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Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

They said 2017 would be a heavy focus on IoM and chaos. Next year a bigger focus on xenos. Shock and awe, the bulk of xenos come out next year and we end this one with more IoM. Who would have thought they would do what they said.

 Lance845 wrote:

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

They said 2017 would be a heavy focus on IoM and chaos. Next year a bigger focus on xenos. Shock and awe, the bulk of xenos come out next year and we end this one with more IoM. Who would have thought they would do what they said.

Lets see what happens...........

 Formosa wrote:

 Nogil wrote:
This was posted on /tg/

Spoiler:

Looks a bit shade - like the text etc, idk.

Wow, not even worth 2 cp, unless it's hellblasters or something... maybe black knights?

Pretty tasty on a tank. Doesn't limit what your using it on.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Nogil wrote:
This was posted on /tg/

Spoiler:

Looks a bit shade - like the text etc, idk.

Wow, not even worth 2 cp, unless it's hellblasters or something... maybe black knights?

Pretty tasty on a tank. Doesn't limit what your using it on.

Exactly. And to anyone that is saying Ultramarines can do it for free, they can't do it on a tank.

bobafett012 wrote:
Another over priced strategem. 2 CPs for a single unit that ultrmarines can do for free.

At this point your reminding me of a kid I new growing up in the 90's who used to brag about beating video games on his game genie, I mean do you really need your army to play itself in order to win or even have enjoyment? Nothing released is bad, most of it is incredibly strong.

Agreed. Pretty sure my Land Raider Crusaders can make good use of those 2 CP.

 Red Corsair wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
Another over priced strategem. 2 CPs for a single unit that ultrmarines can do for free.

At this point your reminding me of a kid I new growing up in the 90's who used to brag about beating video games on his game genie, I mean do you really need your army to play itself in order to win or even have enjoyment? Nothing released is bad, most of it is incredibly strong.

I've entertained the fact that some of this stuff will be good for certain portions of the army or certain units, but to sit here and say most of this is "incredibly strong" is so asinine, I can't even believe we play the same army. Situational, is not strong imo.

Getting that out of the way, I play DW, and us DW players certainly aren't winning tons of games. I just wanted so shinies for my army, so please point me in the direction of the "incredibly strong" stuff for MY DA army please because I've yet to see anything other than 1 strategem that helps knights be slightly tougher than they are now.

Maybe they've not even shown the DW stuff yet but I doubt it, I've seen how GW does the DA since 2nd edition, only about 1 edition i can think of, have they been a strong army.

By the way, thanks for being a complete donkey-cave, simply because you don't like my opinion. Who's the child....

DW redemptor dread falling back from combat and unleashing fire with no modifier....sounds good to me.
And you know there will be a Strategem that links DW deep strike with RW.

DW are not an army, just like RW aren't. If you chose to limit yourself to a small subportion of an army, its just on you. It will always be at a disadvantage than playing with the full Dark Angel rosters of tactical options.

EDIT: I realize this sounds a little rude, but it is what it is. I know that DW and RW, are not like other Space Marine chapters first and second companys. They have their own solid theme, their own "chapter master", their own variety, etc... but they are still a small portion of a whole Space Marine Chapter. They shouldn't work unsupported, at least not at the level of a whole dark angels army.

Not seen confirmation yet.

Speed of the Raven should make RW happy. Forgive me, I'm not doing a screen capture, but 1 CP and you can advance, shoot, and charge in the same turn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
DW are not an army, just like RW aren't. If you chose to limit yourself to a small subportion of an army, its just on you. It will always be at a disadvantage than playing with the full Dark Angel rosters of tactical options.

EDIT: I realize this sounds a little rude, but it is what it is. I know that DW and RW, are not like other Space Marine chapters first and second companys. They have their own solid theme, their own "chapter master", their own variety, etc... but they are still a small portion of a whole Space Marine Chapter. They shouldn't work unsupported, at least not at the level of a whole dark angels army.

The thing is, of course, that this kind of army was very much encouraged and many people still own full DW or RW armies from when it was. Now the shift has changed to more inclusive lists despite the fluffy nature of the pure DW/RW lists (Most novels include all 1st or all 2nd company elements for example) and those players effectively have their armies squatted.

It was the Facebook video for today.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was the Facebook video for today.

What he said.

 Galas wrote:
DW are not an army, just like RW aren't. If you chose to limit yourself to a small subportion of an army, its just on you. It will always be at a disadvantage than playing with the full Dark Angel rosters of tactical options.

