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Hellfire Plasma Cannonade - how many of those can I get into 2k pts?

Voss wrote:

 frightnight wrote:
Heh, nice to see they're just reissuing the old Sammael landspeeder as a Primaris model. I have one unassembled, now I just have to decide if I want to continue with it for Sam or go with the update.

Not Primaris. Just normal marine lieutenants, since 8th brought those back. (I don't remember if they were an anything but the old Rogue Trader list)

Potayto, potahto. (though I am old enough to have modeled some LTs with their rank markings on their forearms back in the day)

Looking at the Index, since Sableclaw can be targeted as if it wasn't a character, I'll probably update it. Though if they're putting the base model out again, they might have the kit come with options to model Sammael, and update Sable in the Codex since it'll be a current model... Guess I'll still have to wait.

I'm guessing with it being an LT and not Sammy, it may be under 10 wounds which will make it hidden. Not sure though. I already modeled mine up tonight from my spare RW sprue. I knew there was a reason I didn't paint my last Landspeeder

 bullyboy wrote:
I'm guessing with it being an LT and not Sammy, it may be under 10 wounds which will make it hidden. Not sure though. I already modeled mine up tonight from my spare RW sprue. I knew there was a reason I didn't paint my last Landspeeder

Hidden Landspeeder with twin assault cannon granting ignore cover buff aura and allowing units to reroll ones to wound!

 Vector Strike wrote:
I hope DWK can take the new termie armors. 6" DWk could be useful

That would depend on them releasing new kit for DWK in tartaros or cataphractii armour. Not going to happen all that likely though...

tneva82 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
I hope DWK can take the new termie armors. 6" DWk could be useful

That would depend on them releasing new kit for DWK in tartaros or cataphractii armour. Not going to happen all that likely though...

They specifically mention in the Article that they get Tartaros and Cataphractii Armor. They also specifically call that out for the Blood Angels, who dont have a special kit for them.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
I hope DWK can take the new termie armors. 6" DWk could be useful

That would depend on them releasing new kit for DWK in tartaros or cataphractii armour. Not going to happen all that likely though...

They specifically mention in the Article that they get Tartaros and Cataphractii Armor. They also specifically call that out for the Blood Angels, who dont have a special kit for them.

Speaking of the Deathwing, there’s plenty in the new codex for fans of the 1st Company of the Unforgiven. Most excitingly, you can now clad your Deathwing in Cataphractii and Tartaros armour – the former providing nigh-unparalleled durability for your units, and the latter allowing for greater mobility.

This refers just deathwing which includes yes knights but also bog standard terminators. It does not specifically refer that deathwing knights get the armour.

GW has strict no models, no rules policy. They are removing easily convertable options without models. Now you think they would create completely new unit without kit for DA? Nope. Ain't happening.

What this means is simply you get to field tartaros&cataphractii terminator units in DA army that have the deathwing keyword. Nothing more. No tartaros deathwing knights unless GW releases new kit for that.

In the sense of rules, yeah. But if you want to do arm/weapon swaps or conversions and have DW Knights in the old styles of armor, nothing stops you.

I agree that the Character keyword will make or break the Ravenwing Lieutenant.

Voss wrote:
In the sense of rules, yeah. But if you want to do arm/weapon swaps or conversions and have DW Knights in the old styles of armor, nothing stops you.

Well if you want to go that way(might not be that easy to transfer weapons to old style arms) then nothing stopped you from doing that before either...

Obviously the article is talking rules wise. Converting wise nothing has stopped before from either. Nothing stops you from converting them wield tau suits for that matter

But hey, is there any news about thunder fire cannons in the codex? Apparently blood angels didnt have them..

I'm very hopeful that we see something interesting with the Deathwing. If its just fearless thats a pretty big fail when you consider the protection they are already going to get from Grim Resolve.

tneva82 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
I hope DWK can take the new termie armors. 6" DWk could be useful

That would depend on them releasing new kit for DWK in tartaros or cataphractii armour. Not going to happen all that likely though...

They specifically mention in the Article that they get Tartaros and Cataphractii Armor. They also specifically call that out for the Blood Angels, who dont have a special kit for them.

Speaking of the Deathwing, there’s plenty in the new codex for fans of the 1st Company of the Unforgiven. Most excitingly, you can now clad your Deathwing in Cataphractii and Tartaros armour – the former providing nigh-unparalleled durability for your units, and the latter allowing for greater mobility.

This refers just deathwing which includes yes knights but also bog standard terminators. It does not specifically refer that deathwing knights get the armour.

GW has strict no models, no rules policy. They are removing easily convertable options without models. Now you think they would create completely new unit without kit for DA? Nope. Ain't happening.

What this means is simply you get to field tartaros&cataphractii terminator units in DA army that have the deathwing keyword. Nothing more. No tartaros deathwing knights unless GW releases new kit for that.

Well, having them specifically as DWK would probably get rediculous, as you'd have Tartaros Terminators with Storm Shields moving up the field with their enhance mobility, and DWK Cataphractiis would just be slower than the other two with no benefit, so...

Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

So the online retailers I have seen, have 15% off. Is there a retailer that does a better percent off at the pre order phase? I remember one or 2 doing a 20% off at pre order but I didnt know if they still did that. I'm working some overtime so I'm pretty sure in can go ham on the new DA release and the wife wont care too much but I was going to go for the best deal. Sorry if this is the absolute wrong spot to post this.

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

Plasma Cannons on Terminators?

Because remember that the Deathwing Terminator kit has a Plasma Cannon.

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

The normal Deathwing terminators have a much bigger array of weapon options. They are hurt by being the jack of all trades. But they can still have their place, at the end of the day they can mix whatever they want, Tartaros and Cathapractii have much less options, and can't mix weapons that much. And they have different point prices so...

