Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Dumb ? for the morning.
How do you get WraithGuard to shoot!
Mine never seem to make it within range of that bloody short 8"s.

example.
Unit jumps out of the webgate.
Cant shoot that turn as they are 9"s away from target.
On enemy turn unit moves 5"s or more away.
On my turn I move my 5"s.
I am still outside the bloody range!.
So to nuetur the WG all ya got to do is move 5"s away.

 tirnaog wrote:
Dumb ? for the morning.
How do you get WraithGuard to shoot!
Mine never seem to make it within range of that bloody short 8"s.

example.
Unit jumps out of the webgate.
Cant shoot that turn as they are 9"s away from target.
On enemy turn unit moves 5"s or more away.
On my turn I move my 5"s.
I am still outside the bloody range!.
So to nuetur the WG all ya got to do is move 5"s away.

Wave Serpent delivery?

 tirnaog wrote:
Dumb ? for the morning.
How do you get WraithGuard to shoot!
Mine never seem to make it within range of that bloody short 8"s.

example.
Unit jumps out of the webgate.
Cant shoot that turn as they are 9"s away from target.
On enemy turn unit moves 5"s or more away.
On my turn I move my 5"s.
I am still outside the bloody range!.
So to nuetur the WG all ya got to do is move 5"s away.

Take Wraithcannons or a Wave Serpent or use Quicken warlock power

I have Wraithcanons!
They only have 8" range. which appears to be my problem.
Even if I took a wave serpent, wouldnt I still have same issue?
I get out of wave serpent , target unit not within the 8"s and we are back to same issue. They move 5"s or more and I can never catch them :(.

For such an expensive unit, and being Eldar, ya thing they could shoot a bit further!

{ just frustrated atm }

Wraithcannons are 12". The scythes are 8". They are expensive but also really tough. Don't jump out Wave Serpent if you can't then hit the target. Premeasuring is allowed.

If you use the flamers they have an 8" range but you can advance and shoot without penalty so its a 5+ D6" move. The Cannons are 12" so should be in range out of the webway. Wave serpents have always worked for me.

I was playing around with how best to fit Ynnari into new Craftworld armies. I feel like there are a couple of obvious stratagem/unit synergies. The hard part is fitting everything you want into a list.

Some new tricks:
We now have reasonable screening units in Alatoic Rangers. These can protect a big Dark Reaper squad and will also trigger a Soulburst when they die.

Dark Reapers are now pretty worthwhile even without a reliable Soulburst. We can bring small 3-man units to sit near the larger blob. They'll get great use out of their tempest launchers while being protected by the presence of the big Ynnari squad. Small Craftworld Shining Spears squads can be similarly protected by their proximity to a large Ynnari squad, and this can help deal with the fact that psychic powers can only buff one unit.

Quicken and Fire & Fade make it much easier to trigger useful Soulbursts on short-ranged units, especially when combined with Webway Strike.

You can mix and match craftworlds in your Ynnari detachment to take advantage of Craftworld-specific stratagems.


So for example, for ~800 points you get Yvraine and full squads of Guardians, Dark Reapers, and Fire Dragons or Shining Spears. You have to make this a detachment, but you can do this by taking generally good stuff like a Spiritseer and Guardians in Serpents (though the Serpents will technically be part of the Craftworld detachment). Then you have an Alatoic Ranger Battalion with some small squads of Dark Reapers or Spears thrown in, and maybe a Hemlock.

Then you deep strike the Guardians and Dragons/Spears. In your psychic phase you Quicken the Aspects to get them into melta/lance range. You use WotP on the Reapers to shoot and maybe trigger a Soulburst with your close-in Aspects. In your shooting phase the Guardians shoot and then use Fire & Fade to get into Soulburst range of an enemy. The Aspects open up on something at point blank range, and Soulburst if they haven't already. And the Reapers shoot again. At some point the Guardians Soulburst from all the stuff you're killing near them and shoot again too.

Regarding D-scythes vs Wraithcannons:
Remember that when you disembark, the unit only has to be within 3", not wholly 3". This means that you get 3" + most of your base size.
So let's assume that's about 4" total, then you get to move 5" + D6 advance.
9+D6" + 8" range = 18-23" from the Serpent's hull. How are you not getting in range of your target with D-scythes?

