Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**N.I.B.**

Lance845 wrote:
The nerothrope might be 70 points, but rumors say cast 2 deny 2 with synapse and sitw with a 3++ (if its stat line stays the same).

Nope, that's the Maleceptor. And Neurothrope is 70pts.

Spoletta wrote:
N.I.B. wrote:
Just remember Devilgants need synapse within 24" to operate at full effect - a Trygon Prime may still have a role.

One of the things I'm most excited about is the Sporefield stratagem. I used the old Sporefield a lot in 7th ed, and now with 8th ed it's potentially a powerful tool that we've been missing in the index - 'Infiltrate'. The power to say 'no' to deepstriking units and push back first turn charges.

Would be nice to have a clarification on the timings of the Sporefield strategem - at the point you decide whether or not to use it, do you know if you go first or second? Because if you don't know if you go first, it's useless. You take this strategem to box in the opponent. But if your opponent go first he will just charge the screen (which has to be 12" away) and your sporefield just helped him to move even further, in exchange for a few mortal wounds.

Also, when your opponent has 'infiltrating' units of his own, like Nurglings - who gets to put his unit down first? That could also make a Sporefield useless.

Even if it comes after infiltrating units, and i think that this is the case, you can still block deepstrikers.

Not if they too have infiltrators, like Nurglings, and gets to place them before your Sporefield.

**Amishprn86**

You still can Block DSing tho....you roll off and then alternate its not like you wont get 1 in a good spot and its not like its always bad b.c 1-2 armies can do the same.

**N.I.B.**

Again - at the point you decide whether or not to use Sporefield, do you know if you go first or second? Because if you don't know if you go first, it's useless. You take this strategem to box in the opponent. But if your opponent go first he will just charge the screen (which has to be 12" away) and your sporefield just helped him to move even further, in exchange for a few mortal wounds.

Also, when your opponent has 'infiltrating' units of his own, like Nurglings - who gets to put his unit down first? That could also make a Sporefield useless.

**Amishprn86**

Thee are so many variables and we now have options, it was a good suggestion.

I personally love the Sporefield stratagem and most likely will take it everytime.

To answer your question tho, I know who has the "better" chance to go 1st b.c i can count drops and if i KNOW they are going to DS some crazy gak, i will deploy to counter that without the Sporefield, the Sporefield is bonus.

And the other player doesnt get to set up all his before me, you roll off, the winner places 1 unit 1st, then the other player and you repeat.

Again, its a good suggestion that will work, but just like ALL strategies, it wont work all the time, thats what makes a good player great, is knowing what to do and when.

**Zimko**

You might as well call this a rumor thread and make a new thread once the codex comes out. Otherwise we'll end up with 20 pages of speculation before we get to actual useful codex discussion.

**xmbk**

Amishprn86 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
It says in its rules Living Bombs: "If you are playing matched play games, the creation of new Spore Mines is free, and Spore Mine's points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points."

Clearly this is not referring to a new full size unit. The wording may allow it in the new codex, but I would not be surprised to see it FAQ'd away.

When a biovore shoots it's gun it creates a new unit of spore mines. The size of the unit doesn't matter/is irrelevant. It creates a new unit.

I understand what it is technically saying. I also know it was written before there was a stratagem for pregame units. I think it's reasonable to expect a FAQ, assuming it's not made clear somewhere in the codex.

I've been out giving candy just came back, its 3CP!!!!! 3!!! not 1, not 2 but 3!!! they are free.........

Come down from the candy high.

How big is the unit you get to drop for free?

**Niiai**

You get 2 units. The unit is base 3 mines, but you can buy 3 more. That is a potensial 12 mines. 12 " away.

Kraken general rule say you run with 3d6 picking the highest. Spore mines move base 1d6". If they end up within 3" of a model they will on averadge deal 1 mortal wound each.

So on 1d6 + highest of 3d6 you need to get 9. The averadge roll of 2d6 is 7. So chances are there that you pay 3 commandpoints for 12 mortal wounds. Asuming the opponent does not steal. If you want to you can use the kraken stratgem to make them run 2x, but now you are paying 5 command points for it.

It depends a bit on the timing if we know who goes first. But generally it will be high risk, potensially high reward. Putting 12 wounds on a tank before turn 1 can be good, Can also be countered by a screening unit.

Edit: Ops, had the wrong number.

