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pinecone77 wrote:

Sneggy wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Yep I saw that one before the tourney, when they posted the lists for double check. It grabbed my attention. Jormangandr Gunfexen, with GSC Infantry! I'm glad it did well. If he went undefeated, how did he place?


Looks like he took 12th, and anouther Nid took 11th. Not to shabby!

I'd say, If you have the models, GSC infantry with a Jormagandr, or possably Kronos can do some work.

Roberts list was very interesting. Saw it play on a table nearby to me and he seemed to be having a good time with it.

I'm the Nid guy who came 11th (actually 8th now the scores have all been sorted.) and took top tyranids. It was a pretty decent result for the Nids, especially considering some horror show match ups.
Went into the event knowing the match up I really didn't want was a nurgle daemons horde. Hit it twice, both times in the kill points missions. I also drew Joshua Death (#1 ITC player currently) round one. Managed to scrabble my way to a win in that round as well (only player to take any pts off him at all. He went 20-0 in his other 4 rounds)

Congrats! I'm glad you'all had some good games, there seems to be a great deal of unhappiness about the way things were run.

Luck is a major part of this game, if you hit that hard counter, it can mess you up. If you have the time, I am sure I'd like to read a snop. of how your games went.

I posted before reading... Tah!

Thanks dude, synopsis above as you spotted. Yeh my match up luck was pretty horrendous. Still came out alright in the end. The game with Josh is one of the best I've ever got to play.

Dynas wrote:Nice writeup. Curious as to why you took Purestrain GS, over just regular GS. Did you find the GSC ambush tactic was worth the extra cost in points over regular Nid dex GS?

The purestrains are a beta strike. Considering the amount of gunlines and ambush armies I was expecting it was very useful to have a unit off the board nice and safe that offered a hell of a counter punch. If I hit a guard gunline or similar they are amazing for hostaging a guy and touching all the toys to stop them shooting as well. Both in the game against Joshs ambush Stygies and my round 4's death company and aggressor ambush they were super useful. I also got work out of them as the nurgle daemon hordes moved forward and left me space to pop up behind them and exert pressure on both sides with the two kinds of genestealers.

luke1705 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think it's good. I also think he's 33 points away from making Battalion so he should maybe (probably) look for a way to find that

I’m sure he would have if the tournament didn’t have a no duplicate detachment restriction

SHUPPET wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think it's good. I also think he's 33 points away from making Battalion so he should maybe (probably) look for a way to find that

I’m sure he would have if the tournament didn’t have a no duplicate detachment restriction

I'm probably missing something... but how is that stopping him?

You can't duplicate detachments and he already has the genestealer cult battalion. So he'd be playing double battalion which is illegal.

I completely missed that GSC was also a battalion, for some reason my mind duplicated the Patrol Detachment. Nevermind me

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think it's good. I also think he's 33 points away from making Battalion so he should maybe (probably) look for a way to find that

Yup. I think he should drop pure strain GS and pick up that ripper unit. Then take either reg genestealers. I think that would do it, your paying a premium on GSC purestrains for the ambush rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dynas wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think it's good. I also think he's 33 points away from making Battalion so he should maybe (probably) look for a way to find that

Yup. I think he should drop pure strain GS and pick up that ripper unit. Then take either reg genestealers. I think that would do it, your paying a premium on GSC purestrains for the ambush rule. But that being said, with how he is using them it might hurt his list. Who know, it seemed to work well.

Do Biovores outdamage Hive Guard vs.. Anything other than things out of range? Just wondering

Against something with a high invuln like Custodes or certain daemons they probably break even. And against something stacking -1/2 hit penalties it still drops its spore mine payload.

Right now I'm working on painting up more Genestealers and a Malanthrope for my evenutal 'stealer shock army. Between then and now, I'm going to be taking a break from the hordes and so I"m going to be playing my favorite model, the mighty Trygon. I hammered together a quick big monster list, and would like to share it with you all now.

