Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**Traceoftoxin**

Have we seen the verbiage for the Jorm strat? I haven't seen that pic yet.

**Zimko**

Indeed. Perhaps a deep striking hive tyrant or Trygon Prime followed up by neuros in those detachments. That gives quite a bit of smite spam to support the flood of gaunts that will hopefully remove screens

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this...

Behemoth battalion
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
30 devgaunts (in trygon)
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 ravs
3 ravs
3 ravs
Trygon Prine
3 biovores
2 biovores

Jormun Battalion
Old One Eye
Swarmlord
10 gaunts with glands
10 gaunts with glands
10 gaunts with glands
1 biovore

Supreme Kronos
3 Neurothropes

10 command points. You have the option of using those 3 10 man gaunts as a screen for the biovores and thropes or as an extra group of screen killers/melee attackers via the raveners tunnels that force stuff to fallback.
I take old one eye and Swarmlord because I love them at beatsticks and counter chargers. There's a lot of psychic support. I'd make a Kronos Neurothrope my warlord if I'm worried about psykers. Otherwise the malanthropes can be a warlord to deny slay the warlord.

I like flexibility and I feel like this strikes a nice TAC balance.

Edit: Moved a solo biovore to the other detachment so I can have 10 units on the board and 10 in reserves. Also, suffering IB just means he will miss more which is ok for biovores.

**Marmatag**

Spoletta wrote:
Hardly, i think that this is the same situation of the SM codex. They have the <Chapter> keyword and the adeptus astartes keyword. Theyr stratagems and relics RAW would apply also to Blood Angels since they share the Adeptus Astartes keyword, but they don't since in the codex it specifies that only the Adeptus Astartes from that book can benefit from it.
We could have an identical situation for tyranid keyword.

This is exactly what i've been trying to say.

GSC can't use IG stratagems and benefit from IG tactics like Vostroyen et al, so it stands to reason they can't benefit from Tyranids either.

**Niiai**

Can somebody please find out 2 things for me:

1. Is the Neuronthrope a Special character?

2. Is the warrior and ravnerer deathspitters 24" range, or it that only the MCs?

**Jacksmiles**

Death Guard can use CSM stratagems because they share <Heretic Astartes>. It all depends on the exact wording of the stratagem and the units/keywords it applies to.

I could see them saying GSC can't do it explicitly, but as of right now we're told that you gain access to stratagems by having a detachment that is fully X codex (and certain ones for specific chapters/legions/etc.), and then you can use those stratagems on anything the stratagems themselves specify.

It's really not worth planning around yet though.

**Amishprn86**

Niiai wrote:
Can somebody please find out 2 things for me:

1. Is the Neuronthrope a Special character?

2. Is the warrior and ravnerer deathspitters 24" range, or it that only the MCs?

The other days post showed the Neurothrope isnt special.

Non-MC Deathspitters are 24" according to the leaks.

**Razerous**

There is hope for Lictorshame!

Fingers crossed

**Drager**

luke1705 wrote:
What I like best about Tyranids is that we can reserve almost anything we like, and that we have a lot of solid choices in every slot, so you don’t have to take things just because they’re cheap.

Grab some exocrines in the heavy slot, or a dakkafex or three. I’m not super sold on biovores, but I’ll certainly give them a shot to see how those mortal wounds stack up. Could really make or break a game against a primarch.

Lictors as elites I think are mandatory now, but I’ll probably run a Hive Guard unit to double fire (just not in my main Brigade). Does the deathleaper count as a “lictor” for the lictor Strat? might be worth running if so.

Flyrants are amazing HQ choices again with the ability to deep strike and with fly meaning they always fire at full effect, plus malanthropes and Broodlords are excellent too. The HQ section is actually pretty bloated.

Gargoyles are a beautiful deep striking unit. No, they won’t “tarpit” things, but if those things can’t fall back and shoot, that’s a real issue. And if you get lucky, maybe you can wrap around and lock yourself in combat. It’s a real nuisance unit for only 60 points.

