Necromunda Underhive - House of Chains Pg272

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**Baxx**

Strombones wrote:
Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.

Do we have any clue what gang may be next?

Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.

**Warhams-77**

From the Warhammer TV livestream

Enentol - Yaktribe

Home sick, so I took some notes from the WarhammerTV Gang War 3 preview. I missed the first hour (thought it was GMT, not BST), but the second hour was full of info. Caught some of the battle report too.

This is the first book of the series with the two new Necromunda leads writing it. It seems to contain a ton of stuff.

Van Saars

I’m guessing they covered the Van Saar list in the first hour, cause they really didn’t talk about it much. Along with Van Saars, there's a few named characters/hired-guns including new Orlock with the cyber mastiff.

Van Saar are obviously the shooty and technological gang. They’re frail, not liking close combat – so toys to compensate. Bad initiative.

Easy access to plasma, suppression lasers (laser shotguns?!), grav weapons in house list.They said that Van Saar lasguns are better than standard – but I’m not sure how. Rad Cannon and Rad Grenades in house list as well. Rad Cannon is range 32, Blast.

New Rad-phage rule – models hit take a flesh wound regardless of the wound/injury results. Van Saar suits mean they’re immune to rad.

Brutes

Brutes are hireable, big dumb guys. They include things like Ambots and Slave Ogryns. They’re a new class of Hanger On.

The list will be greatly expanded in the future. Each gang will be getting a themed brute.

Brutes are slow, but hit hard in close combat. However, they may not always do what you want.

Pets

Pets are upgrades for leaders and champions. There are limits for how many you can take based on pet type. Eg. One guy can take up to 3 cyber mastiffs. Not sure if there’s a gang limit though – or just capped at champion limit.

Pets usually have to stay close to the model that owns them. Can't go further than 3". Some have extended ranges, like Escher Phyrr cats that can go up to 9".

Each pet has different advantages and rules. Eg. Fighters can’t be coup de grace’d when they have a cyber mastiff. Cyber mastiffs are better at detection of attackers during sentry missions. Van Saar cyberarachnid is great on terrain and has different weapon modules they can plug in.

Pets can gain limited skills. Skill lists reflect gangs they're from.

Confirmed pets in GW3: cyber mastiff, phyrr cats, sump croc, cyberarachnid, caryatid.

Caryatid is a weird cherub baby thing that is attracted to lucky gangers and makes them luckier. But, if you start to fail, it can betray you.

Trading Post

Trading post = "Crazy amount of new stuff". Contains all house weapons and all imperial weapons from 40k. Some weapons are still house-exclusive (eg. Escher chem-thrower).

Gangs can have different prices for different weapons.

Huge amount of new wargear including force fields and displacer fields.

Lots of ammo and armour types.

Servo skulls are new wargear with lots of different types that have different bonuses.

No xenos weapons "yet", but lots of stuff that hasn't been seen before on 40k battlefields.

House lists have been extended so there are more options at creation time. Eg. everyone can take heavy stubbers when they create gangs now. Not sure if this means that there is an extended “house item list” for everyone, or if it’s the whole trading post open at gang creation.

Expanded Campaign Rules

Tons of new campaign rules (think Turf War 2.0). A big expansion.

Expanded role of arbitrator
More advice and guidance on running campaigns.
Balancing mechanisms for gangs – buffs for lower gangs, challenges for better gangs.
New options for battles, campaign events.

Introduces monsters, independent gangs (gilder watchmen, or other groups with narrative roles in the scenarios)

Narrative Scenarios

A lot of new scenarios Each scenario can be played in either Zone Mortalis or Sector Mechnicus styles. Each can be played as a skirmish, campaign, or "arbitrated campaign game" (add monsters, etc.)

Last Stand: Was the Warhammer TV battle report. One gang sets up whole crew within 6” of the middle of table as defender. Attackers can start on any and all table edges. Attacker has 7 turns to wipe defenders. When an attacker model is knocked out of action, it gets recycled back on as a reinforcement. Not sure if they can bring on new models as reinforcements.

