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 Galas wrote:


They aren't trying to sell you anything. They are just giving again funny rules to make your own custom Land Raiders and probably other vehicles in the future to use in narrative and open games. I know for many people only "Matched Play" exist, but this is exactly the kind of things they need to do to expand Narrative (And Open) in their own thing, instead of "Matched but with Powerlevels"

Point being releasing this limited system in open is pretty pointless as open already has even more varied system. Custom land raider? Pff. What about custom ork boy? Custom fire warrior? Custom aspect warrior?

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:


They aren't trying to sell you anything. They are just giving again funny rules to make your own custom Land Raiders and probably other vehicles in the future to use in narrative and open games. I know for many people only "Matched Play" exist, but this is exactly the kind of things they need to do to expand Narrative (And Open) in their own thing, instead of "Matched but with Powerlevels"

Point being releasing this limited system in open is pretty pointless as open already has even more varied system. Custom land raider? Pff. What about custom ork boy? Custom fire warrior? Custom aspect warrior?

Literally no equivalent exists, and it is dishonest to say otherwise.

Considering that now the vehicle hulls and weapons already have separate point costs, I have hard time imagining what this VDR can contain that people wanting to do this sort of thing couldn't already easily do.


In any case, In addition to point adjustments and some stuff for neglected minor factions (crosses fingers for the return of proper gear options for Inquisitors) one thing I'd really like to see in this is expanded terrain rules, as that is the one aspect in the main rules I find is really lacking.

 Crimson wrote:
Considering that now the vehicle hulls and weapons already have separate point costs, I have hard time imagining what this VDR can contain that people wanting to do this sort of thing couldn't already easily do.

Give them an official way of doing so?

In any case, In addition to point adjustments and some stuff for neglected minor factions (crosses fingers for the return of proper gear options for Inquisitors) one thing I'd really like to see in this is expanded terrain rules, as that is the one aspect in the main rules I find is really lacking.

Inquisitors can rot.

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

Have you not been paying attention? this has been the plan from the very outset; additional rules and scenarios and points revisions annually, like with Age of Sigmar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Considering that now the vehicle hulls and weapons already have separate point costs, I have hard time imagining what this VDR can contain that people wanting to do this sort of thing couldn't already easily do.

Give them an official way of doing so?

More than that - it tells them that this sort of customisation is allowed and approved. A bit contradictory that people might need official approval to do their own thing, but that's the hobby these days, it seems.

Honestly, I think it's mostly a novel way to sell more land raiders.

The VDR vehicles are not MATCH PLAY legal.

 adamsouza wrote:
Honestly, I think it's mostly a novel way to sell more land raiders.

The VDR vehicles are not MATCH PLAY legal.

It gives me a reason to seek out the Deathwatch Land Raider, but otherwise, unless they start selling additional parts for Land Raiders separately, these rules won't sell any new kits.

What I'm gathering from this thread and the Community post is that there's now more options to stick on vehicles. Does that mean Baal Predator bits too?

It might be a bit novel and a bit unnecessary but it's a fun idea. And there seems to be rules like that for every faction too, so it's not just more stuff for Marines.

New Apocalypse Rules in Chapter Approved.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/19/get-ready-for-chapter-approved-apocalypse-returns-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

 anyname121 wrote:
What I'm gathering from this thread and the Community post is that there's now more options to stick on vehicles. Does that mean Baal Predator bits too?

It might be a bit novel and a bit unnecessary but it's a fun idea. And there seems to be rules like that for every faction too, so it's not just more stuff for Marines.

The VDR rules are literally just for creating Land Raiders. There's a "guideline" there it seems that can be used for other designs, but the intention is just Marines for the moment.

Likely it has everything to do with the fact that Land Raiders, as a chassis, have very little in the way options right now. There's 3 different builds but they are basically just weapon swaps.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 anyname121 wrote:
What I'm gathering from this thread and the Community post is that there's now more options to stick on vehicles. Does that mean Baal Predator bits too?

It might be a bit novel and a bit unnecessary but it's a fun idea. And there seems to be rules like that for every faction too, so it's not just more stuff for Marines.