Rippers are the penultimate objective grabbers. Hormagants are awesome. Nothing more needs to be said about Genestealers, and now they got even more adaptable. Even the devilgant with just a ton of shooting is much better since you can fire them twice.

The more I look at this, the more I think that Tyranids absolutely have a solid place in the competitive scene

Interesting breakdown. Which unit do you think is better than rippers for objective grabbing? You say they are second best, but not which you think is best.

**Strat_N8**

Marmatag wrote:

GSC can't use IG stratagems and benefit from IG tactics like Vostroyen et al, so it stands to reason they can't benefit from Tyranids either.

The FAQ didn't prohibit GSC from using stratagems, just the <Regiment> specific ones as the <Regiment> in all instances is replaced with <Brood Brothers>. The more limiting factor in the case of the AM/IG stratagems is that there are only a handful that can work due to most of them requiring the Astra Militarium keyword to use them(Go! Recon! being one of the few that works on both) but the Tyranid ones don't have that problem.

There is also president for Stratagems working cross faction provided you meet the targeting keywords thanks to the Death Guard FAQ.

Also not entirely tactics related, but does anyone have any idea as to which fleet this color scheme belongs to?

It reminds me a lot of one I saw in a painting blog I remember reading years ago (around 5th edition). Would be interesting if it became an official one.

**Ratius**

Im confused/disappointed in the Carnis melee options.
Using MCCs without a charge hes hitting on 5s with 4 attacks so likely a whopping singular hit. With a charge improves slightly to 4+.
Taking MSTs hes hitting on 4s but only at str6. On a charge this improves to 3+.

Am I missing something here? Unless you guarantee a charge why would one take MCCs? If you need to hurt that T7-8 vehicle creature MSTs dont cut it.

**Strat_N8**

Ratius wrote:
Im confused/disappointed in the Carnis melee options.
Using MCCs without a charge hes hitting on 5s with 4 attacks so likely a whopping singular hit. With a charge improves slightly to 4+.
Taking MSTs hes hitting on 4s but only at str6. On a charge this improves to 3+.

Am I missing something here? Unless you guarantee a charge why would one take MCCs? If you need to hurt that T7-8 vehicle creature MSTs dont cut it.

To be fair, in most instances you probably will be charging given how easy it is to fall back from combat it is, so realistically the bonus to-hit will be in play and if it isn't, it is probably because they are charging with something that will kill the Carni in one go anyway. Still, I think the intent is probably for Haruspexes to provide the melee-based can opener while the Carnifex is more at home as a hybrid gun platform that can fight if needed (excluding Stonecrushers).

**Lance845**

So right now I am considering, without any particular detachment because I want to wait for points to really hammer out the exact thing... but

A supreme command with 4 neurothropes and a malanthrope. Maybe switch that to 3 neurothropes and 2 malanthropes depending on... things.

2 Ravener Broods (maybe 3)
2 30 man devilgant blobs
A hormagaunt brood with the 3rd maybe

Trygon Prime
30 Man Hormagaunt brood

2 exocrines

1 or 2 Hive Tyrants. One will probably have the miasma cannon.

Dakkafexes.to fill it out if I have any room.

**Niiai**

Strat_N8 wrote:
Marmatag wrote:

GSC can't use IG stratagems and benefit from IG tactics like Vostroyen et al, so it stands to reason they can't benefit from Tyranids either.

The FAQ didn't prohibit GSC from using stratagems, just the <Regiment> specific ones as the <Regiment> in all instances is replaced with <Brood Brothers>. The more limiting factor in the case of the AM/IG stratagems is that there are only a handful that can work due to most of them requiring the Astra Militarium keyword to use them(Go! Recon! being one of the few that works on both) but the Tyranid ones don't have that problem.

