughts could take 37 Assault cannons.

Also, for those 'outraged' at the GSC cult rules, I wouldn't worry too much since these are just placeholder rules. House rule it for now, move on and enjoy the game.

Well its the specialist games team, a separate branch of FW. They are I believe the smallest team working on 40k/GW universe models. They probably work under tighter deadlines with less playtesting, editing etc. I don't feel like it should be up to me to fix what shouldn't be screwed up. Especially when i'm paying top dollar for the rules. It makes how FFG is handling the Legion ruleset seem like a godsend. A free PDF ruleset that can be updated/faq'd and can be fixed and then reuploaded..all I have to do is print it out and staple the thing together. The only hassle i'm going to endure is refilling my printer ink cartridges.

If you ask me the core Necromunda rules (underhive included) should have been free and handled just like the AoS and 40k core rules. GW/FW are failing to modernize and change with the times, and i'm not going to enable the behavior by giving them money for rules that are so poorly written. This definitely feels like a nostalgia cashgrab. They had better step up their game and I hope they get a lot of negativity in public view for this.

Neronoxx wrote:
It's funny watching the community here blame GW for forgeworlds mistakes.
Wierd position to take, especially since I'm sure you all don't give GW any credit for the Horus Heresy rules.

Who cares? A mistake is a mistake. FW is part of GW proper. The terminology used (GW or FW) makes not a lick of difference to the problems with the rules.

Neronoxx wrote:
FW messes up all the time on rules, or even just basic formatting. I'm literally doubting that many of you have opened a BRB from them. They're not always horrible, but sometimes they're pretty bad.

I own basically every Imperial Armour book ever printed. I know how good they are at producing books full of holes (Taros anyone?). Again, none of this negates the problems with Necromunda's current rules, so what exactly are you trying to say?

Neronoxx wrote:
Necromunda's about consistent. That is to say; you all need to leverage your expectations. I'd feel different if FW didn't have a track record for this kinda stuff. But they do. Still remember when my Blood Angel 30k dreadnoughts could take 37 Assault cannons.

My expectation is a complete product, fit for purpose. Showing a track record of fething it up does not give them leeway to not improve.

Neronoxx wrote:
Also, for those 'outraged' at the GSC cult rules, I wouldn't worry too much since these are just placeholder rules. House rule it for now, move on and enjoy the game.

1. We're not 'outraged', we're disappointed that yet another set of rules has come out with obvious mistakes that many of us found on our first skim read.
2. Place holder 'til what? Hive Secondus? Not good enough. These are the Necromunda Underhive Genestealer Cult rules. They are not fit for purpose on first printing. They are functionally broken in parts, and bafflingly incomplete in others.
3. As already stated 'just house rule it' is not a justification for shoddy rules writing. We shouldn't have to house rule bad rules.

Totally disappointed with how lazy this has been. N17 deserves better. It's such a good game! Had a single person other than the author tried to take the GSC article and make a gang where what they have matches their miniatures, all the issues would have been spotted.

If no one but the author even statted up a gang, should I believe it was actually playtested? The guy who wrote it playing against himself once maybe?

I love that pictures of these article pages are showing up early enough that I can decide in advance to buy or not rather than taking my chances.

Just houserule it isn't so much an excuse, obviously these things are way too frequent and things that should have been spotted easily.

It's more that if you want to play a game it's pretty easy to get them functional.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't get themselves sorted and stop embarrassing themselves with such basic errors

The way I see it is:

I want to play Necromunda. So, when something is published with errors or typos, I have a few options:
1) Don't play because the game is wrong. This is not an acceptable option.

2) Wait for an official errata. OK in the long term, but I want to play now.

3) House-rule things and play the game, and contact GW and request a correction. This is the best solution, because it involves playing games. Yes, GW should have done it right in the first place, but that's irrelevant because I can only play with what is written, not what should be.

Neronoxx wrote:
It's funny watching the community here blame GW for forgeworlds mistakes.
Wierd position to take, especially since I'm sure you all don't give GW any credit for the Horus Heresy rules.

FW messes up all the time on rules, or even just basic formatting. I'm literally doubting that many of you have opened a BRB from them. They're not always horrible, but sometimes they're pretty bad.

Necromunda's about consistent. That is to say; you all need to leverage your expectations. I'd feel different if FW didn't have a track record for this kinda stuff.
But they do. Still remember when my Blood Angel 30k dreadnoughts could take 37 Assault cannons.

Also, for those 'outraged' at the GSC cult rules, I wouldn't worry too much since these are just placeholder rules. House rule it for now, move on and enjoy the game.

I don't really care what deparment made the rules, when I blame 'GW', isn't that the label on the box and books?

What does Horus Heresy have to do with all this? What is a 'BRB'?

I played Necromunda since the 90s, stopped playing 40k 10 years ago. I came back to GW (or Forgeworld if you will) in 2016 because of Blood Bowl. Now I'm back again because of Necromunda. I pay a price which should be sufficient to get rules without these bugs. But I don't really care about the price or how many books or articles they make. As long as I don't have to make up my own rules. I don't play that many miniature games so I can afford going all in on this one.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

3) House-rule things and play the game, and contact GW and request a correction. This is the best solution, because it involves playing games. Yes, GW should have done it right in the first place, but that's irrelevant because I can only play with what is written, not what should be.

I agree, waiting is not an option for me. I buy everything, gather all rules as they are released into a single document and try to fix the missing rules, inconsistencies, unclear rules and unbalanced rules from there. While I do like to sort out inconsistencies and collect rules into a document, I don't like to change balance or make rules for missing rules. I'm not good at game design and making rules myself.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.

Why would any individuals be buying the books piecemeal when it could be considered a league/club cost instead?

Out of interest, Kan, where did they make this clear? I don't recall seeing anything around the initial release about a Compendium/Annual.

Admittedly, I could have inferred it from their (also poor) treatment of the Blood Bowl community by releasing the two Death Zone books, followed by springing an Annual on them.