All you have to do is move within 12" of several enemy targets and you are guaranteed to get something in range (or force them to flee a huge bubble away from your army).
Considering a Serpent can move 16+D6", this should never be an issue.

-

Dionysodorus wrote:
I was playing around with how best to fit Ynnari into new Craftworld armies. I feel like there are a couple of obvious stratagem/unit synergies. The hard part is fitting everything you want into a list.

Some new tricks:
We now have reasonable screening units in Alatoic Rangers. These can protect a big Dark Reaper squad and will also trigger a Soulburst when they die.

Dark Reapers are now pretty worthwhile even without a reliable Soulburst. We can bring small 3-man units to sit near the larger blob. They'll get great use out of their tempest launchers while being protected by the presence of the big Ynnari squad. Small Craftworld Shining Spears squads can be similarly protected by their proximity to a large Ynnari squad, and this can help deal with the fact that psychic powers can only buff one unit.

Quicken and Fire & Fade make it much easier to trigger useful Soulbursts on short-ranged units, especially when combined with Webway Strike.

You can mix and match craftworlds in your Ynnari detachment to take advantage of Craftworld-specific stratagems.


So for example, for ~800 points you get Yvraine and full squads of Guardians, Dark Reapers, and Fire Dragons or Shining Spears. You have to make this a detachment, but you can do this by taking generally good stuff like a Spiritseer and Guardians in Serpents (though the Serpents will technically be part of the Craftworld detachment). Then you have an Alatoic Ranger Battalion with some small squads of Dark Reapers or Spears thrown in, and maybe a Hemlock.

Then you deep strike the Guardians and Dragons/Spears. In your psychic phase you Quicken the Aspects to get them into melta/lance range. You use WotP on the Reapers to shoot and maybe trigger a Soulburst with your close-in Aspects. In your shooting phase the Guardians shoot and then use Fire & Fade to get into Soulburst range of an enemy. The Aspects open up on something at point blank range, and Soulburst if they haven't already. And the Reapers shoot again. At some point the Guardians Soulburst from all the stuff you're killing near them and shoot again too.

I'm working on something similar, but trying hard to shoehorn in Wraithguard with D-Scythes. Ynnari are a hard list to make, because it requires just insane synergy to make it worthwhile.

Korlandril

Now i feel like a bloody idiot!
I had chosen D-scythes first and then changed back to WCs.
I messed up my stats and didnt notice I didnt change them too.

{ will now slip out quietly.....stage left.}

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
If you use the flamers they have an 8" range but you can advance and shoot without penalty so its a 5+ D6" move. The Cannons are 12" so should be in range out of the webway. Wave serpents have always worked for me.

This is probably the most reasonable way to move Wraithguard around. 5 + 1d6 (a flat 6 with Matchless Agility in a pinch). This is going to be referencing any time after they have reached their destinations with whatever delivery system you choose. That should probably be either Webway Strike or a Wave Serpent as previously mentioned. Both weapon kits for them are Assault, so they are free to Advance on any movement and still be able to fire (Wraithcannons at -1, sadly), but you should be able to drive them into a position to do some damage. You always have Quicken, though I wouldn't form strategies around a reliance on that (see: D-Scythe Wraithguard coming out of Webway Strike need Quicken to close that extra inch to fire). If you Webway Strike, I think you pretty much must drop in Wraithcannons to start getting points back out of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been working on my core army list, I figure I'll share it here for people to tear up and laugh at. I've been playing Biel-tan, and my opponent absolutely hates the trait, and we both agree it has been really valuable.

As a base I am running 2 Battalion Detachments:

2 Farseers (1 with Doom/Executioner - 1 with Guide/Fortune)
2 Spiritseers (both with Protect/Jinx)

2 Squads of 5x Dire Avengers (Exarchs with double Catapults)
2 Squads of 5x Rangers
1 Squad of 10x Guardians with a Bright Lance Platform
1 Squad of 20x Guardians with two Shuriken Cannon Platforms

That all comes for just over 800 points. I usually play around from there, but I try to work into a Spearhead Detachment with 2 Fire Prisms and usually a double Shuriken Cannon Warwalker. That gets me to 10 CP, and still have 750 points to go in a 2000 list (and only needing 1 HQ for Detachment requirements). A Wave Serpent usually makes an appearance, too, if for nothing else than to protect the Dire Avengers turn 1 and give them a bit of a movement jump when they disembark.

