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My fitst list idea with the new codex:

HF:Jormungandr
HT gets: reaper of obliterax relic and adaptive biology

patrol:
hive tyrant /w HVC 175p
4x warriors 100p
3x tyrant guard 120p
3x tyrant guard 120p

patrol:
hive tyrant /w HVC 175p
4x warriors 100p
maleceptor 170p
neurotroph 100p
zoanthropes 150p

patrol:
hive tyrant /w HVC 175p
3x warriors 75p
maleceptor 170p
maleceptor 170p
tyranofex /w acid spary, 4++ 200p

sum 2000p

everything except for the tyrant guard, zoanthopes and neurothrope has obsec

 Nevelon wrote:
I think “useless” is a bit harsh. ”not broken” is more in line. IMHO.

GW did the typical thing and overbalanced them, dramatically decreasing their lethality whilst also increasing their price. And put them in HS where they have better things to compete with.

If they'd just reduced their damage output then it would've been fine, but piling on everything else just added insult to injury and made a "auto-take" unit into a "I've got better things to spend my points on" unit. And yes, I know they made them a little tougher, but that hardly makes up for the nerfing they received.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
I think “useless” is a bit harsh. ”not broken” is more in line. IMHO.

GW did the typical thing and overbalanced them, dramatically decreasing their lethality whilst also increasing their price. And put them in HS where they have better things to compete with.

If they'd just reduced their damage output then it would've been fine, but piling on everything else just added insult to injury and made a "auto-take" unit into a "I've got better things to spend my points on" unit. And yes, I know they made them a little tougher, but that hardly makes up for the nerfing they received.

I agree that they went from “broken” to “sub-par” in the typical GW pendulum nerf.

People calling units “useless” is one of my pet-peaves. Often units are viewed through a binary lens: Broken and spamable for tournament play or useless. No shades of grey, no looking at what the unit can bring in corner cases, just black and white, yes or no.

Everything has pros and cons. Granted, not always in equal amounts. They may be overshadowed by other options, but they should still have a role they can play.

But by tarring a unit as “useless” you miss out on its potential.

Also everyone is too focused on the impaler cannon and ignores the greatly improved shockcannon.

 Nevelon wrote:
People calling units “useless” is one of my pet-peaves. Often units are viewed through a binary lens: Broken and spamable for tournament play or useless. No shades of grey, no looking at what the unit can bring in corner cases, just black and white, yes or no.

Everything has pros and cons. Granted, not always in equal amounts. They may be overshadowed by other options, but they should still have a role they can play.

But by tarring a unit as “useless” you miss out on its potential.

One, I never spammed them (I own 6!) and two, I don't play in tournaments.

And I can't figure out why I'd bring them in their current state. What purpose do they serve?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
People calling units “useless” is one of my pet-peaves. Often units are viewed through a binary lens: Broken and spamable for tournament play or useless. No shades of grey, no looking at what the unit can bring in corner cases, just black and white, yes or no.

Everything has pros and cons. Granted, not always in equal amounts. They may be overshadowed by other options, but they should still have a role they can play.

But by tarring a unit as “useless” you miss out on its potential.

One, I never spammed them (I own 6!) and two, I don't play in tournaments.

And I can't figure out why I'd bring them in their current state. What purpose do they serve?

Sorry, didn’t mean to single you out. As I said, “useless” units is one of my hot buttons.

I’ve not had a chance to digest the whole of the leaks and am still new to ’Nids, but at a glance:

The shock cannons do look like they could be fun in addition to the impalers
They are Infantry, which interacts differently than monsters in a number of situations
The defensive stance thing might have some advantages when camping and providing fire support (combined with infantry, good for parking in terrain on an objective?)
Smaller profile then big bugs, easier to hide
Ignoring cover/BS/hit mods might not be as major as when you could stack those through the roof, but it’s not nothing.

They have enough interesting parts that could be worked and leveraged. I’ve not dug into it enough to give you a ton of examples. Did they take enough hits to keep them out of top table lists? Probably. But I think they can be effective at their job, with some interesting perks. they are just not the hyper efficient killing machines they were.