Escape the Pit: Two gangs are down in a disused part of the hive. Some ancient mechanism has come to life and the walls start to close in garbage compactor-style (or a hive section starts collapsing, etc.). Start with gangs on either side of the board and an escape point in the middle. Grab loot and get out. At the end of each turn, there’s a chance that the hive closes in. Eg. take a board tile off if playing 2D or reduce playing size by 6" if playing 3D. Gangers have a chance to scramble out of the section right before it goes.

Downtown Dustup: Two gangs have found themselves in a settlement. Both are claiming its as their own. NPC civilian hive-dwellers are scattered around the bord. They'll react to combat (behaviour table with 3? random results). Gotta keep the civilians alive and protect them to have better rewards post-mission.

Shootout: It’s back! Similar to 1st edition. Big rep rewards for holding nerve.
Caravan Heist: Great for making money. A guilder caravan moves slowly across the board and one gang has to defend it from ambushers. Can model the caravan as trucks, wagons, etc. Can kit the caravan model out with heavy stubbers, flamers, etc. for defense. “Tough nut to crack, but lots of money to be made.”

Spook Harvest: One gang fights their way into a spook-growing area. Gotta harvest as much as you can and get out. When you harvest, there’s a chance it'll mess you up. You have to roll on a table (not sure if it happens if you fail a test, or every time). Results:
Oh god oh god oh god: ganger panics, may attack his friends
It’s like the universe is in my mind: random “power”
Today, I am the emperor: “you are your ‘best self’ and you go and thrash people”

In the Dark: Gang fight, but in total darkness. “Pitch Black” rules in effect. Can see about 3”. Wargear can help you overcome (night vision goggles, etc.). Muzzle flashes (or being on fire) give you away. Horrors and monsters may lurk in the dark.

Monster Hunt: Uses tentacle terrain piece - but LOTS of them. A bounty has been placed on a monster – but you have to go flush it out first. Tentacles start to pop up as gangers get seriously injured. After you kill a certain amount, the giant monster turns up. Gang who gets killing blow gets tons of money.

Multiplayer

New rules for multiplayer games - including MP-specific scenarios.

They ran out of time, but one example was "Pit fight", where each player takes one of their champions to brawl gladiator-style.

Cronewald - Yaktribe

They said they are saving the Van Saar for a more in depth look next week. The first hour was mostly a flip though of the book. It overlapped a bit with the second hour but was still interesting.

They showed off some of the artwork and talked about where some of the ideas came from. For example, a number of the ideas for pets and brutes came from Andy's work on the FFG 40k rpgs. The Ambots use an Actual Ambull brain to skirt the no A.I. rule. The ones the gangs use have had their safety locks removed and revert to basic instincts.

One thing I found interesting was that Trish Morison sculpted the pets while her daughter, who also works for Forgeworld, did the concept art for them.

I can't remember, this may have been where they talked about status items for gang leaders. It's mostly bling like gold plated weapons and fancy clothes but with a little bit of rules attached.

So mostly background and pretty pictures, not much that's going to directly impact gameplay, but still nice to see some insight into the design process.

**BrookM**

Thanks for sharing!

**Theophony**

At this point I’m just waiting for the beta testing to be finished and the real rule book to be released. Not buying until then.

**Skinnereal**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Next weekend, the Specialist Games team are at Warhammer World for a few hours meet and greet, chit-chat-chin-wag.

We need to send a Dakkanaut. Sadly, it can’t be me, as I’ll be pissed up in a field enjoying some latex weapon related violence.

Can anyone else go?

Well, if I'm there on the 6th, and at the time anything happens, I'll try to pay attention.

**Chairman Aeon**

Trish Morrison sculpted the pets, interesting...

**kestral**

Theophony wrote:
At this point I’m just waiting for the beta testing to be finished and the real rule book to be released. Not buying until then.