Kraken Spearhead
Neurothrope
Trygon
Trygon
Trygon

Jormungandr Battalion
Tyrant, wings, MRC, devourers
Tyrant, wings, MRC, devourers
3x3 Rippers
Tyranofex, Acid Spray
Tyranofex, Acid Spray

Kronos Patrol
Tyrant, wings, Balethorn Cannon, Bonesword/Lash Whip (Warlord)
3x Rippers
6x Hive Guard, Impaler Cannon

The Kronos Hive Tyrant is because I want to try out the Balethorn Cannon, and have a model I really like with sword and cannon on it.

Some of the Hive Fleet choices seem kinda weird IMO.

You put two Winged HTs in Jormungandr, who'll never even benefit from the Adaptation since they fly, and who would much rather be Kraken instead. (Flyrant with Opportunistic Advance, Adrenalin Glands and casting Onslaught can move between 20"-30" in a single Turn, easily jumping over screens to get at vulnerable units, and can then fall back, shoot and charge again.)

The Neurothrope also seems it would work better in Jormungandr, maybe as the Warlord giving the T-Fexes Ignores Cover? Would also have the benefit of making an untargetable character your warlord.

I think the only real problem you'll run into is that you have no screen to protect your Hive Guard from deepstrikers, but because of the FAQ you should be pretty fine, at least T1.

So, I'd mainly just try to swap around the Neurothrope and Flyrants so that you can get at least on Tyrant into Kraken for Opportunistic Advance, two would be better.

Finally, are you sure you got the points right? You seem to be a good 100 points over 2000. Do you know that the FAQ upped the price of Flyrants?

babelfish wrote:

Kraken Spearhead
Neurothrope
Trygon
Trygon
Trygon

Jormungandr Battalion
Tyrant, wings, MRC, devourers
Tyrant, wings, MRC, devourers
3x3 Rippers
Tyranofex, Acid Spray
Tyranofex, Acid Spray

Kronos Patrol
Tyrant, wings, Balethorn Cannon, Bonesword/Lash Whip (Warlord)
3x Rippers
6x Hive Guard, Impaler Cannon

Are you planning on putting anything in the Trygons?

 geffthegoat wrote:
Some of the Hive Fleet choices seem kinda weird IMO.

You put two Winged HTs in Jormungandr, who'll never even benefit from the Adaptation since they fly, and who would much rather be Kraken instead. (Flyrant with Opportunistic Advance, Adrenalin Glands and casting Onslaught can move between 20"-30" in a single Turn, easily jumping over screens to get at vulnerable units, and can then fall back, shoot and charge again.)

The Neurothrope also seems it would work better in Jormungandr, maybe as the Warlord giving the T-Fexes Ignores Cover? Would also have the benefit of making an untargetable character your warlord.

I think the only real problem you'll run into is that you have no screen to protect your Hive Guard from deepstrikers, but because of the FAQ you should be pretty fine, at least T1.

So, I'd mainly just try to swap around the Neurothrope and Flyrants so that you can get at least on Tyrant into Kraken for Opportunistic Advance, two would be better.

Finally, are you sure you got the points right? You seem to be a good 100 points over 2000. Do you know that the FAQ upped the price of Flyrants?

Opportunistic advance does not work on flying models either, but fall back and charge is indeed nice.

Went up again Necrons for practice list for ITC.
My list is posted a few pages back.

He ran:

FW Lord
7x Tesla Immortals
C'tan Deceiver
3x Tesseract Vaults

I basically used all shooting to focus fire one TV and my melee to focus the another one. Ignore the 3rd. Managed to get turn 1 charge with hormies. Table deployment was Hammer and Anvil.

Score was 16-13 Victory, Recon and Titan Slayer won it for me. I managed to kill 2 vaults and his deceiver. We played through 3 turns and timed out. I had movement trays, but still found it took a while to roll all those dice.

