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Hey guys i've wrote a list in dire need of your opinion

Here

The list is fine, with the exception of the Falcons

Oh no that was my selling point i just finished mounting an painting them D:

Looks a bit light on anti infantry. You have loads of anti tank. You could go with Star Cannons on the Hunters and Falcons which would save some points. You'd then have tanks and heavy infantry covered pretty well, but still might have problems with hordes.

Yeah but each of the Dark Reaper's exarch has the tempest (2D6) and i have the AML 1D6.

I thought it was more than enough to keep hordes at bay

The tempest launcher might be worth it and I'm even considering it for the Exarch in my Reaper squad as that's what he's modeled with.

Changing the tack slightly, but I have a game on Thursday (2000 points, ITC) against Tau and I was going to go for a Biel-Tan main battalion. More to the point, I was going to try out a max squad of Banshees to put in the hurt in close combat against some fish people. The denial of overwatch would be pretty major and the access to the Biel-Tan stratagem to get 3" extra on the charge with combat re-rolls seems pretty tasty if I can get them that far. Terrain would be pretty dense but I was considering sticking them in a serpent and pushing them up the board or running up as they have a pretty massive movement phase.

I agree the tempest is a good weapon..

Regarding the Banshee i don't use them regularly mainly because they need a lot of psychic support during the fight phase.

Hitting isn't an issue wounding is even facing a unit with toughness 3 is a problem, wounding on 4's is not ideal at all

Hey guys, does anyone take 2x20 guardian squads? I mean with a doom, and dropping out of a webway, they can take almost anything out in the game in theory.

 Elian wrote:

Regarding the Banshee i don't use them regularly mainly because they need a lot of psychic support during the fight phase.

Hitting isn't an issue wounding is even facing a unit with toughness 3 is a problem, wounding on 4's is not ideal at all

Banshees are disruptor units, not killy units. Denial of overwatch is massive against gunline armies.

Add 2x5 girls in separate Serpents, Tau really like this. You can also run Jain Zar, she can even deploy without WS due to her Character rule. And an Autarch on bike with no-overwatch, mask or warlord trait.

Hey guys, does anyone take 2x20 guardian squads? I mean with a doom, and dropping out of a webway, they can take almost anything out in the game in theory.

Mostly anything not T8.

Also you want Jinx, then they are really a bane of units relying on good saves/invuls.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Add 2x5 girls in separate Serpents, Tau really like this. You can also run Jain Zar, she can even deploy without WS due to her Character rule. And an Autarch on bike with no-overwatch, mask or warlord trait.

Break the max squad into 2x 5 woman squads then? I'll be running more than two serpents anyway so it'll make sense to stick them in there. I have a Jetbike Autarch with mask to get in on the action too.

Well they're not very numerous, survivable or have large bases to take hostages, so yeah I run them like that.

sturguard wrote:
Hey guys, does anyone take 2x20 guardian squads? I mean with a doom, and dropping out of a webway, they can take almost anything out in the game in theory.

I took a blob of 20 and 10 DA and webway struck an Ork horde army and the main issue arises from the poor range of the shuriken catapult and how well your opponent can do his area of denial. The results were good, but not good enough to take them every game.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Fire prisms are amazing. Night Spinners get hard countered against so many targets in my experience, and often end up being shot against chaff, where they're a waste. I know a lot of people rate them however, and they're great against 4++ units for example. I guess it's just a meta thing.

They're good for ITC/ETC where you don't have LOS on targets and they're hideable to an extent.

I love my Fire Prisms, they always put in the work and they always make their points back.

If they're for fragging out of LoS on backfield objective holders (I agree, much needed role in ITC), then I honestly prefer heavy weapon platforms - you drop a point of damage and strength, but get 50% more shots, harder to shoot of the board, and easier to hide.

 grouchoben wrote:

If they're for fragging out of LoS on backfield objective holders (I agree, much needed role in ITC), then I honestly prefer heavy weapon platforms - you drop a point of damage and strength, but get 50% more shots, harder to shoot of the board, and easier to hide.

Support Weapons are solid as hell. Spinners can do dual duty against vehicles and monsters, but excel in hunting heavy infantry.

It all comes down to what you need them for.

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:

If they're for fragging out of LoS on backfield objective holders (I agree, much needed role in ITC), then I honestly prefer heavy weapon platforms - you drop a point of damage and strength, but get 50% more shots, harder to shoot of the board, and easier to hide.

Support Weapons are solid as hell. Spinners can do dual duty against vehicles and monsters, but excel in hunting heavy infantry.

It all comes down to what you need them for.

I rate vibro cannons..

"Every one loves the vibro cannon" DDDD

... plays the Beach Boys...

All variants of support weapons are good stuff, the D merely need some good play, and that seems hampering oneself, when CH(E) is available. The other two take up a lot of board, do good trickle damage for the points and are stirdier than their cost justifies. If i could make myself paint them, i'd order another three...

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
... plays the Beach Boys...

All variants of support weapons are good stuff, the D merely need some good play, and that seems hampering oneself, when CH(E) is available. The other two take up a lot of board, do good trickle damage for the points and are stirdier than their cost justifies. If i could make myself paint them, i'd order another three...

The D is just too expensive for its range... Migh as well get a wraithseer

Sterling191 wrote:

 Elian wrote:
4+? It is because you're not using the exarch!
Hitting on 3+ rerolling one's is just more reliable

but it requires positioning (which isnt always an option).

Another thing to note is due to the retractable wings, nightwings have even more absurd maneuverability than your regular Wings of Khaine flyer.

Extended wings mode provides +1 BS so with the built-in CTM you're hitting those bright lances on 2s. That is VERY respectable considering for 70 pts more than a hemlock you can have 2 nightwings. They are really cheap.

