Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**Scallywag**

I am considering to start a Tyranid army (Behemoth). Can somebody tell me if it is possible to place 9 Tyranid Warriors/30 Hormagaunts within 3" of a Trygon without blocking its assault line?

**Strat_N8**

pinecone77 wrote:

Jormondgandr: Gunline, and tunnel assault

I think I'd put Jormungandr as "Beta Strike" specialist more than gunline or tunnels specifically. The cover bonus helps weather the first turn firestorm while their ability to deploy any infantry unit in the tunnel networks allows them to hold their heavy hitters in reserve where they can't be gunned off the table or tied up in a first turn charge.

pinecone77 wrote:

Hydra: Is a Hive Fleet. Currently only good for "PL" play

I'm actually starting to wonder about their Stratagem, having gotten a chance to use it without reinforcement points last week in a PL game. I only used it once, but it won the game by dropping a 30-strong Termagant blob on the opponent's backfield in range to contest their home objective. Purely theoretical, but it could perhaps be used as a mock outflank stratagem that allows you to use the outflanking unit while it is on the table and then redeploy it when destroyed. Using it in such a way would require a full out swarm list though to provide enough durability to make up for the points set aside to power the stratagem but it might be fun to try.

I'm considering trying such a list this upcoming game night with the following mess:

Spoiler:

Currently sits at 1880, so 120 points left over to spend on respawns and 240 bodies starting on the table to soak firepower. Malanthrope would probably be the Warlord and babysit the shooting bugs (hopefully hiding out of sight) while the Neurothropes drive the swarm onwards. Comically enough, the extra units being off table until respawned actually might be useful without any gimmicks in mind, as I doubt I'll have enough table space to fit much more.

This could be fun... Might tinker with the points a bit to see if I can free up a few more for the respawn pool to provide more options.

Scallywag wrote:
I am considering to start a Tyranid army (Behemoth). Can somebody tell me if it is possible to place 9 Tyranid Warriors/30 Hormagaunts within 3" of a Trygon without blocking its assault line?

Nine Warriors should be doable but 30 Hormagaunts will probably require completely surrounding the Trygon to place.

**luke1705**

Scallywag wrote:
I am considering to start a Tyranid army (Behemoth). Can somebody tell me if it is possible to place 9 Tyranid Warriors/30 Hormagaunts within 3" of a Trygon without blocking its assault line?

Both are doable. Hormagants are nice because they really need that pile-in to get the most out of the fact that so many of them are far behind the Trygon.

Just a bit of friendly advice - something I noticed in my local meta is that Trygons are tough to utilize fully because my opponents learned how to bring screening units (bubble wrap). If all your Trygon does is charges and helps the hormagants to kill some more scouts....probably not making his points back. Of course, the utility of giving hormagants or the like a turn 1 charge is nice.

But if I was looking to get a turn 1 charge, I would use Gargoyles. They have native deep strike for only 1 more point per model, and those hormagants aren't likely to kill a whole ton themselves.

I also have used Trygons to transport Genestealers, and man those guys are blenders!

For my deep strike needs, I've enjoyed using Jormungandr. Grab a squad of 5-6 Raveners, dedicate some CP, and enjoy your WHOLE ARMY (well half of it) coming of of nowhere! Not as likely to make the turn 1 charge, but I really underestimated that +1 armor save. So amazing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Strat_N8 wrote:

I'm actually starting to wonder about their Stratagem, having gotten a chance to use it without reinforcement points last week in a PL game. I only used it once, but it won the game by dropping a 30-strong Termagant blob on the opponent's backfield in range to contest their home objective.

In the alpha strike meta, dropping down a 30 man unit on turn 3/4/5 is actually a really big deal. There are a LOT less amazing things that you could do with 120 points.

Remember that this works with 30 Termagants, 24 Hormagants or 20 Gargoyles. Gives you flexibility because the unit gets to outflank the unit when it deploys the second time, which is perfect for late game objective grabs if you place them properly pre-game.

It's not like regular reserves where this needs to happen on turn 3, so if you go second, that's extra huge. Tbh, I'm not sure if I'd do it on Termagants, but Horms and Gargoyles are literally doomed to die by turn 2 or 3. That's their job, and if they don't....well that's even more amazing. In the ITC format, where you're probably trying to take small squads of 19 or less, that's 114 points for Gargoyles or 95 points for hormagants. I would probably choose which one I wanted to do and incorporate it into my list points.

