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kingheff wrote:
Our most competitive units are probably dark reapers, hemlock wraith fighters, shining spears and fire prisms. It kind of depends on how you want to play the army.

Agreed. With Alaitoc as the most competitive Craftworld trait.

 Karhedron wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Our most competitive units are probably dark reapers, hemlock wraith fighters, shining spears and fire prisms. It kind of depends on how you want to play the army.

Agreed. With Alaitoc as the most competitive Craftworld trait.

Plus we have great psychic powers that work as great buffs/debuffs.

Don't forget the venerable doom/jinx warlock/spiritseer/farseer or warlock skyrunner/farseer skyrunner combo. Autarchs are fun but eldar psychic is just way too good. Eldrad is also a beast. Also Wave Serpents are ridiculously good at their job in a list that requires a "feels unkillable for the points" troop delivery system.

How do you equip your Autarchs? I'm planning to convert the Swooping Hawk Wing variant into the one from DoW2, but I'm not quite sure how to equip her.

Fusion Gun would be true to the game, but the reaper launcher looks just so much stronger, even though it's a heavy weapon which is a bit counter intuitive on such a mobile character (BS2+ helps though).

Also, the new reserve rules kind of nerfed the Autarch, didn't they?

BertBert wrote:
How do you equip your Autarchs? I'm planning to convert the Swooping Hawk Wing variant into the one from DoW2, but I'm not quite sure how to equip her.

Fusion Gun would be true to the game, but the reaper launcher looks just so much stronger, even though it's a heavy weapon which is a bit counter intuitive on such a mobile character (BS2+ helps though).

Also, the new reserve rules kind of nerfed the Autarch, didn't they?

Have been trying to run a Saim-hann Windrunner autarch with Reaper Launcher and Mark of the Incomparable Hunter. So far he has never made himself worth the effort. At this point I'd rather recommend a Lance Autarch to charge with Shining Spears or as a buff bot jumping between places(Wings or Windrunner).

I often run my swooping hawk wing autarch with the reaper launcher, fusion pistol and shard of anaris power sword. The fusion pistol is nice because he can even snipe in melee. If you can find a enemy character without an invulnerable save he can be quite vicious.
The only time I tend to use something different is if I run as Biel tan and I use the natural leader trait for his guide type buff.

Hunter Rocket Autarchs are highly variable depending on what your opponent brings. Something like Guard or Orks who have (relatively) squishy infantry characters that they rely on are made for that build, but against stuff like Custodes, Marines or Demons where the characters are intensely beefy they're much less impactful.

Don't forget the venerable doom/jinx warlock/spiritseer/farseer or warlock skyrunner/farseer skyrunner combo

Can you explain?

Run doom on a farseer and jinx on a warlock or spiritseer. Hit any target with both spells and watch it melt under fire. Take the skyrunner versions for extra mobility.

BertBert wrote:
How do you equip your Autarchs? I'm planning to convert the Swooping Hawk Wing variant into the one from DoW2, but I'm not quite sure how to equip her.

I went for Jetbike, Lance and Banshee mask along with Fate's Messenger for an extra wound and a 6+++. Mostly he is a buff character using his mobility to apply his rerolls wherever they are required but if the situation call for it, he is quite capable of taking on characters and small squads by himself or pitching alongside a Wraithlord to negate overwatch and take down bigger prey.

While not as exciting as another Psyker, he can buff several squads with careful positioning, he cannot be denied and he is much punchier in combat. The ability to recycle CPs on a 6+ is handy as well since we are a fairly Stratagem-hungry army.

"As for Jinx, its Warp Charge 7, which means it will only go off 50% of the time."

58.3%

zerosignal wrote:
"As for Jinx, its Warp Charge 7, which means it will only go off 50% of the time."

58.3%

Don't forget the Command re-roll. I'd bet that ups the chances quite a bit. It does for me at least, using it to reroll the lowest of the 2 dice.