Leviathan Shardgullet Flyrant with Perfectly Adapted seems like a fun time. Alternatively, Kraken instead of Leviathan and take Heightened Senses. Keep the Kraken adaptive for better advances so he can zoom around 19-22", it's an assault weapon and the full rerolls from Senses will help cover the shooting penalty.

I am so ready for a drop pod haruspex with a 4+invuln. Its just going to be so hardcore

dreadlybrew wrote:
I am so ready for a drop pod haruspex with a 4+invuln. Its just going to be so hardcore

You and me BOTH brother!

Anyone have any thoughts on warrior loadouts? My printer is going be to going brrrr this weekend and I'm waffling between Double boneswords and scything talons, or Double swords and deathspitter.

Wonder if the +2 Adrenal Glands Relic is good for any character? Trygon of course works best with that auto-wound toxin sacs one. And Hive Tyrant gets those Scytals that are essentially boneswords with extra attacks.

I think maybe the Tervigon?

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:

dreadlybrew wrote:
I am so ready for a drop pod haruspex with a 4+invuln. Its just going to be so hardcore

You and me BOTH brother!

me too, just looked at it again holy gak it has 15 attacks at S7 AP -1 D2
with 4++ anf T8 it is really tough and it can gain 3 wounds back per fight phase.

4 wounds if you ace somone with the tongue gun.


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Some additional tech inwas thinking was dropping a lictor with the haruspex drop pods (might run 2) get that sweet +2 on charges

 Carnage43 wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on warrior loadouts? My printer is going be to going brrrr this weekend and I'm waffling between Double boneswords and scything talons, or Double swords and deathspitter.

Why would you ever want Talons? The extra attacks are with a garbage profile. Boneswords + Deathspitter every single time.

Doesn’t each scything talon grant +1 attack? That’s my reading. If true, two pairs (4) is 7 attacks per dude at a S5 -1 1D. It’s like having sweep attacks all the time, far from garbage.


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Oh and if you still want options, boneswords and talons gives you four attacks with swords and two with talons. It’s not bad.


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Oh but it appears these are all free upgrades? If that’s the case, if you’re going melee the double swords double scythes seems the best, otherwise the best all around is probably swords/spitter. I’m blown away that these are all basically free upgrades.

Worth putting toxin sacs and/or glands on hormies or keep them bare? I'll probably be running Leviathan if that matters.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Worth putting toxin sacs and/or glands on hormies or keep them bare? I'll probably be running Leviathan if that matters.

So tempting. They get a lot out of both of them. Going to S4 is a big breakpoint, and faster is better. And with the number of swings they get now, toxin will help get the wounds in.

But do we want to bump the price up that much? For a chaff unit they start to get kinda pricy. Better off to just field more basic guys?

If you have a way to let them charge without eating fire for a round, I suspect they can return their points. Someone can do the mathammer. But they will make for some very expensive gore splattered across the battlefield if they get caught in the open.

Of course, if you just play crusade, why not all the extra glands you can graft on?

What do people think about rupture cannon tyranofex against tau spesisically?

Also, the relica drenal gland does not replace the regular drenal glands? So you are effecivly +3 to movement? I am gonne try to get some winged hive tyrant action.

+5 if you combo with advance and charge.

The only issue is that we have so many good relics now that it is getting hard to choose.

Anytime you might bring a rupture cannon. I would just bring a shard gullet walking tyrant woth tyrant guard

dreadlybrew wrote:
Anytime you might bring a rupture cannon. I would just bring a shard gullet walking tyrant woth tyrant guard

You can only bring 1 Tyrant per detachment now though.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:

dreadlybrew wrote:
I am so ready for a drop pod haruspex with a 4+invuln. Its just going to be so hardcore

You and me BOTH brother!

me too, just looked at it again holy gak it has 15 attacks at S7 AP -1 D2
with 4++ anf T8 it is really tough and it can gain 3 wounds back per fight phase.

Yeah I just ran this combo this weekend in a 1000pts Vs Dark Angels and a 2000pts game Vs Custodes...he did NOT disappoint. I drop podded him first game and slogged the second. He’s such a bullet soak.


