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Are lictors good? I am not being sarcastick. I just don't know how to value them.

No, i just like them lol, i have like 6-7 of them

Yeah, lictors are a kind of specialist redundancy package when it comes to that strategem, there to fall back on if you need it rather than being something to plan around. One goood thing I have noticed with many of the new strategems is now opponents will REALLY have to think about where they go, as we have quite a few ways of just suddenly appearing out of nowhere.

Saying that, I'm not at all a matched play kinda guy and round here we all play power level narrative games, meaning i`ll most likely combo lictors with call the brood for example coz hey! free stealers

 Niiai wrote:
Are lictors good? I am not being sarcastick. I just don't know how to value them.

They are absolutely amazing. Yes, you need to be able to put a unit into reserves somehow in the first place (Jormungdr pre-game strat, Genestealer infestation nodes, GSC Cult Ambush, etc) but redirecting units that are in reserve MUCH further forward than they might otherwise be able to deploy (like with a bad CA roll, or just any of the other two methods) is actually make or break for competitive Nids IMO. Like real top tier competitive.

The only issue would be if they FAQ the Lictor to need to be on the board the turn prior to when you taxi the unit. Then they're hot garbage. Thankfully, as is, that is not the case currently. But that would be a truly sad FAQ.

But tbh, then we would just use Raveners for roughly double the points. It would suck a lot more, but being able to deny the alpha strike is the name of the game this edition. We are actually exceptional at that. My competitive list will have exactly 4 unit types deployed on the board, ideally 3 if I can have enough of the other kinds:

1) Mucolid Spores/spore mines. They don't give up first blood or any sort of victory points, and spore mines can even be hidden reasonably well. Could block turn 2 deep strike (or turn 1 if your opponent makes you go first)
2) Biovores. Solo squads fill up a brigade so fast and cheap....and allow more deep striking units. Also they will 100% not be in LOS turn 1
3) Hive Guard. I'm a little less sold on these guys. I probably will run a single squad for the double tap strat and because they can fire out of LOS too, which is huge.
4) Rippers. Easy to hide, Obsec. The best thing to do would be to deep strike them, but I consistently need to steal like 1 or 2 units to deploy so that the rest of my army can deep strike.


Imagine being a shooty army (which is almost all armies right now). I give you my spore mines. They deny deep strike, and the rest of my army hides out of LOS. What do you do? It's 90% as good as the all drop pod armies of old. Literally nothing to shoot at unless you can kill things out of LOS.

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Something a lot of people aren't really taking into consideration is what to do if our deep strike is denied.

Almost all armies have reliable ways to place scout units in front of their army so that we cannot deep strike anywhere near them.

All Tyranid armies must be built with this in mind, being able to deploy entirely on the field, or heavily in reserve.

This counter DS tactics can also actually be used against the opponent.

If you are running GS and hormagaunts, and they place scouts midfield to deny the DS, you can use those DS to not only get further, but also protect against shooting.

So, what you do is move up the GS and hormagaunts, charge GS in first, but ONLY MAKE CONTACT WITH ONE MODEL. Do not get any other model within 1" of that model. We just want to have our unit within 1" so it cannot be shot. You follow this by bringing up the hormagaunts and using the minimum amount of models to completely surround the unit, or surround a single model (So that it cannot move out of 1"). By doing this, you prevent the enemy from falling back in their turn, and your units are now safe from enemy shooting. You can pile in and wipe them during their fight phase. If you are kraken, you can just fall back off of them and continue moving forward (Including repeating the trick if you need to with the tail elements of the units).

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Something a lot of people aren't really taking into consideration is what to do if our deep strike is denied.

Almost all armies have reliable ways to place scout units in front of their army so that we cannot deep strike anywhere near them.

All Tyranid armies must be built with this in mind, being able to deploy entirely on the field, or heavily in reserve.

This counter DS tactics can also actually be used against the opponent.

If you are running GS and hormagaunts, and they place scouts midfield to deny the DS, you can use those DS to not only get further, but also protect against shooting.

So, what you do is move up the GS and hormagaunts, charge GS in first, but ONLY MAKE CONTACT WITH ONE MODEL. Do not get any other model within 1" of that model. We just want to have our unit within 1" so it cannot be shot. You follow this by bringing up the hormagaunts and using the minimum amount of models to completely surround the unit, or surround a single model (So that it cannot move out of 1"). By doing this, you prevent the enemy from falling back in their turn, and your units are now safe from enemy shooting. You can pile in and wipe them during their fight phase. If you are kraken, you can just fall back off of them and continue moving forward (Including repeating the trick if you need to with the tail elements of the units).