**Scallywag**

Thank you very much.

The first draft of my (competitive) 2k list looks like this:

Battallion Detachment (Behemoth)

Hive Tyrant with Wings (Warlord): Monstrous Hunger, Scythes of Tyran, two Devourers with brainleech Worms, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 208
Hive Tyrant with Wings: Monstrous rending claws, two Devourers with brainleech Worms, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 193

9 Tyranid Warriors: Boneswords, Deathspitters, Adrenal glands - 252
9 Tyranid Warriors: Boneswords, Deathspitters, Adrenal glands - 252
30 Termagants - 120
11 Termagants - 44
10 Termagants - 40
10 Termagants - 40

20 Gargoyles - 120

Trygon: Prehensile pincer tail, Adrenal glands - 173
Trygon: Prehensile pincer tail, Adrenal glands - 173

Battallion Detachment (Behemoth)

Hive Tyrant with Wings: Monstrous rending claws, two Devourers with brainleech Worms, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 193
Neurothrope - 70

10 Termagants 40
10 Termagants 40
10 Termagants 40

2000 points in total and 9 Command Points

The Termagants and Gargoyles give me really good board control and all the important units can deep strike.

The concept relys on the combination of the Behemoth Adaptation and Adrenal glands. That's why I prefer Tyranid Warriors over Genestealers. They have a ~18% higher chance to get into close combat and can at least always shoot.

Hormagaunts are cool, but without the second Warrior unit the list lacks some punch and I can't afford a third Trygon. I would also like to increase the Gargoyles to 30 models to make better use of the Behemoth Stratagem...

It's quite a good start, but I am not entirely happy yet. I could replace 3 units of Termagants with Biovores, but the models are really expensive and I don't want to spend 100€ on 1/20 of my army.

What do you think?

**jifel**

I would definitely drop some of the chaff Termagants units to invest in Biovores or Hive Guard to give your list a little more shooty presence. Also, Biovores can be converted from HG to be easier on the wallet.

**luke1705**

Dropping a Hive Tyrant for a Neurothrope and the 3 smallest squads of termagants would give you 5 Hive Guard. Finding 40ish more points would give you a 6th.

Right now, your list has nothing to take advantage of single-minded annihilation, which is one of our strongest stratagems.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, swapping out 2 Trygons for 1 big ravener squad should give you the points you need to get an entire mess of Biovores. You'd need a Jormungdr Battalion though, and not everyone is a huge fan of mixed hive fleets.

**Scallywag**

jifel wrote:
I would definitely drop some of the chaff Termagants units to invest in Biovores or Hive Guard to give your list a little more shooty presence. Also, Biovores can be converted from HG to be easier on the wallet.

I agree on dropping some Termagants. ~60 + the Gargoyles should be enough. I don't think that I need more shooting, though. The list focuses on melee and already has enough shooting to clear chaff. I am even considering to replace one unit of Warriors with 20 Genestealers to save some more money, since they are already included in the Start Collecting box. It also gives my army some more variety.

luke1705 wrote:
Dropping a Hive Tyrant for a Neurothrope and the 3 smallest squads of termagants would give you 5 Hive Guard. Finding 40ish more points would give you a 6th.

Right now, your list has nothing to take advantage of single-minded annihilation, which is one of our strongest stratagems.

Also, swapping out 2 Trygons for 1 big ravener squad should give you the points you need to get an entire mess of Biovores. You'd need a Jormungdr Battalion though, and not everyone is a huge fan of mixed hive fleets.

I really want to keep the 3 Hive Tyrants. They are one of the main reasons why I want to start Tyranids.

The Warriors will use the Single-minded Annihilation Stratagem. This gives them 27 additional Deathspitter shots, which is not bad at all.

Hive Guard is cool, but in my opinion they are not optimal/needed in a Behemoth list and I don't want to mix Hive Fleets.

I will post an updated list later.

**Badablack**

I used tyrannofex gun arms with legs and heads glued on for my biovores. Big stationary grubs firing balloons out of their bug butts. I think the eBay bits sites caught on and raised their prices after I bought all their previous stock though.

**Eldarain**

Was thinking of just having some Big Gribbly guns looking like they are breaking through the ground and the bulk of the creature is burrowed.