-

 Galef wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
"As for Jinx, its Warp Charge 7, which means it will only go off 50% of the time."

58.3%

Don't forget the Command re-roll. I'd bet that ups the chances quite a bit. It does for me at least, using it to reroll the lowest of the 2 dice.

-

Jinx is still Warp Charge 7 and only goes off 50% of the time statistically. Sure, one can improve the chances slightly (assuming you have the CP or haven't spent a CP to perform a re-roll already that phase). Don't treat warlocks like they are Farseers and have built in free re-roll options. There is a cost to that re-roll both in terms of CP and the limiting of the option to use that CP elsewhere.

Jinx will up your effective damage by a whopping 50% when used on a target with a 3++. I'd say that's worth investing some significant resources into.

Spartacus wrote:
Jinx will up your effective damage by a whopping 50% when used on a target with a 3++. I'd say that's worth investing some significant resources into.

I never suggested investing resources into Jinx had no worth. I am merely trying to state that its effectiveness (i.e. the ability to reduce saving throws) is not a foregone conclusion like many people think. There are drawbacks and risks to its usage.
- About half of the time, it will require a CP to be manifested
- At an 18" range, it requires maneuvering to ensure the Psyker casting it has range, possibly putting the Psyker in denial range, and almost certainly putting said Psyker in a position to be shot/charged the next turn
Sure additional Stratagems can be used to bolster the chances for success, but those come with other requirements themselves (e.g. Having a Farseer near the Warlock to for the +1 or taking a Conclave to double the range). When it goes off, it is a great power, but the player base should not pretend that it is going off 100% of the time.

 mokoshkana wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Jinx will up your effective damage by a whopping 50% when used on a target with a 3++. I'd say that's worth investing some significant resources into.

I never suggested investing resources into Jinx had no worth. I am merely trying to state that its effectiveness (i.e. the ability to reduce saving throws) is not a foregone conclusion like many people think. There are drawbacks and risks to its usage.
- About half of the time, it will require a CP to be manifested
- At an 18" range, it requires maneuvering to ensure the Psyker casting it has range, possibly putting the Psyker in denial range, and almost certainly putting said Psyker in a position to be shot/charged the next turn
Sure additional Stratagems can be used to bolster the chances for success, but those come with other requirements themselves (e.g. Having a Farseer near the Warlock to for the +1 or taking a Conclave to double the range). When it goes off, it is a great power, but the player base should not pretend that it is going off 100% of the time.

No need to defend yourself, no one is disagreeing with you. Its a psychic power so its not 100% reliable, same with Doom. No one ever claimed that it was.

 mokoshkana wrote:
Don't treat warlocks like they are Farseers and have built in free re-roll options. There is a cost to that re-roll both in terms of CP and the limiting of the option to use that CP elsewhere.

Although since Farseers DO have built-in rerolls, one could cast with them first and then any Warlocks and thus have the Command reroll readily available for that phase.
Jinx has been well worth that particular investment in every game I've played so far. as I use it in conjunction with my Hemlocks that can move within range of a Character (after removing any bubble wrap of course) cast Jinx and remove said Character in the shooting phase.
It's also vital to take out Knights.

I will note that you should only attempt to reroll 1s or 2s and only if the other dice is a 4 or 5. Otherwise, you are probably wasting a CP

-

Hopefully you guys don't mind me interjecting with a few questions; How good are the FW Shadow Spectres outside of being pretty models? They seem like really maneuverable MEQ killers but they're quite pricey in terms of points and they seem to be in competition with Shining Spears. They do have an interesting gimmick of additional hits with shooting so what are people's thoughts on them?

Then just a quick question for Banshees and Scorpions: are they worth playing?

 Galef wrote:
Don't forget the Command re-roll. I'd bet that ups the chances quite a bit. It does for me at least, using it to reroll the lowest of the 2 dice.