Kraken flying hives and hormagaunts. Screening units might even help us in this case.

Lictors are also the cheapest choice for an elite slot for brigade purposes so there's that.

What exactly do Lictors do nowadays?

And how tough/strong are they.. I loved to use the models before, I understand now they ignore IB which is awesome!

Razerous wrote:
What exactly do Lictors do nowadays?

And how tough/strong are they.. I loved to use the models before, I understand now they ignore IB which is awesome!

A single big genestealer with DS basically.... they DS in and try to do some damage.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Kraken flying hives and hormagaunts. Screening units might even help us in this case.

Yep. The point is to be flexible enough to turn those screening units from a hindrance into an advantage.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
What exactly do Lictors do nowadays?

And how tough/strong are they.. I loved to use the models before, I understand now they ignore IB which is awesome!

A single big genestealer with DS basically.... they DS in and try to do some damage.

And the pheromone tail rule?

@ Traceoftoxin, how does that help fix the Deepstrike issue?

Razerous wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
What exactly do Lictors do nowadays?

And how tough/strong are they.. I loved to use the models before, I understand now they ignore IB which is awesome!

A single big genestealer with DS basically.... they DS in and try to do some damage.

And the pheromone tail rule?

Thats gone.... lol, there will be a 1 CP version of it for a unit that is already in reserves.....

Anyone else thinking muciolid spores might be a fun use for the pheremone trail rule? Get those mortal wounds nice and close.

 buddha wrote:
Anyone else thinking muciolid spores might be a fun use for the pheremone trail rule? Get those mortal wounds nice and close.

You sir, might be a genius!

1 cmp place lictor, place spore mines 9" from enemy.
1cmp use the 2x move stragem that prevents charging and shooting. Roll a 3+ on your run. Now you are 6 near enemies. Mortal wounds abound!

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Where are the rumors about the lictors/ravener taxi?
Can’t find em and they are not on the 1st page

Read the lictor stratagem a coupel of times. It does not work the way you think on the first read.

For what I understood it makes a raveners like a trygon for 1 CP, but your comment is making me feel insecure about it..

 Dynas wrote:
@ Traceoftoxin, how does that help fix the Deepstrike issue?

You counter the counter. If you 100% rely on deepstrike, you will get 100% shut down if they counter it. By being flexible with your deployments, you can take advantage of their counter deployment to gain movement and protection from shooting.

 Emicrania wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Where are the rumors about the lictors/ravener taxi?
Can’t find em and they are not on the 1st page

Read the lictor stratagem a coupel of times. It does not work the way you think on the first read.

For what I understood it makes a raveners like a trygon for 1 CP, but your comment is making me feel insecure about it..

Ravnares work like you think. But liktors need the unit to be already in reserve. And their stratagem needs an FAQ if you can use it the same turn as you place it (as we currently can do)

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Where are the rumors about the lictors/ravener taxi?
Can’t find em and they are not on the 1st page

Read the lictor stratagem a coupel of times. It does not work the way you think on the first read.

For what I understood it makes a raveners like a trygon for 1 CP, but your comment is making me feel insecure about it..

Ravnares work like you think. But liktors need the unit to be already in reserve. And their stratagem needs an FAQ if you can use it the same turn as you place it (as we currently can do)

So lictors can’t be used as a taxi and cannot be placed wherever as per alpha strike, because another unit need to be there a turn before?

 Emicrania wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Where are the rumors about the lictors/ravener taxi?
Can’t find em and they are not on the 1st page

Read the lictor stratagem a coupel of times. It does not work the way you think on the first read.

For what I understood it makes a raveners like a trygon for 1 CP, but your comment is making me feel insecure about it..

Ravnares work like you think. But liktors need the unit to be already in reserve. And their stratagem needs an FAQ if you can use it the same turn as you place it (as we currently can do)

So lictors can’t be used as a taxi and cannot be placed wherever as per alpha strike, because another unit need to be there a turn before?

Almost. Currently the wording is that a lictor can be placed the same turn and then you use pheremon trail. It is unclear if this is RAW or RAI, so an FAQ can change this.

The lictor can only affect units that are not ealreayd placed on the table. But it does not give deep strike to any unit. So you need to find units that start in reserve. (Genestealer nodes, genestealer cult, spore mines etc.)