**Zimko**

I thought spore mines had to be 12" away? That's how they deep strike with the index and the rumor from this threads front page says 12" for the stratagem.

So even if you try to use them to secure a place to deep strike, your opponents can still deny you a crucial 3 inches with their own infiltrators. You'll be able to get close enough to shoot but you'll be put of reach for charging. It's better than nothing but still not as good as normal infiltrators.

Also, spore mines have a movement of 3" unless there's been a leaked changed to their profile.

**Amishprn86**

It will depend on the Sporefield rule, the rule you are talking about if Float Down and it does say 12"

**Zimko**

Amishprn86 wrote:
It will depend on the Sporefield rule, the rule you are talking about if Float Down and it does say 12"

I edited my post to clarify. The spoiler we have so far says 12" for the strategem. Like everything in this thread, it'll depend on what the actual codex says.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For now, the stratagem is worthwhile as a means to deny enemy deep strikers if you have a lot of things in your backfield that you don't want to get charged on turn 1. But they'll be less useful for securing a place for your own deep strikers.

It may still be a necessity for the meta to have some kind of infiltrator so this 3 CP stratagem is unfortunately the only option we ha e so far. I'm just pointing out it's limitations.

**Amishprn86**

The leaks so far been pretty darn good, but some have had missing parts to them, i dont want to say yes one way or another until we see the details.

**Niiai**

The leaks are good... yes. But wrong information is a killer of motevation.

I was really looking forward to carnifex venom cannons with re-roll to hit and wound. Turns out that was wrong. Next I was hoping for cheap lictor transports. Turns out that was wrong. More wrong information will probably be in there.

**xmbk**

You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

**Niiai**

xmbk wrote:
You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

The problem with your argument is that the very reasons you give, is covered in the codex already. The codex specify how you pay for them. It say's you do not pay for them. Biovores makes spore mines, and the rules for making more spore mines ingame is already covered in the spore mines entry. That entry says they are free.

**Amishprn86**

xmbk wrote:
You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

Well i dont agree at all with that, b.c you CAN already DS them now WHILE paying for them, this means there is literally no point in using the CP... 3CP being an insane amount to do something you already can do.

The details i didnt want to talk about are "how close", "The size of the unit" etc...

**dan2026**

What is the purpose of the Mawloc?

You can pop up and maybe do a few mortal wounds to one or two units, then what?

You can't shoot or charge. So you will probably get destroyed the next turn.

I feel I'm missing something.

**Amishprn86**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/01/codex-tyranids-preview-day-3-commanding-your-swarm-nov-1gw-homepage-post-2/

**Marmatag**

Traceoftoxin wrote:
At 45 pts with 2 casts and 2 denies, Neurothropes are probably the best non-unique psykers in the game.

At 70 pts, they're still one of the best, but can't put out the volume of smite as the cheaper casters. Though they still deny at nearly the same efficiency (With the added -1 penalty within 18").

Depending on specifics, I think will be either very good, or best-in-game-conversation good.

That, of course, would also change with a smite nerf.

This sums it up.

If they get a points reduction, expect to see at least 3-5 in every list.

However, I would preach caution here, because a smite nerf seems inevitable.

My personal preference would be they give each discipline a spammable "primaris" power that's more in line with that the faction does, and have that capped at 3 casts, and have smite capped at 3 casts as Trace mentioned may be the nerf. But now we're talking game balance in the future, so i'll stop. But I do maintain that smite is really too strong on any platform less than 50 points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

As such, if you’re looking to add the Swarmlord, Red Terror, Deathleaper or Old One Eye to your army, you won’t be restricted by which hive fleet you choose!

Just want to repost this, since it was a topic of discussion earlier. This confirms that every single character is not restricted to a hive fleet. GREAT NEWS!!!!!!

These updates are amazing i am pumped. Hive Tyrants will live past turn 2!

I am super lost though.

I feel like double battalion is better than brigade because of the nature of the hive fleet buffs.

**Amishprn86**

dan2026 wrote:
What is the purpose of the Mawloc?

You can pop up and maybe do a few mortal wounds to one or two units, then what?

You can't shoot or charge. So you will probably get destroyed the next turn.

I feel I'm missing something.