The Guardians usually Webway Strike alone. I try to control the middle of the map, extending my deployment zone 12-18 inches forward with Wave Serpents, Dire Avengers, Rangers appearing unbidden, Warwalkers, and Guardians if there is a plump target to shred with the Shuriken storm. That creates a really strong buffer for my Fire Prisms, keeping pesky melta and plasma deep strikers away. I've shielded a Wraith Knight much the same way, and it really put a lot of pressure on him to dig all that out... Wraith Knight followed forward once deep strikers were all accounted for and he had some more freedom to pick his targets (used Heavy Wraithcannons and Star Cannons, got a melee on turn 2 and 3 with it, as well).

Deployment, I usually keep the buffing Farseer in a pocket near a Fire Prism, had the Wraithknight here as well. That allows me to have Guide and Fortune on near targets that will be targeted by my opponent. I thought about bringing both Fire Prisms closer together, as I could Natural Leader one, Guide the other, save CP from Linked Fire if I really wanted to. There's tons of possibilities, but Stormwind buffs a lot of my forward units... I can be a bit more picky on what I pass out the valuable buffs to. My Spiritseers both take Protect/Jinx, the spell seems just a bit above the others in terms of what it usually does in game. I can always find a reason to cast either side of the spell, and if 1 Spiritseer gets whacked, I don't lose all my access to those spells. My last HQ is usually another Spiritseer, and I've been trying a lot of stuff, but nothing seems to stand out as "must have" like Protect/Jinx.

Doom has been absolutely ridiculous with the mess of 4 and 6 Strength Shuriken weapons. I don't believe a Doomed target has survived through the first couple of Shuriken volleys, much less surviving the turn.

Surviving first turn is usually a matter of placing Rangers forward as speed bumps to buffer my deployment zone a bit, it doesn't solve Alpha strikes, but lessens them.

Best part of the army is Battle Focus. Being able to run and shoot pretty much the whole army with no penalty makes sure I get my units where they need to be, never an inch or two short on range, or having half the squad out of range, half in. Adding that with the Stormwind trait for rerolling A LOT of 1's allows me to bring a lot of fire to bear against the middle of the field. Also, it untethers me from Autarchs to get those rerolls, saving 70+ points per, and allows my buffs to go to quality shooting units instead of quantity.

My most recent list looked like this (I used flat Biel-tan Craftworld because... fluff but, a mix of craftworlds would probably be best. I'll note what I think the best is per detachment. There's enough flexibility in the list to really customize past the 1250 point range.

Battalion Detachment: Biel-tan
Farseer (Doom, Executioner)
Farseer (Guide, Fortune) (Warlord with Natural Leader, Spirit Stone of Anath'lan)

5 Dire Avengers, Exarch w/ Dual Catapults
5 Dire Avengers, Exarch w/ Dual Catapults
20 Guardian Defenders, 2 Shuriken Cannons

5 Howling Banshees, Exarch w/ no upgrades

1 Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon and Twin Shuriken Cannons

Battalion Detachment: Biel-tan or Alaitoc (Alaitoc is probably better)

Spiritseer (Protect/Jinx)
Spiritseer (Protect/Jinx)

5 Rangers
5 Rangers
10 Guardian Defenders, 1 Bright Lance

Spearhead Detachment: Ulthwe or Alaitoc as preferred

Spiritseer (Conceal/Reveal)

Fire Prism
Fire Prism
War Walker with 2 Shuriken Cannons

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment

Wraithknight, 2 Heavy Wraithcanonns and 2 Starcannons.

Sorry for the lengthy post!

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Played my first game with ulthwe last night against emperors children. I got to go first and just played defensive. I had 2 - 20 man guardian drops that I saved until he got close on the second turn and I had 20 dire avengers in 2 serpants. The rest of my army was 2 fire prisms a crimson hunter - eldrad a farseer and 2 warlocks and 2 D cannons.

Fire prisms - crimson hunter and D cannons managed to kill a rhino and a 10 man noise marine and seriously hurt a maulerfiend. Next turn he moved up - focued the D cannons and killed both and he tried to damage the prisms with range but failed. Start of turn 2 I brought out all my infantry and it was pretty much over at that point.

