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8th is arguably the best internally balanced. Even the 4th ed codex had internal issues (Carnifexes were great, everything else not so much).

 Tyran wrote:
8th is arguably the best internally balanced. Even the 4th ed codex had internal issues (Carnifexes were great, everything else not so much).

IIRC 4th edition was when all the Carnifexes got nerfed, and we were running Hiveguard and Proxied Tervigons. Or was this 5th edition?

EDIT: Yeah, that was 5th edition. 4th was the era of Carnifexes.

I haven't played as much 8th, but the dex didn't feel very internally balanced either. A lot of the big monsters like the Maleceptor and Haruspex don't seem great.

It is more a testament on how poorly balanced were the previous codexes.

 Tyran wrote:
It is more a testament on how poorly balanced were the previous codexes.

Most definitely is. On roles to play on the batttlefield, 8th Ed terrain rules as well as the need for a lot of terrain to block LOS has made non flying MCs absolute garbage, even with good cc potential (which our MCs severely lacked anyway).
I d say that 8th was an edition where ground CC MCs were virtually non existent in competitive play. Let’s hope 9th changes that (I am confident it will, perhaps not for our big bugs though...)

 addnid wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
It is more a testament on how poorly balanced were the previous codexes.

Most definitely is. On roles to play on the batttlefield, 8th Ed terrain rules as well as the need for a lot of terrain to block LOS has made non flying MCs absolute garbage, even with good cc potential (which our MCs severely lacked anyway).
I d say that 8th was an edition where ground CC MCs were virtually non existent in competitive play. Let’s hope 9th changes that (I am confident it will, perhaps not for our big bugs though...)

I'm hoping so. My Crons look like they are going to get a lot play, and I would hate for such a huge amount of my Nid collection to just sit on the shelves.

The only part of the codex where GW really screwed up is the internal balance between hive fleet adaptations and hive fleet specific goodies. The rest is fine.

The Leviathan adaptation isn't horrible and I appreciate that it works in nearly every list, but it slows the game down and pushes me to group up for something other factions get unconditionally.
The relic is a miserable joke, the stratagem sees a use once in a blue moon for a miniscule benefit and the BoB Levi spell is probably even worse than Slayer Sabres, if that's even possible.

The warlord trait used to be good, when I was still taking warlord traits...

And Leviathan isn't even the worst adaptation in the book.

I just want a Biovore model that doesn't suck. We've never had one, and I'd love one in plastic. Make it a double kit with the Pyrovore.

 Tyran wrote:
8th is arguably the best internally balanced. Even the 4th ed codex had internal issues (Carnifexes were great, everything else not so much).

4th Ed was the era of Nidzilla. GW had a new Carnifex kit to sell, so obviously the rules were geared to sell that kit. Then again, it was an improvement on 3rd, where to make 'Nids viable (outside of the broken Seeding Swarm list), you basically had to take a custom fleet and have as few species as possible so that you could have as many Rending Claw mutant Gaunts units as possible.

 Overread wrote:
Isn't the sniper Hiveguard and isn't the transport the tervigon (which transports only gaunts) along with the Tyrannofex.

What on earth are you talking about.... none of those units are transports nor snipers.... the only transport in the dex is the Tyrannocyte or technically the Trygon for deepstriking troops...




I don't think we need a sniper. That is not the way of the swarm. Improvements to our already dedicated assassin units would be nice though.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just want a Biovore model that doesn't suck. We've never had one, and I'd love one in plastic. Make it a double kit with the Pyrovore.

 Tyran wrote:
8th is arguably the best internally balanced. Even the 4th ed codex had internal issues (Carnifexes were great, everything else not so much).

4th Ed was the era of Nidzilla. GW had a new Carnifex kit to sell, so obviously the rules were geared to sell that kit. Then again, it was an improvement on 3rd, where to make 'Nids viable (outside of the broken Seeding Swarm list), you basically had to take a custom fleet and have as few species as possible so that you could have as many Rending Claw mutant Gaunts units as possible.

An earlier GW employee talked about designing new codexes on reddit once. To summarice, they where instructed to push new models. This is not shocking as it had been suspected a lott.

The model in discussion then was the giant eldar walker. With its stats it was priced very high in points. Their boss said nobody would buy the lot if it was that exspensive, and they had to reduce its point cost. And hence the model was very good on release. (I do not remember the name of the source.) In 4th edotion the carnifex was pushed. If it was under a certain cost it was an elite, over a certain cost it was heavy suport.

Having an blatant unbalanced game is no way to design a game. That is why GW where shocked when they kicked Kirby out of the company and started focusing on making a good game, like 8th edition was. Sales increased. Everyome where happy. I hope they continue this trend in 9th edition. I have faith.

(That breeing said I really wonder what nids unit they pushed in 5th and 6th edition because everything was really bad. )

 Niiai wrote:

(That breeing said I really wonder what nids unit they pushed in 5th and 6th edition because everything was really bad. )

Tervigons and Hive Guard?

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Isn't the sniper Hiveguard and isn't the transport the tervigon (which transports only gaunts) along with the Tyrannofex.

What on earth are you talking about.... none of those units are transports nor snipers.... the only transport in the dex is the Tyrannocyte or technically the Trygon for deepstriking troops...