Good to know I can survive that list. C'tan powers are nasty and Kronos doesn't do a damn thing against them which really sucked.

Hey, chaps, with the new codex actually looking pretty good I was wondering about dusting off my nids and giving them a go in the near future.

Here's the thing, I haven't played since 5th so I've got no clue whether I've even got the models for a viable army anymore.

This is what I've got:
- 1 Hive Tyrant (on foot)
- 1 Tyranid Prime
- 1 Broodlord
- 1 Zoanthrope/Neurothrope
- 1 Venomthrope
- 1 Hive Guard
- 2 Lictors
- 9 Warriors
- 18 Termagants
- 8 Hormagants (could probably proxy as Termagants or vice versa)
- 16 Genestealers (including 5 Necron-hybrid things that I could probably press into service )
- 2 Lictors
- 2 Carnifexes
(My group doesn't bother with WISIWIG, so wargear can be whatever.)

We usually play at 1500pts. Do I have enough to make a halfway-decent list at that size? If so, any recommendations on what to use?

I feel like Genestealers are a little too strong. Everytime I try to play around with a melee list I always just end up on "why aren't I just putting these points into Genestealers"

 SHUPPET wrote:
I feel like Genestealers are a little too strong. Everytime I try to play around with a melee list I always just end up on "why aren't I just putting these points into Genestealers"

Yes they are the best melee we have.

No they are not too good the rest of our melee stuff needs a slight buff.

For example ether Homigaunts need ether to go to 4 ppm or they need a touch more survivability (I'd give them a 5+ armor save) for the extra point and both upgrades need to be 1 ppm.

Timeshadow wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I feel like Genestealers are a little too strong. Everytime I try to play around with a melee list I always just end up on "why aren't I just putting these points into Genestealers"

Yes they are the best melee we have.

No they are not too good the rest of our melee stuff needs a slight buff.

For example ether Homigaunts need ether to go to 4 ppm or they need a touch more survivability (I'd give them a 5+ armor save) for the extra point and both upgrades need to be 1 ppm.

Extended Carapace Hormies? might work.

I just charge turn 1 and use swarmy move twice or Kraken opportunisit advance. Pile in and conslidate into the guns lines.

Spoletta wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Surprised no one’s talking about the “Poverty Tyranids” list that went undefeated at London-


The cheap Neophyte squads threw me for a loop. I’ve been finding out that Venom cannons are fun myself.

An high placing list featuring no flyrants and a single walkrant...I thought this day would never come

pretty odd to go for the acid maw on a HVC fex. Enhanced senses are better on that fex. I usually run 2 dakka fex with acid maw though. You want your HVC hitting - it is very important.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since the nerf to FHT I have moved to playing Nidzilla and apart from having a lot of fun - It been doing really well for me.

Typically I am shoving haruspex into opponents with swarmlord turn 1. Something most people will not realize until it's too late is this puppy blows up like a boss. auto 3 mortals to everything in range when you roll a 6 to explode (yeah you are going to want to reroll this every time). He will pay for himself on an explosion usually and he can also do some serious damage before that if you get lucky (why this thing hits on 4's...I have no freaking clue) Anyways - T8 is marginally helpful for this guy.

I've also been running Toxicrines (which are surprisingly awesome for me) I ran 3 last game. Same as Haruspex it's a great mortal wound generator. Except he excels in CC where the haruspex is kind of middling but has higher damage potential. He also shoots pretty well. He loses a wound and goes to t7 but is much cheaper too. Personally I think the Toxicrine is the best CC unit in the game for it's cost certainly in the nid codex anyways.

How to beat Ynnari/Alaitoc ITC format.

Basically he screens with the Rangers. Then turtles with the Reapers and casters and uses Intercept vs any deepstrikers. The Shining Speers zip into back line and grab objectives or table quarters.