1 unit of gardians (w 2 bright lance) I used to destroy his other noise marine rhino with 10 more noise marines in it with the help of doom and Black gardians stratagem (he popped smoke). The prisims killed the 10 noise marines inside with their linked fire stratagem and the low power fire mode (did 12 wounds). The other 20 man guardian dropped in front of his defiler - plus 20 dire avengers also targeted it. I casted jinx of the defiler so those infantry wiped it out with just guide on the guardians and the hunter went (which had conceal on it) killed a dreadnought.

Basically - I felt like I had all the tools to control the game. it really helped having 2 battalions. The ability to drop 40 guardians on someone on demand is REALLY strong though. Ulthwe do it best I think because they can use black guardians on 1 unit and guide the other. Plus the FNP is amazing.

Thats exactly how I felt after playing nids with Eldar. I have heard others say that Eldar don't have good 'horde' control units which I just don't see. Dire Avengers in Serpents with Dual Shuriken Cannons are amazing light infantry wipers.

Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

I think there could be value in picking up 1 or 2 D-Cannon platforms and going to all lengths to hide them out of site. But then be VERY vocal about where you've placed them and the fact that it is a Distort cannon (in fact call it a D-Cannon). People may still have hang-ups about when Distort weapons were Str D, if it affects or dissuades their decisions to advancing towards it in any way, it may well earn its points back without even shooting.

Thanks for the list and tactics. This is a very chess-like way of thinking about board maneuver and control, about controlling the center and pushing the opponent back rather than the usual dichotomy of either (1) charge forward full speed or (2) sit as far back as possible and shoot through frangible screens.

 Xenomancers wrote:



You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

Yeah i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I realyl want to put them in my force, but i dontk now if they will work well with my up close and personal army WIth shining spears, scorpions, and swooping hawks being very aggressive. I don't see a lot of options early on in the game for the platforms to start taking any shots.

Purifying Tempest wrote:


As a base I am running 2 Battalion Detachments:

2 Farseers (1 with Doom/Executioner - 1 with Guide/Fortune)
2 Spiritseers (both with Protect/Jinx)

2 Squads of 5x Dire Avengers (Exarchs with double Catapults)
2 Squads of 5x Rangers
1 Squad of 10x Guardians with a Bright Lance Platform
1 Squad of 20x Guardians with two Shuriken Cannon Platforms

I've been playing with a very similar core lately and I've had very solid results. I've been going for Ulthwe and Alatioc in my detachments but I think the Craftworld trait is really a matter of taste in some cases. I can also add that after having used 2 Crimson Hunters I think they'll stay pretty solidly placed in my lists - especially in an alatioc army with -2 to be hit.

mmimzie wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:



You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

Yeah i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I realyl want to put them in my force, but i dontk now if they will work well with my up close and personal army WIth shining spears, scorpions, and swooping hawks being very aggressive. I don't see a lot of options early on in the game for the platforms to start taking any shots.

I've played them twice and both first turns I have shot 1st turn at -1 though. Unless I am playing them wrong I believe they can shoot at -1 when they move.

Spartacus wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

I think there could be value in picking up 1 or 2 D-Cannon platforms and going to all lengths to hide them out of site. But then be VERY vocal about where you've placed them and the fact that it is a Distort cannon (in fact call it a D-Cannon). People may still have hang-ups about when Distort weapons were Str D, if it affects or dissuades their decisions to advancing towards it in any way, it may well earn its points back without even shooting.

It's also worth to remember Vaul's Wrath shares the Guardian Keyword too so you can use Celestial Shield or Discipline of the Black Guardians Stratagem to make the unit more durable or ensure the shoots land when needed.

Has anybody tried a straight-up, edition 3.5 style serpent assault army?

One where you fill 5-6 wave serpents with banshees and scorpions, (and some buffing characters) boom across the table full speed turn one, then jump out and assault turn two?

Banshees and scorpions are overall cheaper than they were, so you get more punchiness than in 3rd edition. And you even have options now for assaulty wraithguard and worthwhile shining spears for backup. But I don't know if serpents are durable enough.

Would that work in 5th edition, or do most armies pack enough firepower to knock down more than 1-2 serpents with a turn or two of shooting?