I mixed up the Tyrannofex with the Tyrannocyte. Meanwhile the Tervigon is a tyranid take on a transport in that it births and releases termagaunts into the battlefield as opposed to loading specific troops. I agree its not the same as most transports, but it does generally fit the concept of a more heavily armoured unit moving forward and then releasing units further forward into the battlefield.

Groovy news for tyranids for 9th ed. The big monsters will be shooting out of combat same way as tanks will based on the twitch Q&A

There is a twitch Q&A?

 Tyran wrote:
There is a twitch Q&A?

Going on right now talking about changes in 9th ed. Hop around if you are interested.

(btw Pete Holey is troll. LAst time and this time he has funny texts on background for fun jokes. Last time stuff like "plastic thunderhawk". Now "10th ed: no dices" Wonder how long it takes for faeith to bring that as "reliabe source told us" rumour ;-)

 Tyran wrote:
There is a twitch Q&A?

Those are my notes

Some news from the twitch streaming:

Everybody hits on 6´s
Capped modifiers
Capped CP (everybody has the same amount)
Veichles and monsters can fight second floors as Titatic
Monsters can shoot in CC as tanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also

Terrain block LOS (obscuring is gonna be a thing: terrain have a footprint)
Mininum terrain amount implemented.
NO alternate activation.
1 CP for having units in DS.
They can come from different from different table edges as the game progresses.
Overwatch is gonna change (helping CC armies)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goonhammer transcript:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pLkIFWf81YIhGD6Cy_zfvX4zm5GbkYTTEHEPapCTONY/edit

What is capped CP? Does this mean CP generators do not excist? Does this mean batallions and formations are a thingbof the past? Because I have painted soooo many GSC troops.

There will still be detachments in list making apparently but they don’t generate CP anymore

 Niiai wrote:
What is capped CP? Does this mean CP generators do not excist? Does this mean batallions and formations are a thingbof the past? Because I have painted soooo many GSC troops.

You don't gain cp by taking dets. You pay instead. Is that just to unlock other codex or just each det costs cp(and is that flat or depends on det) is unknown.

You can still mix tyranids and gsc but it will cost cp. All start with same cp depending on game size from which you use it for det's etc.

No need for 2xhq and 3xtroop just to generate cp

Then what is the points of all my GSC?!

 Niiai wrote:
Then what is the points of all my GSC?!

You mean why take them? For what they bring to you. If they were just for cp yeah useless. But can't you figure anything else? Those infiltraters etc should be usefull on it's own.

Giving everyone the same amount of CPs seems like a very blanket approach to fixing a more detailed problem.

tneva82 wrote:
Groovy news for tyranids for 9th ed. The big monsters will be shooting out of combat same way as tanks will based on the twitch Q&A

Tell me when my bugs are tough enough to actually take incoming firepower and can't be targeted because the tip of a spine on the side of a wing is visible. Then I might care about being able to shoot my ultra-short-ranged guns in combat.

Well guess what. Los and terrain rule is going to be changed. No more "i see tip of your wing from this tiny window so i shoot at you".

tneva82 wrote:
Well guess what. Los and terrain rule is going to be changed. No more "i see tip of your wing from this tiny window so i shoot at you".

We don't know that. What we know is that some types of terrain won't be able to be seen through even if they have obvious windows (ie. the way area terrain used to work). That does not preclude the idea that the "you can see it/you can shoot it" crap that we have now.

Did you even watch yesterday stream? Guess not

tneva82 wrote:
Did you even watch yesterday stream? Guess not

Then transcribe the part you're talking about. It's not up to me to prove something when you apparently know the answer. I read the summary that was made, and at no point does it cover the "see it/shoot it" crap that 8th Ed has.

If you know differnt, then SHOW ME.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Did you even watch yesterday stream? Guess not

Then transcribe the part you're talking about. It's not up to me to prove something when you apparently know the answer. I read the summary that was made, and at no point does it cover the "see it/shoot it" crap that 8th Ed has.

If you know differnt, then SHOW ME.

Direct Quote:

"Terrain will block LOS "a lot more". No longer able to shoot through three windows and a postbox and clip the wing of a Carnifex."

Yes. He said Carnifex wing. Yes, twitch chat gave him hell for the mistake.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Direct Quote:

"Terrain will block LOS "a lot more". No longer able to shoot through three windows and a postbox and clip the wing of a Carnifex."

Yes. He said Carnifex wing. Yes, twitch chat gave him hell for the mistake.

Or winged Carnifex confirmed!

It's about the only thing a Carnifex can't do! High time the swarm evolved them wings to be superior


Or or perhaps GW finally played Warcraft 3 and saw the Bug hero and decided - yes our hunched fex needs a new update with wings on its back!

Jump-Fexes would be pretty lit. Fun way to clear GEQ screens, and charge/fallback out of surround/shoot/charge something else in Kraken would be wavy.

I’d say doubt we get a new Carnifex kit, but honestly they do have that weird hip joint and we got new Hive Guard kit when they didn’t need a new sculpt at all so who knows

Persoanlly I'd just like GW to release a base size chart for the game. Coming back to my Tyranids I've been trying to get it right and it seems that GW's own end doesn't get it right with some seeming to jump around depending on the product/release team behind it. Eg variations between different sets and killteam and main games not to mention differences between GSC and Tyranids.

I'd prefer that right now over new sculpts for Tyranids!