Looking at beating a list similar to this using all the current FAQ and beta rules in an ITC format. Things to watch out for, plans for, what units to priortize, what would be best against it, worst against it. Things like that. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

 Dynas wrote:
How to beat Ynnari/Alaitoc ITC format.

Basically he screens with the Rangers. Then turtles with the Reapers and casters and uses Intercept vs any deepstrikers. The Shining Speers zip into back line and grab objectives or table quarters.

Looking at beating a list similar to this using all the current FAQ and beta rules in an ITC format. Things to watch out for, plans for, what units to priortize, what would be best against it, worst against it. Things like that. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

Spoiler:

Alaitoc Batt
Farseet, Guide, Fortune
Spirit Seer (conceal)
5x Rangers
5x Rangers
5x Rangers

Alaitoc Batt
SpiritSeer (enhance)
SpiritSeer (empower)
SpiritSEer (Protect)
5x Rangers
5x Rangers
5x Rangers
Wave Serpent-3x Shurken Cannons, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones
9x Sweeping Hawks-Hawks Talon

Ynnari Batt
Yvraine Warlord (tenatiouso Survior), Ancestors Grace, Word of the pheonix
Eldrad (doom, will of asurman, exectioner)
Warlorck (ulthwe), Quicken
17x Guardians (ulthwe), Shurken Cannon
5x Warriors
5x Warrios
9x Shining Spears (siam Hann) Star Lance
10x Dark Reapers (alaitoc)-tempest Launcher

100 geensteelers is a good place to start to beat that list.

Timeshadow wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I feel like Genestealers are a little too strong. Everytime I try to play around with a melee list I always just end up on "why aren't I just putting these points into Genestealers"

Yes they are the best melee we have.

No they are not too good the rest of our melee stuff needs a slight buff.

For example ether Homigaunts need ether to go to 4 ppm or they need a touch more survivability (I'd give them a 5+ armor save) for the extra point and both upgrades need to be 1 ppm.

I don't understand why GW kept all our infantry costs the same...I mean all codices had their infantry lowered by at least 1 point whilst we were stuck with 5TH unacceptable infantry pricing. Hormagaunts are NOWHERE worth 5 ppm (whilst GSC Hybrids are definitely worth their cost even now from an Index perspective) and things like Gargoyle are glorified Termagants with +50% point increase for Fly, +6" and an useless rule that do not last even a turn in CQC)

I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have the entire dex buffed to match the level of one unit. There is some important changes I'd like to see, but I'm return for that I don't think it's unfair if GW tones down Stealers, they are sitting at a value the rest of our dex struggles to match atm.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have the entire dex buffed to match the level of one unit. There is some important changes I'd like to see, but I'm return for that I don't think it's unfair if GW tones down Stealers, they are sitting at a value the rest of our dex struggles to match atm.

Nerfing Stealer would be the epithome of design INCOMPETENCE. You ain't touching what's fine since they drop like butterflies when you look at them and they haven't been winning anything so far

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have the entire dex buffed to match the level of one unit. There is some important changes I'd like to see, but I'm return for that I don't think it's unfair if GW tones down Stealers, they are sitting at a value the rest of our dex struggles to match atm.

Nerfing Stealer would be the epithome of design INCOMPETENCE. You ain't touching what's fine since they drop like butterflies when you look at them and they haven't been winning anything so far

That's a bit of an overstatement mate, sounds a bit like bias towards your own army. Ideally Genestealers will be toned down to the level of every other CC unit in the dex. Anything significantly below that line can get tuned up, but I don't think there is all that much which is actually that bad - Stealers presence just makes a whole bunch of units redundant. There's zero chance GW is going to buff the entirety of the dex to the level of Stealers, and honestly nor should they. If your argument against that, is the broken dexes out there in wild, they what you should be asking for is their offending units to be toned down, it's far more realistic and a much better way of approaching balance than "my army isn't the most op there is so screw internal balance until it is".