EDIT: I realize this sounds a little rude, but it is what it is. I know that DW and RW, are not like other Space Marine chapters first and second companys. They have their own solid theme, their own "chapter master", their own variety, etc... but they are still a small portion of a whole Space Marine Chapter. They shouldn't work unsupported, at least not at the level of a whole dark angels army.

I used to be a pure DW player but I have evolved. I run RW in my DW army now. I just haven't seen anything that benefits DW yet other than 1 strategem which is decent but i'd like to see more from what is essentially 1/3rd of the army. I am sure there is more, and we just haven't seen it yet, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't feel much of what has been spoiled is, say, on the same level as the BA stuff, my other army. The rules BA got I think are crazy good, but that's neither here nor there.

Oh! Confirmation:

https://imgur.com/D0ICYm6

Absolutely gonna expand my Ravenwing now.

From Phill Khelly in WarhammerTV:

The Primaris of the Dark Angels do not yet know anything about the Fallen. In fact, for the elite Veteran's point of view of the Dark Angels, the Primaris are cannon fodder, human shields and little else.

This makes me so happy.

A little explanation for why Primaris can't use old vehicles (We all know is a pure marketing move but whatever):

The Primaris do not use Land Raiders because on the one hand, they have not been trained to use technologies from the old Marines (just as the old Marines are not trained to use Repulsors), and on the other hand, the Chapter veterans do not want to leave their venerable technology in the hands of novices.

Sammael's Corvex jet bike is not the last of its kind in the Imperium.

Sammael in Saberclaw no longer has the rule that made it possible to target shooting despite being a character of less than 10 Wounds.

And those Talonmaster rules are great. 18 shoots at -1AP (At a 4+ if it moves, ok) are great. Know we only need to know the price.

Well, that answers my question about whether to go Sam on Sable or do a LT now that Sable can be screened...


Now to consult my index for the points on my old Chaplain and Techmarine on bikes.

I kind of agree. 3 x 18 shot speeders that are targeted as characters seems good.

Looking at the power level, the points of Talonmasters seems high but... I'll try them anyway.

From WarhammerTV and https://www.lavozdehorus.com/hojas-datos-estratagemas-desveladas-hoy-warhammertv-los-angeles-oscuros/

LEJ wrote:
I kind of agree. 3 x 18 shot speeders that are targeted as characters seems good.

Looking at the power level, the points of Talonmasters seems high but... I'll try them anyway.

Is it? Presumably similar to a Stormtalon Gunship, which has basically the same weapons and PL.

If so, you could squeeze in 9 Talonmasters + Sammael on Sableclaw and have enough left for 2 or 3 Culexus to hide out of LoS in 2000 points.

Would be pretty annoying

Just watched the warhammer TV about the DA book.


the only psychic power we hven't seen was spoiled. Righteous repugnance, WC7, a friendly DA unit within 12" of psyker can re-roll all failed hits and wound rolls from melee weapons until start of next psychic phase. the last 3 are the same as index.

Storm raven is in the book, along with contemptor. Sammael can be on jetbike or land speeder and land speeder is character with like 7 wounds and is untargetable now.

No deathwing or ravenwing as troops

no masters of the DW or RW

terms in cataphracti or tartaros are DW

Jink is the same as index

Inner circle is auto pass morale, and re-roll hits against fallen

LS strom and scout bikers not RW

talked about some strategems.

RW strat called stasis shells for 1cp. Replaces regular attack and does D3 mortal wounds if hits.

DW strat called Deathwing Assault for, i thought he said 2 or 3 CP, but i don't know exactly what it does. He said DW terms get to fire after DS. they already can do that, so maybe just a free round of shooting? I don't know how many units it affects, hopefully if it costs 3, all of them that DS....

He said DW do have some abilities after they DS but didn't go into any details.

he went over 2 relics. The Eye of the Unseen, enemy units within 3" of bearer has -1 leader ship and fights last in fight phase. Mace of redemption, power maul, +3 str, -3 AP and i didn't catch the damage, and you get re-rolls vs something, fallen maybe?

went over 2 warlord traits, huntsman being one, the other Master of Maneuver. It allows all DA units within 6" to re-roll charge distances.

He said RW got a lot of point reductions

Azreal Helm got nerfed, only shields infantry and bikers, he gained and extra CP, so 2 now, and gets a re-roll, once per game.

No more LC's or TH/SS on Belial.

Sammael on Sableclaw can't be targeted anymore

Sacred standards are not back.

that's what I got.