**luke1705**

Scallywag wrote:

I really want to keep the 3 Hive Tyrants. They are one of the main reasons why I want to start Tyranids.

The Warriors will use the Single-minded Annihilation Stratagem. This gives them 27 additional Deathspitter shots, which is not bad at all.

Hive Guard is cool, but in my opinion they are not optimal/needed in a Behemoth list and I don't want to mix Hive Fleets.

Valid. IMO it's a little sub-optimal to have warriors shoot twice, but it is a lot of shots. I also think that Hive Guard are still good in Behemoth, but I do respect you not wanting to mix hive fleets.

And hey, keeping a unit because you think they're cool is always a good reason to field a unit. For what it's worth, a flyrant as you've loaded it out is definitely a good unit. They might not be the best possible use of 200ish points, but they're certainly far from awful.

Would definitely be interested in hearing more about how your warriors fare once you get them rocking. I have a feeling that they're under appreciated for what they bring to the table (myself included)

**Strat_N8**

luke1705 wrote:

Tbh, I'm not sure if I'd do it on Termagants, but Horms and Gargoyles are literally doomed to die by turn 2 or 3. That's their job, and if they don't....well that's even more amazing.

In the initial game with Hydra my list was originally intended as a Kronos list but the decision to use PL made it seem like a good time to test out Hydra, hence having a lot of Termagants around to protect the gunline. In a more optimized list (with sufficient models available) a mix of Hydra Hormagaunts and Gargoyles would probably be better given both are fast enough to deliver themselves and Gargoyles especially like the Hydra adaptation.

Thinking I might swap the Impaler cannons for Shock Cannons in the prior Hydra swarm list. Makes them cheaper which makes them possible respawn targets along with the gaunts.

**Spoletta**

If you are going to use the stratagem on warriors then consider putting venom cannons in there and possibly a prime. They can form a really good hybrid shooting/Assault platform.

**luke1705**

Strat,

Remember that for termagants, Gargoyles and hormagants you can do that stratagem in any hive fleet.

So something like jormungandr where they’re annoyingly difficult to remove the first time....and then they just come back later? GROSS.

One use for Endless Swarm that I hadn’t really thought of is a late game unit of Devilgants. I mean...imagine saving 4 CP for those dudes to come on turn 4/5 and double firing. Talk about a game winner! Sure, you’re playing down 240 points for much of the game, but since the spawned unit is the same as the original, it should still be obsec too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or if you need to do it on turn 2 or 3 because thosw buggers got focused down early, go for it! What I really like about this ability is being able to outflank for free. 100% worth it in many lists IMO. Only downside is not having that troops choice count towards your battalion, but let’s be real. We all needed another ripper unit anyhow

**Niiai**

The strat works with pheromon trail right? Must be good with devil gaunts in some configuration.

**Strat_N8**

luke1705 wrote:Strat,

Remember that for termagants, Gargoyles and hormagants you can do that stratagem in any hive fleet.

So something like jormungandr where they’re annoyingly difficult to remove the first time....and then they just come back later? GROSS.

True I forgot about that. Not sure I would use it with Jormungandr though as they tend to be a bit starved for command points in my experience, though having the unit pop up with the benefits of cover does have some appeal.

While the prior list doesn't really take advantage of it very well, Hydra does have the ability to respawn any infantry unit which is appealing to me as a counter to alpha strikes. Enemy nuke a Hive Guard brood? Now they're back and set up in a most inconvenient location. Zoanthropes get fried? Not anymore. Venomthropes, Warriors, Raveners... Anything that can be built in blocks of 120-ish points and is prone to getting focus fired down is a potentially good target without breaking the points bank.

luke1705 wrote:
Or if you need to do it on turn 2 or 3 because thosw buggers got focused down early, go for it! What I really like about this ability is being able to outflank for free.

It also has some flexibility in your having complete control over what comes back, when it comes back, and where it comes back. The other Respawn abilities all have much heavier restrictions and limitations.

Niiai wrote:The strat works with pheromon trail right?

Yes it does.

**Odrankt**

Hey guys, just wondering is their a way to buff Genestealers to make them stronger like the Cult Genestealers e.g. unit of 20 Cult Genestealers can be buffed to S6 -1 D 1, -4 on 6+ to wound via Might from Beyond and Acolyte Iconward Relic and produce 100 attacks (5 per model) from being 10+ modles in unit and Might from Beyond.