 Galef wrote:
I will note that you should only attempt to reroll 1s or 2s and only if the other dice is a 4 or 5. Otherwise, you are probably wasting a CP

Unfortunately, you cannot do that:

WH40k Rulebook Errata wrote:Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

Now, using "Runes of the Farseer" to reroll a dice is ok - but not the CP stratagem.

Am i the only one that takes the Relic Spirit Stone for the Warlock?

hvg3akaek wrote:


Unfortunately, you cannot do that:

WH40k Rulebook Errata wrote:Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

Now, using "Runes of the Farseer" to reroll a dice is ok - but not the CP stratagem.

The CP re-roll stratagem doesn't tell you to re-roll a 'result', it specifically says "You can re-roll any single dice".

The above FaQ doesn't apply. Where it would apply is something like the Biel-tan spirit stone relic that Amish mentioned, which allows you to re-roll a failed psychic test. In that case, you'd need to re-roll ALL (both) the dice.

Really? Interesting...I'm going to have to have a word with some of my local fellow players, then!

What is currently the best way to field a potentially wraith-heavy list?

I already have:
10x Wraithguard - Cannon or Scythes? 2x5 in serpents or 1x10 in webway?

Considering adding:
a unit of Wraithblades - what size, and how it best to loadout and field them? Serpents again?

I'd only be running 2 serpents more than likely, maybe 3 at a pinch, so minimising the need for serpents would be best.

Getting your opponent to shoot at Serpents with Spirit Stones and vectored engines is a great way to castrate their shooting. If there is one thing that will force your enemy to aim at your Serpents, its a hold full of Wraithmen with D Weapons (people still have terrifying nightmares of 7th Ed. Wraithguard).

Cannons vs Scythes really depends on your opponents army unfortunately, hard to make a call for a TAC list. Id say if you're likely to be charged by opponents who can actually damage you (i.e. not just smothered by screening trash), the Scythes are worth the extra 10ppm.

Obviously if you Webway them, cannons all the way.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Hopefully you guys don't mind me interjecting with a few questions; How good are the FW Shadow Spectres outside of being pretty models? They seem like really maneuverable MEQ killers but they're quite pricey in terms of points and they seem to be in competition with Shining Spears. They do have an interesting gimmick of additional hits with shooting so what are people's thoughts on them?

Then just a quick question for Banshees and Scorpions: are they worth playing?

Shadow spectres are decent, good at taking down infantry but a bit expensive and fragile, they require careful use but are dangerous. They're hard hitting skirmishers, at least that's the way I see them.
I like banshees, more as a disruptive unit usually, unless you're fighting guard or something equally squishy, they're great for charging things with flamers etc or to shut down a tank. I usually run a squad of seven in a wave serpent with five fire dragons. The dragons jump out and shoot whilst the banshees charge in to either shut down whatever the dragons shot at or to prevent a counter attack via charge or gunfire.
Scorpions seem best used in a shooting army, I've run a couple of squads in an alaitoc gunline list and they're handy for popping up on objectives in later turns. They don't do a lot offensively but with a 2+ save in cover they can take a bit of shifting.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Galef wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
"As for Jinx, its Warp Charge 7, which means it will only go off 50% of the time."

58.3%

Don't forget the Command re-roll. I'd bet that ups the chances quite a bit. It does for me at least, using it to reroll the lowest of the 2 dice.

-

Jinx is still Warp Charge 7 and only goes off 50% of the time statistically. Sure, one can improve the chances slightly (assuming you have the CP or haven't spent a CP to perform a re-roll already that phase). Don't treat warlocks like they are Farseers and have built in free re-roll options. There is a cost to that re-roll both in terms of CP and the limiting of the option to use that CP elsewhere.

On 2D6, Jinx has a 57.1429% chance of going off without any re-rolls of any kind. This is because there is 21 different 2d6 outcomes, and 12 of them = 7+.