Yeah, I'm sort of leaning that way too. I like what I'm hearing, but I'd like it in one, cleaned up book.

**malfred**

Baxx wrote:
Strombones wrote:
Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.

Do we have any clue what gang may be next?

Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.

Well, then they figured out how to do the terrain properly and...

**Aesthete**

Yeah I'm with the group waiting for the collected rules before I really dive in. Those scenarios sound pretty sweet tho'.

**Ronin_eX**

Aesthete wrote:
Yeah I'm with the group waiting for the collected rules before I really dive in. Those scenarios sound pretty sweet tho'.

Yup, same. Grabbing the minis in any case (because they look fantastic), but they're probably getting used for something else in the meantime. But no rules until we get an omnibus edition. I'm not carting around half a dozen rulebooks for one game and considering the number of initial errors that are still slipping through, I'd rather a single volume where everything got an editing pass after it was first released.

The actual edition itself sounds really fun and intriguing (yeah, still has balance issues, but that has always been a part of Necro and Mordheim, so I cut it some slack there because nothing has yet to beat its feeling of attachment to your gang and campaign progression), but I'm just not on board with the release pattern that will mostly just screw early adopters in the long run. On the other hand, this does mean that Necro didn't basically curl up and die after its initial surge of releases. So that's nice.

**Lord Damocles**

malfred wrote:
Well, then they figured out how to do the terrain properly and...

...re-released it as a 2D board game!

**Dryaktylus**

Chairman Aeon wrote:
Trish Morrison sculpted the pets, interesting...

As long as there're no dragons, griffons and manticores in the Underhive, I'm fine with that.

**H.B.M.C.**

Lord Damocles wrote:
malfred wrote:
Well, then they figured out how to do the terrain properly and...

...re-released it as a 2D board game!

It's not a board game.

**Strombones**

Baxx wrote:
Strombones wrote:
Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.

Do we have any clue what gang may be next?

Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.

Unfortunately I'm not content to play the 2D game out of the box. I'd rather do it properly with some of the mechanicus terrain, nothing extravagant, maybe just a 3x3 and two terrain kits.

Add all the books to that and we're sitting at an easy 400+

It's do-able for sure, and I'll definitely get to it one day as Necromunda is far too cool for me to not own. It's just a lot to commit to when I'm used to 15mm prices.

**Baxx**

In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.

Putting into one big document also helps alot.

**stormboy**

Baxx wrote:
In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.

Putting into one big document also helps alot.

It feels like the olden days where everything was scattered across WD articles and books and sometimes other books (Citadel Journals and such). Warms my heart.

**Flinty**

Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system

**Yodhrin**

Flinty wrote:
Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system

Apart from needing to pay for multiple books instead of just one, sure. One can always hoist the colours, as they say, but that's hardly a vindication of the pricing model.

stormboy wrote:
Baxx wrote:
In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.

Putting into one big document also helps alot.

It feels like the olden days where everything was scattered across WD articles and books and sometimes other books (Citadel Journals and such). Warms my heart.

You and I remember the olden days very differently. I recall buying complete, finished, reasonably coherent products and then getting extra content in the Journals etc, much it basically fan-content. When they split stuff up and passed it out in WD, it was explicitly a "here's something we're working on, let us know what you think" affair that took up a handful of pages in issues filled with other content.

**Baxx**

Yes the olden days had those complete books of all content. If you wanted some extra spice, you looked for those scattered articles.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flinty wrote:
Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system

I need everything and it takes more than 60 pages.

**Elbows**

I'm still waiting and may not play the game (though I'll grab some Cawdor). I think it's telling that no one in my 40K group locally has bought into Necromunda, despite being dozens and dozens of players.

The few who mentioned being interested are put off (as I am) by the release model, lack of gangs, use of Forgeworld, resin, etc. It stalled the group I was going to play it with in two other locales as well. Shame.

**Irbis**

Is it me or no one here actually read Van Saar GW blurb?