I've been running pretty Serpent-heavy lists all throughout 8th, though with Guardians instead of anything fancier. Early on I was typically using 4 Serpents with Guardians and then flyers. It worked pretty well. It'll work even better now. Serpents are extremely durable, Guardians are very efficient if they don't get killed immediately, and the Serpents can tie stuff up to protect the Guardians. You really don't lose much on turn 1, and even less now with Alatoic.

Banshees and Scorpions would probably do okay, but Guardians just seem better. Like, with Banshees you're mostly paying for their movement and Overwatch immunity, but the Serpents are already giving you those things. Meanwhile Scorpions are paying a lot for a little bit of durability, which helps them survive while cowering in cover and helps them tie things up, but again the Serpents make sure that they don't get shot at and the Serpents tie things up.

Probably the Scorpions are preferable to the Banshees, since they hit a lot harder with an Exarch with Claw. They actually do (barely) out-damage Guardians for cost against lots of things if you shoot and charge.

I haven't used more than 3 Serpents in a game.

I want to say that maybe one game a guard army did take down 1 serpent but I think he reminded me of spirit stones and It actually made it to turn 2.

I think 1 serpent is the most an army in a 2k game can take out unless they dice are in their favor.

Perhaps if there are a ton of small arms fire, otherwise with the serpent reducing damage it will take 4 or 5 damaging shots of big guns to eliminate a serpent. So for 2 kills they will need up to 10 or more that bypasses all defenses.

As long as your using terrain and flanking moves it is unlikely for 2 to be killed....and I'm sure they want to target the cargo once they finally cracked the transport....or it was kinda a wasted effort...so really the odds are very hard to kill 2 plus the exposed cargo.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Has anybody tried a straight-up, edition 3.5 style serpent assault army?

One where you fill 5-6 wave serpents with banshees and scorpions, (and some buffing characters) boom across the table full speed turn one, then jump out and assault turn two?

Banshees and scorpions are overall cheaper than they were, so you get more punchiness than in 3rd edition. And you even have options now for assaulty wraithguard and worthwhile shining spears for backup. But I don't know if serpents are durable enough.

Would that work in 5th edition, or do most armies pack enough firepower to knock down more than 1-2 serpents with a turn or two of shooting?

I don't dislike it, but I think there are much more stellar units than either of those, currently. And your CP would be a hot mess.

I think if the opponent had nothing else worthwhile to put fire into, they could knock a Serpent out in a turn or two, probably 2-3 in the first couple of turns. But it also depends heavily on their list and how some of those damage rolls go. I've had games where Serpents were largely ignored, I've had a few where people tunnel visioned on them and they go down to clinging to life in a turn. I must say that I don't much mind the results either way. It is either tanking a lot of damage, or pushing out a lot of shuriken shots and threatening the shield.

What I have had happened a lot was a Serpent going down to 1-3 wounds after concentrated fire, only to disperse that shield in a final hurrah... and then promptly have it ignored the rest of the game. Even in this state, a Serpent can re-discharge its shield for 1 CP.

I don't really see a need for more than 3, really. 1-3 is usually a good number depending on army composition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

Thanks for the list and tactics. This is a very chess-like way of thinking about board maneuver and control, about controlling the center and pushing the opponent back rather than the usual dichotomy of either (1) charge forward full speed or (2) sit as far back as possible and shoot through frangible screens.

Thanks! Both of us did a lot of chess in the past, and this is like chess for guys who have WAY too much disposable income, right?

Playing either one of those other scenarios tends to lead to getting hammered on an exposed position. The only time rushing or turtle'ing up works against us is when the lists are just so unbalanced that the results were in at list creation. Unfortunately, we don't get to play against hyper-specialized lists, either, because we play very balanced. So things like three knights or Magnus, Mortian, and garbage could really rough us up (due to inexperience, really).

I think Eldar plays a lot to this... where you put those squads, stratagems, and psychic powers is kind of a big deal.

I was just thinking about Scorpions and came across something. Is there any reason that Supreme Disdain and Death from a Thousand Stings wouldn't stack? So that on a successful hit of 6+ you would get two more attacks (one from each rule).

I don't see or know of a reason it wouldn't work. Throw in Enhance and in an optimal setting (targets in cover for another +1) you would get 2 extra attacks on every 4+. Could be mean.

I doubt there is anything competitive here, but it adds some value to Karandras and makes Scorpions a lot more dangerous. 10 Scorpions, Karandras, and spiritseer/warlock in a Wave Serpent would make quite the bomb.