The Biel-Tan relic is very very useful for casting those critical powers, but, I feel it only works in certain lists or Ynnari. I personally much prefer to use the +1 to cast stratagem when a Farseer and Warlock are within 6” of each other. This essentially gives you a 71.428% chance of casting Jinx without a re-roll.

As for Wraiths, I just wish most of the units weren’t so damn expensive!

So I'm not sure if it works as a concept, but the kind of thing I'm considering (very rough draft) -

Battallion (Craftworld)

Farseer Skyrunner
Warlock Skyrunner
Warlock Skyrunner

3x5man Ranger Squads

5x Wraithguard with Wraithcannon (in webway)

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes (in wave serpent)


Outrider (Harlequin)

Troupe Master
5x Troupe (4x Fusion Pistols, 1x Shuriken pistol, 4x Embrace, 1x Blade)
Starweaver

2x Skyweaver (2xHaywire, 2xZephyrglaive)
2x Skyweaver (2xHaywire, 2xZephyrglaive)
2x Skyweaver (2xHaywire, 2xZephyrglaive)



Only adds up to 1762 points so there's room for more to round it out to 2000, not sure what yet.

I considered shining spears instead of skyweavers, as they'd have better synergy with the warlock powers. But skyweavers seem to be better, and the warlocks can still use their Jinx and Drain to help the skyrunners murder things and stay alive. The Protect and Enhance parts of their powers can be aimed at wraithguard units if they're nearby, or somehting else I could add to the list with the remaining 200 points.

Very few drops though, very elite list, not sure it'll work but seems like it might be fun to make.

Edit: Actually only 1660 points, as I forgot my version on the list actually has a solitaire in it as well (because well they're pretty cool), but not sure it's worth having a solitaire on the table in this style of list. [

I think you're better off running the outrider detachment as Ynnari and dropping the troupe. I don't think the skyweavers rely on Rising Crescendo and the masque abilities as much as the other harlequin units do. Then you could take the points saved from the TM/troupe/starweaver and put them into increasing one or two of the Skyweaver squads. Equip them with Haywire Cannons, add doom, and now you have a really potent anti vehicle list. Yvraine can go into the Wave Serpent as well, which is a bonus.

 mokoshkana wrote:
I think you're better off running the outrider detachment as Ynnari and dropping the troupe. I don't think the skyweavers rely on Rising Crescendo and the masque abilities as much as the other harlequin units do. Then you could take the points saved from the TM/troupe/starweaver and put them into increasing one or two of the Skyweaver squads. Equip them with Haywire Cannons, add doom, and now you have a really potent anti vehicle list. Yvraine can go into the Wave Serpent as well, which is a bonus.

I had the fusion troupe as an open-topped driveby shooting unit, though the skyweavers also do a similar role I guess, and it would certainly be a saving in points.

In which case, is it also worth changing the wraithguard detachment into being Ynnari as well, so that Yvraine can buff them with her spells? The alternative would be Iyanden/Ulthwe

Niiru wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
I think you're better off running the outrider detachment as Ynnari and dropping the troupe. I don't think the skyweavers rely on Rising Crescendo and the masque abilities as much as the other harlequin units do. Then you could take the points saved from the TM/troupe/starweaver and put them into increasing one or two of the Skyweaver squads. Equip them with Haywire Cannons, add doom, and now you have a really potent anti vehicle list. Yvraine can go into the Wave Serpent as well, which is a bonus.

I had the fusion troupe as an open-topped driveby shooting unit, though the skyweavers also do a similar role I guess, and it would certainly be a saving in points.

In which case, is it also worth changing the wraithguard detachment into being Ynnari as well, so that Yvraine can buff them with her spells? The alternative would be Iyanden/Ulthwe

Yeah, that makes sense. while fusion pistols in star weavers are cool, they only really work as soaring spite as you'll need the extra 6" range from advance to ensure you get into pistol range. Compare that against a 40" range that also does pretty well against horde armies too, and the answer is pretty simple.