So, for units in reserve.. .i.e. Ripper swarms or Trygon-assisted Tyranid Warriors (as an example); the Lictor allows what?

A unit to be placed within x" of the Lictor, no matter how close to the enemy unit?

Because (if so) sweet!

Ok i am playing with this, taking an HQ detacahment of like 3 Nueronthropes and making them Kronus and just spread them out to put on the Kronus SitW Debuff.

Or
Patrol
Flyrnat with the Balethron cannon make him the warlord
3x Rippers

Spread the rippers out and you can easily cover the board with the 24" bubbles and shut down enemy pyskic phase.

I like the later better for the gun and Warlord traits and strategems. Plus its only 250 points, You can still get a Brigade with whatever other fleet you want.

This can easily make Eldar, Grey Knights, Tzeetch, Smite Spam list crumble for such cheap points.

Razerous wrote:
So, for units in reserve.. .i.e. Ripper swarms or Trygon-assisted Tyranid Warriors (as an example); the Lictor allows what?

A unit to be placed within x" of the Lictor, no matter how close to the enemy unit?

Because (if so) sweet!

Nooooooope. 9" away. If you take a trygon for warriors you can use the lictor. But if they are in a tyrgon taxi, why pay the command point for mr. lictor? That is why I preface that it does not work like you think it works when you first read it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dynas wrote:
Ok i am playing with this, taking an HQ detacahment of like 3 Nueronthropes and making them Kronus and just spread them out to put on the Kronus SitW Debuff.

Or
Patrol
Flyrnat with the Balethron cannon make him the warlord
3x Rippers

Spread the rippers out and you can easily cover the board with the 24" bubbles and shut down enemy pyskic phase.

I like the later better for the gun and Warlord traits and strategems. Plus its only 250 points, You can still get a Brigade with whatever other fleet you want.

This can easily make Eldar, Grey Knights, Tzeetch, Smite Spam list crumble for such cheap points.

Kronos spore mines can use the stratagem though? OMG! Have a biovore drop spore mines. Go Kronos!

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Haha, sorry! I always use 2x MST and AG with the flyrant. Thats were the 195pts comes from.

Good points!

 Emicrania wrote:
Where are the rumors about the lictors/ravener taxi?
Can’t find em and they are not on the 1st page

Yeah sorry about that. A day or so after the rumors stopped coming I decided it would be good to start switching over to the actual tactics instead of rumors since we got almost everything actually confirmed. I am still updating the first post to have the data in there.

Lictor Taxi is he pheromone trail stratagem.

Raveners is the jormungandr stratagem.

NackaNid wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Haha, sorry! I always use 2x MST and AG with the flyrant. Thats were the 195pts comes from.

Good points!

I am not saying your points are wrong, i was questioning mine lol. Just trying to see if the 3++ invul in CC and SL power to have a unit move is worth 60-80 points. Plus with the HT with Boneswords, you can pick any Warlord trait you want. I might be missing something, but I will definitely look into this when the codex drops. I personally don't think the extra +1 invul and the power is worth the extra points. Especially since there are all kinds of traits to buff your units now.

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Haha, sorry! I always use 2x MST and AG with the flyrant. Thats were the 195pts comes from.

Good points!

I am not saying your points are wrong, i was questioning mine lol. Just trying to see if the 3++ invul in CC and SL power to have a unit move is worth 60-80 points. Plus with the HT with Boneswords, you can pick any Warlord trait you want. I might be missing something, but I will definitely look into this when the codex drops. I personally don't think the extra +1 invul and the power is worth the extra points. Especially since there are all kinds of traits to buff your units now.

You know, the rumor said he had to have the leviathan wl trait. But when I saw the datasheet in one of the leaks it didn't say that anywhere on there. Curious if that bit is true.

GW confirmed a few days ago that all named characters "swarmlord/one eye" can be from any hive fleet you want

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Haha, sorry! I always use 2x MST and AG with the flyrant. Thats were the 195pts comes from.

Good points!

I am not saying your points are wrong, i was questioning mine lol. Just trying to see if the 3++ invul in CC and SL power to have a unit move is worth 60-80 points. Plus with the HT with Boneswords, you can pick any Warlord trait you want. I might be missing something, but I will definitely look into this when the codex drops. I personally don't think the extra +1 invul and the power is worth the extra points. Especially since there are all kinds of traits to buff your units now.

You know, the rumor said he had to have the leviathan wl trait. But when I saw the datasheet in one of the leaks it didn't say that anywhere on there. Curious if that bit is true.

It will be on the warlord trait page.