If they bunker up you could get 4-5 units. Eldar, 2 units of Dark Reapers with a Warlock is a perfect example of why Mawlocs are good. Not only did you kill a couple guys and wounded the Warlock, but now they need to spend 300pts shooting at your 100pt model or die next turn. Or 4 units of Havocs, etc... killing 4-5 SM will get its points back and waste their shooting.

Edit: Grammar

**Niiai**

Can somebody clearefy the rules?

Kraken units kan roll 3d6 when advancing.

They can fall back and charge in the same turn.

But the way the rules are written, can all kraken models advance and charge in the same turn?

**str00dles1**

Yea, seeing that the characters can be whatever hive fleet is huge. Restricted to Levi, swarm lord was going to be total crap like he is now, but with this and his improved invuln hes much better elsewhere.

Niiai wrote:
Can somebody clearefy the rules?

Kraken units kan roll 3d6 when advancing.

They can fall back and charge in the same turn.

But the way the rules are written, can all kraken models advance and charge in the same turn?

I don't get the question?

They can fall back and charge.

Advance is part of your move, but you cant advance if you fall back. You only get to move your natural speed in any direction

**Lance845**

OP updated.

**Amishprn86**

Niiai wrote:
Can somebody clearefy the rules?

Kraken units kan roll 3d6 when advancing.

They can fall back and charge in the same turn.

But the way the rules are written, can all kraken models advance and charge in the same turn?

Fall back and charge, and you advancing are on 2 different turns....

You can Move>Advance>only charge if having a rule to let you

Your next movement >Fallback>Charge

**xmbk**

Niiai wrote:
xmbk wrote:
You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

The problem with your argument is that the very reasons you give, is covered in the codex already. The codex specify how you pay for them. It say's you do not pay for them. Biovores makes spore mines, and the rules for making more spore mines ingame is already covered in the spore mines entry. That entry says they are free.

Conflating index with codex is a mistake. They are free when a Biovore fires them. The codex is talking about deploying a unit.

**Lance845**

Niiai wrote:
Can somebody clearefy the rules?

Kraken units kan roll 3d6 when advancing.

They can fall back and charge in the same turn.

But the way the rules are written, can all kraken models advance and charge in the same turn?

It does not say they can advance and charge. simply that their advance and fall back is better.

**xmbk**

Amishprn86 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

Well i dont agree at all with that, b.c you CAN already DS them now WHILE paying for them, this means there is literally no point in using the CP... 3CP being an insane amount to do something you already can do.

The details i didnt want to talk about are "how close", "The size of the unit" etc...

Dropping them pregame is not the same as DS.

What do you mean by "details you didn't want to talk about"?

**Lance845**

xmbk wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
You're missing the point. No way the codex has a stratagem for dropping a unit of mines without specifying unit size or whether you pay for the mines with something other than CP. All this excitement is a bit premature. My bet is that you pay for those mines, which would make it situationally useful. The idea of units being bought with CP is just too outside the box.

Well i dont agree at all with that, b.c you CAN already DS them now WHILE paying for them, this means there is literally no point in using the CP... 3CP being an insane amount to do something you already can do.

The details i didnt want to talk about are "how close", "The size of the unit" etc...

Dropping them pregame is not the same as DS.

What do you mean by "details you didn't want to talk about"?

He means that we have had some details wrong in the leaks but the over all gist correct. We are not sure that it's a full unit of 6, a min unit of 3, or if spore mines can be taken in units of 10 again. We also don't know if they CP deploy at 12" or normal deepstrike of 9". The rumors have been solid enough that I am sure we have a strategem for dropping spore mines. How exactly that strategem works is up in the air.

**Niiai**

Lance845 wrote:
Niiai wrote:
Can somebody clearefy the rules?

Kraken units kan roll 3d6 when advancing.

They can fall back and charge in the same turn.

But the way the rules are written, can all kraken models advance and charge in the same turn?

It does not say they can advance and charge. simply that their advance and fall back is better.

Thanks. That was what I was expecting. I was just trying to rule out that the 'they can fall back and charge' is not tied to them advancing. If so, that would be insane.

**Marmatag**

You could think about it this way. You have a 70% chance to advance 5 or 6 inches with Kraken compared to 33% chance.

Of course none of this matters if you roll garbage advances, which is still possible. My opinion, it's one of the weaker traits, especially when you consider you lose out on really good stratagems (Kronos, Jormungandr), or really good overall traits (Behemot, Gorgon).

**Insectum7**

Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.