There is also president for Stratagems working cross faction provided you meet the targeting keywords thanks to the Death Guard FAQ.

Also not entirely tactics related, but does anyone have any idea as to which fleet this color scheme belongs to?

It reminds me a lot of one I saw in a painting blog I remember reading years ago (around 5th edition). Would be interesting if it became an official one.

It is not one of the 7 names. But it looks like a hydra scheme. https://imgur.com/a/0S7OG

**Marmatag**

We simply don't have the weight of dice to get by killing vehicles (T7/T8) in melee with monstrous creatures.

Either surround with melee like GS or HGants, or hit with Tyrannofex from range.

**Niiai**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Niiai wrote:
Can somebody please find out 2 things for me:

1. Is the Neuronthrope a Special character?

2. Is the warrior and ravnerer deathspitters 24" range, or it that only the MCs?

The other days post showed the Neurothrope isnt special.

Non-MC Deathspitters are 24" according to the leaks.

Thank you. :-)

**Zimko**

Lance845 wrote:
So right now I am considering, without any particular detachment because I want to wait for points to really hammer out the exact thing... but

A supreme command with 4 neurothropes and a malanthrope. Maybe switch that to 3 neurothropes and 2 malanthropes depending on... things.

2 Ravener Broods (maybe 3)
2 30 man devilgant blobs
A hormagaunt brood with the 3rd maybe

Trygon Prime
30 Man Hormagaunt brood

2 exocrines

1 or 2 Hive Tyrants. One will probably have the miasma cannon.

Dakkafexes.to fill it out if I have any room.

That's similar to my thinking. It covers all the competitive bases. Chaf clearing, smite spamming, psyker shut down, and lots of bodies for objectives.

The only thing I worry about is infiltrators messing up our deep strike deployment. But at least devourers are 18 inch range.

**njtrader**

So what's the consensus on Mono-Hive Fleet adaptations? Jorm seems really good.

Any ideas?

**Zimko**

njtrader wrote:
So what's the consensus on Mono-Hive Fleet adaptations? Jorm seems really good.

Any ideas?

If you're gonna go mono, I'd say Jorm for shooty lists and the 3d6 pick highest to advance one for melee lists...Kraken?

**Jin**

Ratius wrote:
Im confused/disappointed in the Carnis melee options.
Using MCCs without a charge hes hitting on 5s with 4 attacks so likely a whopping singular hit. With a charge improves slightly to 4+.
Taking MSTs hes hitting on 4s but only at str6. On a charge this improves to 3+.

Am I missing something here? Unless you guarantee a charge why would one take MCCs? If you need to hurt that T7-8 vehicle creature MSTs dont cut it.

I ran numbers, and no, you're not missing anything. In most situations, the 2xMSTs are better than the MCC's. The only situation in which the MCC's are better are if you get the charge.

Even on the charge, against T7/8, the MCC's are only marginally better, on average.

From what I could see, though, merely having the MCC's hit on 4+ or better makes them better than MSTs. It's the moment you drop them to hitting on 5's that it gets worse.

**Marmatag**

The adaptations are pretty much all good honestly from an army-wide buff standpoint.

What will really differentiate for you are the hive-fleet specific stratagems that you can use, based on how your army plays.

I was originally thinking Jormungandr is auto-take, but there are some really nice stratagems, warlord traits, and relics, available to the other ones so far, too. Gorgon has the ability to make your hive tyrant Toughness 8, and a 6+ feel no pain is just as good as a +1 to save for chaff, and overall better for units that will be relying on an invlun save already, or not eligible because they'll be charging, or in melee.

My list post codex so far will have at least 90 gants with 60 being hormagants. We're still lacking in anti-tank firepower, and these guys can invalidate quite a few vehicles by just getting into melee, which might be possible now. 30 dakkagants to clear the chaff with 180 shots. then, charging in with the hormagants, assisted by Swarmlord double move + advance + charge.