I know Genestealers can be given toxic sacs to deal 1 extra dmg on a 6+ but can their Strength be buffed to 5 or 6? Or can to produce more then 80 attacks? Thanks for the help

**Masutaman**

Does the jord strategem that lets you put an infantry unit with raveners cost one cp per unit deployed, or 1 cp to deploy 1 or more units?

**Herodius**

Masutaman wrote:
Does the jord strategem that lets you put an infantry unit with raveners cost one cp per unit deployed, or 1 cp to deploy 1 or more units?

1 unit per command point

**Arson Fire**

Odrankt wrote:
Hey guys, just wondering is their a way to buff Genestealers to make them stronger like the Cult Genestealers e.g. unit of 20 Cult Genestealers can be buffed to S6 -1 D 1, -4 on 6+ to wound via Might from Beyond and Acolyte Iconward Relic and produce 100 attacks (5 per model) from being 10+ modles in unit and Might from Beyond.

I know Genestealers can be given toxic sacs to deal 1 extra dmg on a 6+ but can their Strength be buffed to 5 or 6? Or can to produce more then 80 attacks? Thanks for the help

Not really.
Most buffs you can give them are movement oriented. Or defensive. Not many offensive buffs, but they're usually killy enough on their own.

A broodlord buffs their hit rolls by 1.
You could use Gorgon to make them reroll wounds of 1.
There are also a couple of ways to make them reroll hits.

But nothing increases their strength. The only way to give them more attacks is to use the stratagem that lets them fight a second time at the end of the fight phase.

**Insectum7**

luke1705 wrote:
Scallywag wrote:

I really want to keep the 3 Hive Tyrants. They are one of the main reasons why I want to start Tyranids.

The Warriors will use the Single-minded Annihilation Stratagem. This gives them 27 additional Deathspitter shots, which is not bad at all.

Hive Guard is cool, but in my opinion they are not optimal/needed in a Behemoth list and I don't want to mix Hive Fleets.

Valid. IMO it's a little sub-optimal to have warriors shoot twice, but it is a lot of shots. I also think that Hive Guard are still good in Behemoth, but I do respect you not wanting to mix hive fleets.

And hey, keeping a unit because you think they're cool is always a good reason to field a unit. For what it's worth, a flyrant as you've loaded it out is definitely a good unit. They might not be the best possible use of 200ish points, but they're certainly far from awful.

Would definitely be interested in hearing more about how your warriors fare once you get them rocking. I have a feeling that they're under appreciated for what they bring to the table (myself included)

About the Warriors, I think they're awesome. But bear in mind my list is almost entirely Warriors.

Running Jorm, for 25 points you get 3 T4 3+save wounds, immune to morale, 3 S4 attacks and an Assault Heavy Bolter. Pure division from 2000 points gets you get 80 of them. Consider the basis of an army with 240 wounds, and 240 S5 ap -1 shots at 24". So working backwards from there to fill HQ slots (Primes for Warrior buff and Neurothropes for cheapish psykers) and thats where I'm at with my list.

I'm still noodling around with the exact list but I've done a couple games with massed Warriors now and it's been really effective so far. They're quite tough to begin with and having gobs of them has seen them outlast a lot of fire, and multiple Neurothropes have been able to Mortal Wound out the tougher stuff.

**Amishprn86**

I haven't played with warriors yet, but that sb.c i havent remodeled mine still from 5th ed.

I was going to play a large amount of them soon (i mean play them many times in many games).

From what i've seen/math i 100% sure i'm just going to do BS/DS's.

I do like HC and HVC a lot but i have 2 Harpies and HT's for that.

**pinecone77**

Insectum7 wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
Scallywag wrote:

I really want to keep the 3 Hive Tyrants. They are one of the main reasons why I want to start Tyranids.

The Warriors will use the Single-minded Annihilation Stratagem. This gives them 27 additional Deathspitter shots, which is not bad at all.

Hive Guard is cool, but in my opinion they are not optimal/needed in a Behemoth list and I don't want to mix Hive Fleets.

Valid. IMO it's a little sub-optimal to have warriors shoot twice, but it is a lot of shots. I also think that Hive Guard are still good in Behemoth, but I do respect you not wanting to mix hive fleets.