Jinx is NOT the old one. It's 4++ and works in melee.

bobafett012 wrote:
DW strat called Deathwing Assault for, i thought he said 2 or 3 CP, but i don't know exactly what it does. He said DW terms get to fire after DS. they already can do that, so maybe just a free round of shooting? I don't know how many units it affects, hopefully if it costs 3, all of them that DS....

I'm under the impression that they get to shoot when they Deep Strike and then shoot normally.

All good stuff, really. The 4++ for Jinx in meele too helps for the fact that Grim Resolve doesn't give them anything.

Inner Circle is a little underwhelming, but whatever.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Mental Surge wrote:
so green space marines get a codex before Necrons, Tau, Okrs and Dark Eldar after regular space marines already got one? And this is why 40k sucks.

They said 2017 would be a heavy focus on IoM and chaos. Next year a bigger focus on xenos. Shock and awe, the bulk of xenos come out next year and we end this one with more IoM. Who would have thought they would do what they said.

Lets see what happens...........

Pretty sure the codex releases will continue.

I'm unclear what you think the alternative might be.

Spoletta wrote:
Jinx is NOT the old one. It's 4++ and works in melee.

True, i was just writing down what he said. He said it was the same as index but he said it was 4++ and worked in CC with that strategem for RW.

 Kanluwen wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
DW strat called Deathwing Assault for, i thought he said 2 or 3 CP, but i don't know exactly what it does. He said DW terms get to fire after DS. they already can do that, so maybe just a free round of shooting? I don't know how many units it affects, hopefully if it costs 3, all of them that DS....

I'm under the impression that they get to shoot when they Deep Strike and then shoot normally.

That's what I assumed but does it work for ALL DS DW units, just 1, why the 2 or 3 CPs, or did he just not know.

I do think it's funny that they write an article touting large DW squads because of the Grim Resolve CT, and yet, all the DW have inner circle, and there for are immune to morale, just as they were in the codex.....

He also said what sounded like DW had some special abilities after they DS. I wish he'd have went into details. Hopefully something other than a re-roll to hit, we got enough of those from everywhere else. +1 AP or re-roll wounds of 1, or something like that would be cool.

bobafett012 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Jinx is NOT the old one. It's 4++ and works in melee.

True, i was just writing down what he said. He said it was the same as index but he said it was 4++ and worked in CC with that strategem for RW.

So Jink is 5++ vs shooting if advance, but with a stratagem it becomes 4++ and works in meele too? Hmmm. If that stratagem is 1CP isn't bad.

 Galas wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Jinx is NOT the old one. It's 4++ and works in melee.

True, i was just writing down what he said. He said it was the same as index but he said it was 4++ and worked in CC with that strategem for RW.

So Jink is 5++ vs shooting if advance, but with a stratagem it becomes 4++ and works in meele too? Hmmm. If that stratagem is 1CP isn't bad.

no, i think the guy didn't really know what the index version was, he said a couple times he wasn't sure of some of the changes between the index and codex. I'm pretty sure it's a 4++, works in melee also as he specifically said, if you use that RW strat, advance and charge, they would have a 4++ in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some of the characters came down in points too.

Asmodai down to 130, Ezekiel down to 135, and I believe both Sammaels are down. If i heardhim right, Sammael on corvus is like 160 something, and Sammael in Sableclaw is 183.

bobafett012 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
DW strat called Deathwing Assault for, i thought he said 2 or 3 CP, but i don't know exactly what it does. He said DW terms get to fire after DS. they already can do that, so maybe just a free round of shooting? I don't know how many units it affects, hopefully if it costs 3, all of them that DS....

I'm under the impression that they get to shoot when they Deep Strike and then shoot normally.

That's what I assumed but does it work for ALL DS DW units, just 1, why the 2 or 3 CPs, or did he just not know.

Pure speculation on my part, but it might be that it allows for you to DS a Deathwing unit out of sequence.

I do think it's funny that they write an article touting large DW squads because of the Grim Resolve CT, and yet, all the DW have inner circle, and there for are immune to morale, just as they were in the codex.....

Quite likely it's future-proofing in case, say, they add a Psychic Power that allows for stripping away the "Autopass" part of that...it's also possible that Inner Circle auto-pass when fighting Chaos or something of that nature.

He also said what sounded like DW had some special abilities after they DS. I wish he'd have went into details. Hopefully something other than a re-roll to hit, we got enough of those from everywhere else. +1 AP or re-roll wounds of 1, or something like that would be cool.

Most likely it's the ability to shoot twice or not have -1 to Hit for Heavy weapons or whatnot.