As a bonus they also come with a 5++ in retracted mode.

 slave.entity wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Elian wrote:
4+? It is because you're not using the exarch!
Hitting on 3+ rerolling one's is just more reliable

but it requires positioning (which isnt always an option).

Another thing to note is due to the retractable wings, nightwings have even more absurd maneuverability than your regular Wings of Khaine flyer.

Extended wings mode provides +1 BS so with the built-in CTM you're hitting those bright lances on 2s. That is VERY respectable considering for 70 pts more than a hemlock you can have 2 nightwings. They are really cheap.

As a bonus they also come with a 5++ in retracted mode.

Out of curiosity, my reading of the Nightwing 5++ save is that it is conditional upon both being in retracted wings and advancing. So it can never be used if your opponent has first turn - you cannot declare your wing profile until your movement phase - and then you must advance to gain it. However, the wording is somewhat ambiguous. What is the community take on this?

 slave.entity wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Elian wrote:
4+? It is because you're not using the exarch!
Hitting on 3+ rerolling one's is just more reliable

but it requires positioning (which isnt always an option).

Another thing to note is due to the retractable wings, nightwings have even more absurd maneuverability than your regular Wings of Khaine flyer.

Extended wings mode provides +1 BS so with the built-in CTM you're hitting those bright lances on 2s. That is VERY respectable considering for 70 pts more than a hemlock you can have 2 nightwings. They are really cheap.

As a bonus they also come with a 5++ in retracted mode.

You're hitting on 3's if you are not targeting the nearest because if you have to advance other than that i still think it is better to have a CHE

Orbei wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Elian wrote:
4+? It is because you're not using the exarch!
Hitting on 3+ rerolling one's is just more reliable

but it requires positioning (which isnt always an option).

Another thing to note is due to the retractable wings, nightwings have even more absurd maneuverability than your regular Wings of Khaine flyer.

Extended wings mode provides +1 BS so with the built-in CTM you're hitting those bright lances on 2s. That is VERY respectable considering for 70 pts more than a hemlock you can have 2 nightwings. They are really cheap.

As a bonus they also come with a 5++ in retracted mode.

Out of curiosity, my reading of the Nightwing 5++ save is that it is conditional upon both being in retracted wings and advancing. So it can never be used if your opponent has first turn - you cannot declare your wing profile until your movement phase - and then you must advance to gain it. However, the wording is somewhat ambiguous. What is the community take on this?

It says "At the start of the Movement phase, before this model is moved, the controlling player must declare...". This applies to any movement phase, including the opponent's.

The 5++ in retracted mode could also be read as unconditional. They separated the two effects with a long dash so I actually first read it as a permanent 5++ in extended mode, regardless of having advanced or not. I had to re-read it after you mentioned it but it definitely look ambiguous and can be played either way unless I'm missing an FAQ about this:

It's not a huge deal either way though. Even without the 5++ it would still basically have the durability of a hemlock on turn 1. T6, 12W 3+, -2 to hit if Alaitoc. No built in spirit stones but hey it's less than 2/3 the cost. D6 damage S8 guns with the option to hit on 2s is always decent, and the 6 shuricannon shots means they aren't completely useless at removing screen once the big threats are down.

The problem with interpreting 'the movement phase' as any movement phase is that it would allow you to switch between the two on your opponent's turn. So, you could gain the +1 to hit from extended wings in your movement phase and then switch to retracted in your opponent's, regaining hard to hit. This may be allowable in the strict RAW sense but it's pretty cheesy. When I have used the Nightwing I played it as only being able to switch in my movement phase, thus starting the game in neither, and not gaining the 5++ until after advancing. The wording is very ambiguous so I would rather play it as conservatively as possible.

Agree that it's a nice unit though, and a bargain for the points.

Yeah although RAW, because technically it doesn't say "YOUR movement phase" you could switch between phases technically I guess.

I don't think its RAI at all, and in the spirit of playing fair I personally wouldn't do it, or allow it to be played that way if I was in a position of a TO. YMMV..

Wouldn't like it, if an opponent pulled it on me in a game.
So I wouldn't do it myself.

Its not like its a bad unit in its own right....

Orbei wrote:
The problem with interpreting 'the movement phase' as any movement phase is that it would allow you to switch between the two on your opponent's turn. So, you could gain the +1 to hit from extended wings in your movement phase and then switch to retracted in your opponent's, regaining hard to hit. This may be allowable in the strict RAW sense but it's pretty cheesy.

That's pretty hilarious and cheesy and broken. Weird how they don't specify the movement phase, but do specify which player gets to decide what mode it's in. That whole rule just seems really poorly written.

The sentence is pretty straightforward with following inclination that model is then moved by a controlling player, so reading it backwards is pretty much TFG 'ing.

While "the movement phase" concerns each one, including the opponent's, the rule next states "before this model is moved". As you don't get to move your model in the opponent's phase, you don't get to swap modes. If you want to read rules to a t, you gotta go all the way, not stop where it suits you best.

Ok I buy that. But I still contend that the wording sucks and using 'before this model has moved' to specify controlling player's movement phase is really confusing and ambiguous. Who knows, maybe there is some unit that can move in the opponent's movement phase? Soulburst and Yncarne allowed for out of sequence things to happen after all. Maybe there's more? Point being, it shouldn't be up to the player to assume these things.

And how about the 5++ save in retracted mode?

I posed the question in YMDC because I was curious about other people's reading of it. The consensus seems to be that the 5++ is contingent upon advancing, which was my initial interpretation. The wording is so ambiguous that a case could be made either way, but the plane is still really good without the auto 5++ in retracted so I think playing it the conservative way is more sporting.