I was very excited for them but this manure basically poured a bucket of cold water on it:

- 2 each of 5 body designs, each wearing armoured bodygloves, which can be assembled in 2 recommended ways:
- Body 1 can be armed with a lasgun and power knife, or a suppression laser
- Body 2 can be armed with a plasma gun and shock stave, or a rad cannon;
- Body 3 can be armed with a lascarbine or a lasgun
- Body 4 can be armed with a combi weapon (lasgun/melta) and Hrystrar pattern energy shield, or a lasgun
- Body 5 can be armed with 2 plasma pistols, or 2 laspistols;
- 20 heads – 12 bare, 8 helmeted – which can be attached to any body you wish;

What do we see here? Only 5 poses, and what's even worse, each of these can only have two weapon loadouts. You bought second box? Congrats, now enjoy having 4 clones of each mini, 2 exactly identical pairs to boot. Not enough helmets for full 10, but you get pile of gratis junk virtually identical bare heads that go against Van Saar fluff (or attempts to fielding them as say IG/Tempestus counts as). To make matters worse, unlike the other gangs who came with pile of weapons and arms for converting, these not only don't come with extra arms (so you're SOL if you don't want dual pistols or want body #2 to have more practical loadout) but the guns come in halves, stocks being welded to hands of tiny amount of arms you have, so you can't even give the spare guns to your other armies to have neat relic weapon or fix two impaired Van Saar minis.

What we got, on the other hand, is wasting 1/4 of sprue on dumb ponytails and collar cables, because no one would want stuff like extra weapons, arms, or hell, even 2-3 more female chest pieces (so you could actually customize the ratio in your gang and maybe make some non-clones) instead, eh?

This release is huge step back compared to first 3 gangs, sprue-wise, and I am honestly puzzled how you can fit lots of customization for much bigger Goliaths but so under-deliver here. Killing one of main selling points of Van Saar design, cool guns and gear you could (had someone more competent made these sprues) use in conversions...

**ImAGeek**

Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).

**Hekal Xul**

ImAGeek wrote:
Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).

Exactly,
For me so many drawcards with this set :
-20K aesthetic that can be used elsewhere such as carapace and las 30k Militia Grenadiers/ Skitarii from a non-steampunk Forgeworld...
-All the limbs are separate which is an obvious improvement on previous releases. Opportunities for further customization way past what you could do with the -Eschers/Goliaths/Orlocks are there if you put a little effort and imagination into it
-Modular weapon idea so most arm sets aren't a fixed combo and there's spare barrels w/out hands and stocks with just hands and forearms to add more possibilities.
Will be interesting to see FW's approach to further weapon upgrades (pack of barrels?).
-Enough helmets for the whole unit +
-Male and female option parts

**Scott-S6**

ImAGeek wrote:
Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).

There's no place for that talk. He's looking for something to be outraged about, damn-it!

**Captyn_Bob**

Some gw3 stuff dropping on fb.

Van saar ganger . M4 i5+ T3 bs3+ 65 creds base
Leader/champ bs2+
6+ armour but can be combined like the undersuit (possibly with the undersuit)
Again quite unique stats. Interesting stuff.

**Baxx**

Bounty Hunters are out. No weapon profile inconsistencies this time, mainly because there are no weapon profiles

**Theophony**

Baxx wrote:
Bounty Hunters are out. No weapon profile inconsistencies this time, mainly because there are no weapon profiles

Doesn’t that mean their weapons do nothing, which is another inconsistency

**Baxx**

Hahaha that would make for a fun game. Your opponent just collected a bunch of cool minis and then say that.

I think the timing was well planned for the bounty hunter because they will benefit greatly from the new Trading Post in GW3 and suffer under the old and very limited one in GW1.

**ImAGeek**

Ambot pic:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiSO0HpjVYG/

**Kid_Kyoto**

ImAGeek wrote:
Ambot pic:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiSO0HpjVYG/

Instagram, so annoying.