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dreadlybrew wrote:
Anytime you might bring a rupture cannon. I would just bring a shard gullet walking tyrant woth tyrant guard

THIS!

Eh as much as the shardgullet is amazing, the rupture cannon is still a better gun.

D6+4 >>> 5

So my 1000 pt game Vs Dark Angels was very one-sided and funny to boot. As my opponent ran two big squads of shield Vets and I played Leviathan with 2 big squads of Warriors...I have to say that Warriors are GOING to be the Meta. Having Transhuman is such a game changer for Warriors, as they did most of the heavy lifting in my games. The new improved venom cannon is truly terrifying. If people are wondering if Stampede is going to be Legal after the codex drop, I’d say no fricking way.


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 Tyran wrote:
Eh as much as the shardgullet is amazing, the rupture cannon is still a better gun.

D6+4 >>> 5

Not if it’s on a 2+ to hit platform that can’t be shot at....Gullet is a Baller weapon. I was one shoting space marine dreadnaughts.

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:


Not if it’s on a 2+ to hit platform that can’t be shot at....Gullet is a Baller weapon. I was one shoting space marine dreadnaughts.

In terms of raw damage, the rupture cannon is just better. BS 2+ is a 25% improvement over BS 3+, but Dd6+4 is a 50% improvement over D5. And the rupture cannon gets so much of the Leviathan secondary trait.

Also, S14 over S12 so you wound space marine dreadnoughts on 2+.

Now sure bodyguards shenanigans are broken, but if you want a hard target dead at range, rupture cannon is better.

 Tyran wrote:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:


Not if it’s on a 2+ to hit platform that can’t be shot at....Gullet is a Baller weapon. I was one shoting space marine dreadnaughts.

In terms of raw damage, the rupture cannon is just better. BS 2+ is a 25% improvement over BS 3+, but Dd6+4 is a 50% improvement over D5. And the rupture cannon gets so much of the Leviathan secondary trait.

Also, S14 over S12 so you wound space marine dreadnoughts on 2+.

Now sure bodyguards shenanigans are broken, but if you want a hard target dead at range, rupture cannon is better.

I won't argue with you on the gun (fine points), but my point is that walking Tyrants are definitely going to be a thing. Great all-around unit in my honest opinion. Being an old school player (2nd edition), I think this new Bug codex is what they should have been portrayed ages ago, since 2nd edition. And I've never played the shield wall/Bodyguard rule shenanigans. In my mind, that's DEFINITELY not in the spirit of the game. My Tyrant Guard are up front and centered when the Hive Tyrant is present. Those guys can pound sand...

Although I do admit, I really do miss the old "Tyranid Pre-Game Chart" you rolled before the battle even began...It was hilarious, broken but hilarious.

Well it seems you can take some minor adjustments after you know your foe ( possibly after you see their List) so some old time fun to be had...

 Tyran wrote:
+5 if you combo with advance and charge.

The only issue is that we have so many good relics now that it is getting hard to choose.

So very true....


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 Brymm wrote:



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Oh but it appears these are all free upgrades? If that’s the case, if you’re going melee the double swords double scythes seems the best, otherwise the best all around is probably swords/spitter. I’m blown away that these are all basically free upgrades.

Tell me about it. I've got a sneaking suspicion that this is another GW trick...

Step 1) "Leak" the new codex...

Step 2) Get all the old bug players to buy more warriors since most of us probably have scything talons/spitter load-outs.

Step 3) Make profit.

Step 4) Release new codex, wait for a month, then nerf the ever loving gak out of them, while laughing all the way to the bank...

These codex leaks have been to me a wish list of what most Tryanid players have been wanting for a long time.

As good as warriors are, we do not even need them. As a whole the codex is very well balanced. A few subpar options, and even those can kinda work in niche scenarios.

Between Contrast paints being a godsend, and having some more cash, I decided to jump in to Nids. Picked up a Brood Swarm Box, grabbing the new combat patrol, and some other bits n bobs to build up.

I've got a HVC Foot Tyrant with Bonesword and Lashwhip.

What would be a good/the best loadout for a unit of Tyrant guard to pal around with the Tyrant? I'm leaning towards the Scything Talons, to help cut through hordes that might jam up a tyrant.