Colgado wrote:
I was just thinking about Scorpions and came across something. Is there any reason that Supreme Disdain and Death from a Thousand Stings wouldn't stack? So that on a successful hit of 6+ you would get two more attacks (one from each rule).

I don't see or know of a reason it wouldn't work. Throw in Enhance and in an optimal setting (targets in cover for another +1) you would get 2 extra attacks on every 4+. Could be mean.

I doubt there is anything competitive here, but it adds some value to Karandras and makes Scorpions a lot more dangerous. 10 Scorpions, Karandras, and spiritseer/warlock in a Wave Serpent would make quite the bomb.

Strong combo the problem being implimentation becomes difficult. You gotta get them up the board and get them into combat. I made a post on my thoughts on scorpions here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/743155.page#9683491 last page.

mmimzie wrote:

Colgado wrote:
I was just thinking about Scorpions and came across something. Is there any reason that Supreme Disdain and Death from a Thousand Stings wouldn't stack? So that on a successful hit of 6+ you would get two more attacks (one from each rule).

I don't see or know of a reason it wouldn't work. Throw in Enhance and in an optimal setting (targets in cover for another +1) you would get 2 extra attacks on every 4+. Could be mean.

I doubt there is anything competitive here, but it adds some value to Karandras and makes Scorpions a lot more dangerous. 10 Scorpions, Karandras, and spiritseer/warlock in a Wave Serpent would make quite the bomb.

Strong combo the problem being implimentation becomes difficult. You gotta get them up the board and get them into combat. I made a post on my thoughts on scorpions here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/743155.page#9683491 last page.

Or you could just pile them all into wave serpents?

I’m really starting to feel the possiibilities of the 5-6 serpent banshee/scorpion rush. Few deployment drops, and a deployment that presents your opponent with nothing but hard targets (serpents) with maybe some screening rangers. Then after the turn one fly-forward (with vectored engines and lightning-fast reactions if necessary to discourage shooting at the serpent with the wraithblades) deepstriking some flying low-priority flying units like windriders, hawks so they can jump into the assault for unit-trapping schenanigans. You can potentially mulch a shooting army without really letting them shoot at anything except serpents, game over in turn three.

Karandas would be a good support character, but also Asurmen (aka captain expensive) for the invul saves.

WH40K - 8thEd - 500 Pts - Craftworlds Roster
Question on command points are they gone once spent or do they refresh each battle turn?

Comments / suggestions?
Would ye pick different Trait or stratagems? Why?

Wanted Wraithguard but could not see a detachment that would work within the 500pts limit.
Any ideas? is it possible.



Army [1]
Spearhead Detachment (CPs = 4, 492 pts)
1 Spiritseer, 45pts (Warlord Trait: Fates of the Messenger. CW Stratagems: Webway Strike [1/3CP], Fade & Fire [1CP], Tears of Isha [2CP] )
9 Rangers, 180 pts
1 War Walker, 113 pts (Bright Lance; Starcannon)
1 War Walker, 113 pts (Bright Lance; Starcannon )
1 War Walker, 113 pts (Bright Lance; Starcannon )

Army [2]
Spearhead Detachment (CPs = 4, 489 pts)
1 Spiritseer, 45pts (Warlord Trait: Fates of the Messenger. CW Stratagems: Webway Strike [1/3CP], Fade & Fire [1CP], Tears of Isha [2CP] )
1 Wraithlord, 148 pts (Ghostglaive; Bright Lance x1; Starcannon x1)
1 Wraithlord, 148 pts (Ghostglaive; Bright Lance x1; Starcannon x1)
1 Wraithlord, 148 pts (Ghostglaive; Bright Lance x1; Starcannon x1)

Basically turns the Scorpions into MWBD Tesla Immortals. harder to execute though. If you can reliably get Spiritseer + Scorpions into combat from a Waveserpent, sure. Perhaps double Spirit Seer (+1hit, quicken) Scorpions, Waveserpent?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically turns the Scorpions into MWBD Tesla Immortals. harder to execute though. If you can reliably get Spiritseer + Scorpions into combat from a Waveserpent, sure. Perhaps double Spirit Seer (+1hit, quicken) Scorpions, Waveserpent?