Not that anyone's taking them anymore anyway, but it just dawned on me how damaging mind war would be to commissars.

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

Yes as far as these 2 types go they are very close but i think the weapon options of the standard Deathwing terms are a lot better. . It would be cool if the regular DW Sgt was able to get a combi-weapon but the real advantage with the regular terms is that you can take a storm shield or 2 in the squad to soak the high AP shots.

 PhillyT wrote:
I'm very hopeful that we see something interesting with the Deathwing. If its just fearless thats a pretty big fail when you consider the protection they are already going to get from Grim Resolve.

I certainly hope so because Grim resolve is basically worthless to DW. Need a little help in the special ability department to make DW a bit more attractive.

No update today? I see DA vs Tau is scheduled for Friday.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
No update today? I see DA vs Tau is scheduled for Friday.

Last week the Blood Angels got their chapter focus like the Dark Angels on Monday. Then they got nothing until article on new units on Friday and the rather useless twitch stream discussion on Friday. I suspect it will be rather similar for Dark Angels.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

Plasma Cannons on Terminators?

Because remember that the Deathwing Terminator kit has a Plasma Cannon.

Plasma cannon arguably suffers the most through competition with Tartaros and plasma blaster.

Heavy D3 vs. Assault 2 and the same damage profile. Average no. shots is the same, though Assault 2 means no -1 for shooting after moving (or deepstriking), not to mention the -1 effect on killing yourself, should you opt to overcharge.

Plasma cannon's got more range .. but whatever. You're getting close and personal with those, no?

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

Standard termies should be tad more mobile than cataphractii and if nothing else price. Of course GW being GW they can have screwed up balance there.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Hmmm this does make standard deathwing terminators kind of meh, if I want storm Bolters backed with power fists I would just take cataphractii, if I want some extra weapons like the auto cannon or plasma blaster then Tartarus with extra mobility, the only benefit I can see is assault cannons or cyclones for standard termies, anyone else thinking he same?

Plasma Cannons on Terminators?

Because remember that the Deathwing Terminator kit has a Plasma Cannon.

Plasma cannon arguably suffers the most through competition with Tartaros and plasma blaster.

Heavy D3 vs. Assault 2 and the same damage profile. Average no. shots is the same, though Assault 2 means no -1 for shooting after moving (or deepstriking), not to mention the -1 effect on killing yourself, should you opt to overcharge.

Plasma cannon's got more range .. but whatever. You're getting close and personal with those, no?

The issue here is that while Plasma Cannon suffers "competition" with Tartaros and the Plasma Blaster...that's ignoring that a squad of Deathwing Terminators can take more Plasma Cannons than a squad of Tartaros can Plasma Blasters.

Plasma Blasters/Volkite Chargers are only on the Sergeant.
Plasma Cannons should be two models in the squad or potentially the whole of a Deathwing Command Squad.

A Deathwing Plasma Cannon equipped squad is going to be slinging out more shots with their Plasma Cannons than a Tartaros is with its sole Plasma Blaster.

I do feel it worth mentioning though that a Deathwing Terminator Squad is a bit more flexible in scope than a standard Terminator Squad.
Have some melee Terminators coupled with Plasma Cannon Terminators; Combat Squad that stuff out and have some fun with it.

Huh?

How many?

He's saying buy a ten-man squad to get 2 cannons, then combat squad as you see fit. Pretty smort. Noice.

Are we sure Tartaros and Cataphractii get DW rules? DG Chaos Lords didn't get any DG-specific rules...

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Are we sure Tartaros and Cataphractii get DW rules? DG Chaos Lords didn't get any DG-specific rules...

They said you can add them to your DW, but no i suppose they didnt specifically say they got the DW rule, did anyone else notice if they did?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Are we sure Tartaros and Cataphractii get DW rules? DG Chaos Lords didn't get any DG-specific rules...

Which Chaos Lord?

Cataphractii statline, for Loyalists, is:
M4" other stats the same beyond a 3+ Invulnerable Save(Iron Halo and the Cataphractii Armor) and halving the result of the dice rolled for Advances.

"Standard" Terminator armor, for Loyalists, is M5" with a 4+ Invulnerable Save from his Iron Halo.

Lord of Contagion for Death Guard is the Cataphractii equipped one:
M4"...and a special rule called "Cataphractii Armor" that gives him a 4+ Invulnerable Save and halves the dice roll for Advancing. Typhus has the same thing.

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor has the M5" with 4+ Invulnerable Save(Sigil of Corruption instead of Iron Halo that the Loyalist has).

Loyalists didn't get Tartaros character rules though, just a unit. Fully expecting the same setup for Dark Angels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Are we sure Tartaros and Cataphractii get DW rules? DG Chaos Lords didn't get any DG-specific rules...

They said you can add them to your DW, but no i suppose they didnt specifically say they got the DW rule, did anyone else notice if they did?

Warhammer Community wrote:Speaking of the Deathwing, there’s plenty in the new codex for fans of the 1st Company of the Unforgiven. Most excitingly, you can now clad your Deathwing in Cataphractii and Tartaros armour – the former providing nigh-unparalleled durability for your units, and the latter allowing for greater mobility.

Unless they don't understand the idea of what "clad" means...yeah, your Tartaros or Cataphractii will have the ability to be Deathwing.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
He's saying buy a ten-man squad to get 2 cannons, then combat squad as you see fit. Pretty smort. Noice.

What benefit it has over 2 squads of 5? At least tacticals etc it's better to have more for easier command points and sergeant gear. Termies have reason to take big squad?