So how are you going to win? Getting a few extra saves might really make the difference, but by in large, saving an extra 3-4 gants is not as big as making that charge you would have failed, by rerolling, or getting an extra 18" of movement in advances over the course of a game, per unit.

I guess what i'm saying is more information is needed before committing to a hive fleet. Specifically warlord traits, stratagems, and relics.

**Tyran**

Ratius wrote:
Im confused/disappointed in the Carnis melee options.
Using MCCs without a charge hes hitting on 5s with 4 attacks so likely a whopping singular hit. With a charge improves slightly to 4+.
Taking MSTs hes hitting on 4s but only at str6. On a charge this improves to 3+.

Am I missing something here? Unless you guarantee a charge why would one take MCCs? If you need to hurt that T7-8 vehicle creature MSTs dont cut it.

MCC are better anti-tank than MST, as the X2 strength more than makes it up for the -1 to hit against high toughness targets.

Although Stone Crushers are still the best melee AT we have.

**Xenomancers**

Help me understand - why are we taking hormagaunts?

**njtrader**

I think for swarming. Gaunts are good in huge numbers, especially with the Kraken rolls... Just swamp them in melee and chuck tons of dice.

I'm not 100% sold on Kraken yet. I have a feeling Jorm will be the best overall, but not entirely sure. Tis book has excellent internal balance. Jorm is great for defense - if you've taking the bigger stuff, not just tides of hormagaunts/termagaunts....

The the strats for the rest are sweet, and Kronos seems good against brimstone/psyker spam.

**Xenomancers**

I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

**Marmatag**

Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

**Xenomancers**

Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

Geenstealers can advance and charge though. So they are much better to use with the swarm-lord first turn charge tactic right?

Can you run 10 point geen stealers? If you don't give them rending talons?

**Marmatag**

Xenomancers wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

Geenstealers can advance and charge though. So they are much better to use with the swarm-lord first turn charge tactic right?

Can you run 10 point geen stealers? If you don't give them rending talons?

No their claws come stock, can't drop them.

If you really want to advance + charge, you can do that with Onslaught. The nice thing is, if you're pairing with Swarmlord and onslaught, you'll know if you've manifested onslaught successfully before you advance.

**Zimko**

Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

Geenstealers can advance and charge though. So they are much better to use with the swarm-lord first turn charge tactic right?

Can you run 10 point geen stealers? If you don't give them rending talons?

No their claws come stock, can't drop them.

If you really want to advance + charge, you can do that with Onslaught. The nice thing is, if you're pairing with Swarmlord and onslaught, you'll know if you've manifested onslaught successfully before you advance.

Not quite. Advance is done in the movement phase. So that is only true if you don't advance in the movement phase. Then advance in the shooting phase with the Swarmlord's ability after knowing if onslaught worked. It's safer but also not as quick.

**Marmatag**

Zimko wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

Geenstealers can advance and charge though. So they are much better to use with the swarm-lord first turn charge tactic right?

Can you run 10 point geen stealers? If you don't give them rending talons?

No their claws come stock, can't drop them.

If you really want to advance + charge, you can do that with Onslaught. The nice thing is, if you're pairing with Swarmlord and onslaught, you'll know if you've manifested onslaught successfully before you advance.

Not quite. Advance is done in the movement phase. So that is only true if you don't advance in the movement phase. Then advance in the shooting phase with the Swarmlord's ability after knowing if onslaught worked. It's safer but also not as quick.

This is what i meant.

Your movement phase will be popping out of reserves, 9" away from the enemy. Then you manifest onslaught. Then you clear the chaff with your dakka, and move + advance the horms.

It's better with genestealers for killing. 100% better. But they might be overkill against HWT, and tying up Tprimes you want more bodies to survive overwatch, and the 6" consolidate.

**McGibs**

What do people think of jorm carapace stealers for a 3+ save? Just accept you wont get the 1st turn charge with them, and send them in with ravanor tunnles or a trygon.