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

Colgado wrote:
I was just thinking about Scorpions and came across something. Is there any reason that Supreme Disdain and Death from a Thousand Stings wouldn't stack? So that on a successful hit of 6+ you would get two more attacks (one from each rule).

I don't see or know of a reason it wouldn't work. Throw in Enhance and in an optimal setting (targets in cover for another +1) you would get 2 extra attacks on every 4+. Could be mean.

I doubt there is anything competitive here, but it adds some value to Karandras and makes Scorpions a lot more dangerous. 10 Scorpions, Karandras, and spiritseer/warlock in a Wave Serpent would make quite the bomb.

Strong combo the problem being implimentation becomes difficult. You gotta get them up the board and get them into combat. I made a post on my thoughts on scorpions here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/743155.page#9683491 last page.

Or you could just pile them all into wave serpents?

I’m really starting to feel the possiibilities of the 5-6 serpent banshee/scorpion rush. Few deployment drops, and a deployment that presents your opponent with nothing but hard targets (serpents) with maybe some screening rangers. Then after the turn one fly-forward (with vectored engines and lightning-fast reactions if necessary to discourage shooting at the serpent with the wraithblades) deepstriking some flying low-priority flying units like windriders, hawks so they can jump into the assault for unit-trapping schenanigans. You can potentially mulch a shooting army without really letting them shoot at anything except serpents, game over in turn three.

Karandas would be a good support character, but also Asurmen (aka captain expensive) for the invul saves.

Potentially i couldn't be too bad, it depends. if your doing casual play you'd probably do quite well, but most competitive armies have screens, and they'll happily chew on your wave serpent shooting 2 turn turns, and take a turn of charges from your banshees. Then everything behind the screens will light up the exposed soft meats of your scorpions and banshees 6 serpents just break 11 conscript kills a turn. So two turns of shooting that, and then all the banshees and scorps shooting things up with thier pistols will maybe??? barrily take out a single 30 man squad of conscripts.

That's not saying i think the idea is terrible just i think you really want stuff on the table to chew up that screen your opponent will employ to stop you. An argument could also be made for dropping the servants for just more model, but serpents are very durable. So terrible that i definitely feel like they are worth thier price for that. Maybe if you also included two squads of 20 man guadians from ulthwe or better yet biel-tan and had them drop to clear the screen for your charging banshees and scorps.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Basically turns the Scorpions into MWBD Tesla Immortals. harder to execute though. If you can reliably get Spiritseer + Scorpions into combat from a Waveserpent, sure. Perhaps double Spirit Seer (+1hit, quicken) Scorpions, Waveserpent?

No it doesn't. Only the Exarch gets Sustained Attack.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Played my first game with ulthwe last night against emperors children. I got to go first and just played defensive. I had 2 - 20 man guardian drops that I saved until he got close on the second turn and I had 20 dire avengers in 2 serpants. The rest of my army was 2 fire prisms a crimson hunter - eldrad a farseer and 2 warlocks and 2 D cannons.

Fire prisms - crimson hunter and D cannons managed to kill a rhino and a 10 man noise marine and seriously hurt a maulerfiend. Next turn he moved up - focued the D cannons and killed both and he tried to damage the prisms with range but failed. Start of turn 2 I brought out all my infantry and it was pretty much over at that point.

1 unit of gardians (w 2 bright lance) I used to destroy his other noise marine rhino with 10 more noise marines in it with the help of doom and Black gardians stratagem (he popped smoke). The prisims killed the 10 noise marines inside with their linked fire stratagem and the low power fire mode (did 12 wounds). The other 20 man guardian dropped in front of his defiler - plus 20 dire avengers also targeted it. I casted jinx of the defiler so those infantry wiped it out with just guide on the guardians and the hunter went (which had conceal on it) killed a dreadnought.

Basically - I felt like I had all the tools to control the game. it really helped having 2 battalions. The ability to drop 40 guardians on someone on demand is REALLY strong though. Ulthwe do it best I think because they can use black guardians on 1 unit and guide the other. Plus the FNP is amazing.

Thats exactly how I felt after playing nids with Eldar. I have heard others say that Eldar don't have good 'horde' control units which I just don't see. Dire Avengers in Serpents with Dual Shuriken Cannons are amazing light infantry wipers.

Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

OK, and bought. I will give them a try. Due for a game vs Tyrnaids next week, will have to try them out with my standard eldar list and see how it goes.