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have the entire dex buffed to match the level of one unit. There is some important changes I'd like to see, but I'm return for that I don't think it's unfair if GW tones down Stealers, they are sitting at a value the rest of our dex struggles to match atm.

Nerfing Stealer would be the epithome of design INCOMPETENCE. You ain't touching what's fine since they drop like butterflies when you look at them and they haven't been winning anything so far

That's a bit of an overstatement mate, sounds a bit like bias towards your own army. Ideally Genestealers will be toned down to the level of every other CC unit in the dex. Anything significantly below that line can get tuned up, but I don't think there is all that much unplayable - Stealers presence just makes a whole bunch of units redundant. There's zero chance GW is going to buff the entirety of the dex to the level of Stealers, and honestly nor should they. If your argument against that, is the broken dexes out there in wild, they what you should be asking for is their offending units to be toned down, it's far more realistic and a much better way of approaching balance than "my army isn't the most op there is so screw internal balance until it is".

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

 vipoid wrote:
Hey, chaps, with the new codex actually looking pretty good I was wondering about dusting off my nids and giving them a go in the near future.

Here's the thing, I haven't played since 5th so I've got no clue whether I've even got the models for a viable army anymore.

This is what I've got:
- 1 Hive Tyrant (on foot)
- 1 Tyranid Prime
- 1 Broodlord
- 1 Zoanthrope/Neurothrope
- 1 Venomthrope
- 1 Hive Guard
- 2 Lictors
- 9 Warriors
- 18 Termagants
- 8 Hormagants (could probably proxy as Termagants or vice versa)
- 16 Genestealers (including 5 Necron-hybrid things that I could probably press into service )
- 2 Lictors
- 2 Carnifexes
(My group doesn't bother with WISIWIG, so wargear can be whatever.)

We usually play at 1500pts. Do I have enough to make a halfway-decent list at that size? If so, any recommendations on what to use?

Unfortunately for Zoans, Hive Guard, and Venomthropes their minimum unit size is 3 now. I’d go with your Carnifexes, Tyrant, Broodlord, and Genestealers for sure. Warriors can be fun with Boneswords, Deathspitters, and Venom Cannons in my experience. The Prime nearby can help land those hits, but he’s a bit pricey for what he brings to a list.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Genestealers invalidate other CQC options because they are BAD (few of them in terms of pure effectiveness, most due to their pricing). Nerfing Genestealers instead of proper buffing such units would make the Tyranid codex completely inept at Melee combat

Can I ask what you guys think about the nid artefacts? Any standouts ones?

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Genestealers invalidate other CQC options because they are BAD (few of them in terms of pure effectiveness, most due to their pricing). Nerfing Genestealers instead of proper buffing such units would make the Tyranid codex completely inept at Melee combat

They really aren't, most are in a pretty good spot, just a pointless inclusion in a dex that has a unit as strong as Stealers. Lot of Doom & Gloom from you, I think you are downplaying more than a little, but let's agree to disagree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Can I ask what you guys think about the nid artefacts? Any standouts ones?

They are kinda just there and not very interesting at all.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Can I ask what you guys think about the nid artefacts? Any standouts ones?

Chameleonic Mutation is fantastic. Ymgarl Factor on a Broodlord or choppy HQ can be fun, especially in smaller point games. They’re all usually upgrades to a weapon if you already have it, aside from the Miasma Cannon which is more of a Sidegrade.

I put chameleonic mutation on Tyrants and run them next to venom/malanthropes for something that never dies. The miasma cannon is nice to get around your degrading profile. The old one eye Talons in combination with the right trait are excellent for one-shotting nearly anything.

Is a Tyrannofex with acid spray in the drop pod dream of mine gone with the beta rules? I have been play testing this and it's remarkably effective. T8, weapon beasts,2d6 strength user ap-1, plus stinger slavo, with drop pod deathspitters is a huge pain in the ass. Both would soke up so much firepower while my cc elements move into place. Can't see this working a turn later. Thoughts?