And hey, keeping a unit because you think they're cool is always a good reason to field a unit. For what it's worth, a flyrant as you've loaded it out is definitely a good unit. They might not be the best possible use of 200ish points, but they're certainly far from awful.

Would definitely be interested in hearing more about how your warriors fare once you get them rocking. I have a feeling that they're under appreciated for what they bring to the table (myself included)

About the Warriors, I think they're awesome. But bear in mind my list is almost entirely Warriors.

Running Jorm, for 25 points you get 3 T4 3+save wounds, immune to morale, 3 S4 attacks and an Assault Heavy Bolter. Pure division from 2000 points gets you get 80 of them. Consider the basis of an army with 240 wounds, and 240 S5 ap -1 shots at 24". So working backwards from there to fill HQ slots (Primes for Warrior buff and Neurothropes for cheapish psykers) and thats where I'm at with my list.

I'm still noodling around with the exact list but I've done a couple games with massed Warriors now and it's been really effective so far. They're quite tough to begin with and having gobs of them has seen them outlast a lot of fire, and multiple Neurothropes have been able to Mortal Wound out the tougher stuff.

Have you tried running Leviathan? A "all warriors" list could be seriously strong.

**Lance845**

Upping the armor save is more valuable than a 6+ fnp.

**Spoletta**

Lance845 wrote:
Upping the armor save is more valuable than a 6+ fnp.

Not always.

That bonus has a lot of limitations (melee, advance, charge, ignore cover etc...).
Even when you apply it, the 6++ is still better against damage 3 and d6 weapons. Probably d3 also, but i'm so tired that typing was already difficult, so that's a calculation i'll leave for tomorrow.

**Odrankt**

Hope Admin is okay with this.

So, I started dipping my toes into the Genestealers Cult quite recently so have obviously tooken an interest in the Tyranids as well. I have never played nids before and every time I go to make a list I am honestly over whelmed by the amount of units that are available per section (e.g. troops, Heavy Support etc). I was wondering if I suggested what I have available could you guys help me out with making an effective 500-1000pt list so I can learn it back to front and go on from there.

I currently have access to;
1 Tyranids Swarm Boxs,
2 Old Start Collecting box
2 sets of Space Hulk Genestealers and Broollords
Carnifex/Old One Eye,
15 Gargoylles and 20 Hormagaunts and 20 Termagants.

**Insectum7**

Spoletta wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
Upping the armor save is more valuable than a 6+ fnp.

Not always.

That bonus has a lot of limitations (melee, advance, charge, ignore cover etc...).
Even when you apply it, the 6++ is still better against damage 3 and d6 weapons. Probably d3 also, but i'm so tired that typing was already difficult, so that's a calculation i'll leave for tomorrow.

It's an interesting comparison, but I prefer Jorm for making me not even think about cover for my army, and ignoring cover for the enemy army (WL trait), plus the Jorm Stratagem is outrageously good imo, even if I don't have burrowers in my collection yet. I'll be using them soon enough and sprouting Warriors from the ground.

Also as a minor thing, but it requires no extra die roll.

**Spoletta**

It looks like one more of the dreaded "screens" is gone. Brimstones went the way of the conscripts.
At this point, what screens are left out there? Is it still correct for us to assume that the opponent will always have a screen?

Apart from infantry squads, which are not that good as screens, what is left?

Conscripts are still terrifying turn 1 screens, but guards no longer like to field those since by turn 2 they are running as fast as possible from the battlefield.

**Niiai**

Gaunts are a goof screen.

Other armirs have it also. It just needs to be cheap to deny aloha strike. Rhinoes also function simunarly.

**Dynas**

I think screens are still viable, just not as spammy. Guard can still put out a lot of bodies, granted its not 200, but even a 100 in a list is a lot.

**Xenomancers**

Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't played with warriors yet, but that sb.c i havent remodeled mine still from 5th ed.

I was going to play a large amount of them soon (i mean play them many times in many games).

From what i've seen/math i 100% sure i'm just going to do BS/DS's.

I do like HC and HVC a lot but i have 2 Harpies and HT's for that.

I've been using a squad of 9 with 3 VC and 6 DS and all have bone swords and adrenal glands out of a trygon - then I run a prime up to meet them. It's pretty amazing how much damage they put out when they shoot twice and pull off a charge.