The VDR rules are literally just for creating Land Raiders. There's a "guideline" there it seems that can be used for other designs, but the intention is just Marines for the moment.

Likely it has everything to do with the fact that Land Raiders, as a chassis, have very little in the way options right now. There's 3 different builds but they are basically just weapon swaps.

Yes, but the Baal Predator Sponsons bits work on a Land Raider, so Heavy Flamer Sponsons can go on a Land Raider. Same with the Helfrost Cannon turrets.

Hopefully the transport options for LR's include an ability to carry Primaris but I doubt it.

Same with custom LR's for Inquisition, Custodes, and Deathwatch - Inquisition would be THE most likely to have a custom version.

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

From a Chaos Titan-killer bristling with lascannons, to a Space Wolves assault vehicle armed with both helfrost and inferno cannons, there’s a huge range of possibilities available.

Yep. All sorts of possibilities than involving making transport capacity as small as possible and killing ability as large as possible for the fewest points. What a fantastic idea.

Yeah, it's wonderful since it cannot be used for matched play.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully the transport options for LR's include an ability to carry Primaris but I doubt it.

Same with custom LR's for Inquisition, Custodes, and Deathwatch - Inquisition would be THE most likely to have a custom version.

I would pay points for a Land Raider or Rhino to have the ability to take Primaris. I wouldn't even bat an eye if they took twice as many slots as a regular Marine.

I hope they try and makes orks suck a little less..

Lord Kragan wrote:

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

From a Chaos Titan-killer bristling with lascannons, to a Space Wolves assault vehicle armed with both helfrost and inferno cannons, there’s a huge range of possibilities available.

Yep. All sorts of possibilities than involving making transport capacity as small as possible and killing ability as large as possible for the fewest points. What a fantastic idea.

Yeah, it's wonderful since it cannot be used for matched play.

Matched Play isn't the be-all and end-all. Never saw the point of it, myself.

Hopefully we'll see most of the vehicles get reworked a bit. The Knights are perhaps the silliest ones for me, with 5 variants that essentially amount to "pick 2 arms". There's only one combination that isn't legal and it doesn't even like that strong of a choice. No reason that can't be reworked into a single codex entry.

 LunarSol wrote:
Hopefully we'll see most of the vehicles get reworked a bit. The Knights are perhaps the silliest ones for me, with 5 variants that essentially amount to "pick 2 arms". There's only one combination that isn't legal and it doesn't even like that strong of a choice. No reason that can't be reworked into a single codex entry.

OR they could build upon these "different hands" design and add some flavorful rules for knight variants.
Something like exalted court of house Terryn formation gave to them, to add some sense into taking certain suboptimal builds.

Devastators are essentially tacticals with different weapons as well, but thet got some nice gadjets and now feel more differentiated.

But I agree that Knight Renegade entry shows how pityful Codex Imperial Knights looks, i wish they could afford including forgeworld knitghts or just overhaul knights' codex into more complex supplement with some household infantry support units and may be something else.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

Have you not been paying attention? this has been the plan from the very outset; additional rules and scenarios and points revisions annually, like with Age of Sigmar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Considering that now the vehicle hulls and weapons already have separate point costs, I have hard time imagining what this VDR can contain that people wanting to do this sort of thing couldn't already easily do.

Give them an official way of doing so?

More than that - it tells them that this sort of customisation is allowed and approved. A bit contradictory that people might need official approval to do their own thing, but that's the hobby these days, it seems.

Its mostly due to the size of this hobby. Because of how popular 40k is, local groups can be quite a bit larger than those of other gaming systems, and you're much more likely to encounter new faces at your shop popping in to play a couple games of 40k compared to, say, Malifaux, Infinity, or Warmahordes. Something being in the official rules makes it much easier for everyone involved to do these kinda things compared to having to explain local house rules to new players every time and potentially have arguments over them. Its much more painless to simply say "It says I can field a LR with half a dozen flamers on it in this book here since we're playing Narrative or Open play" instead of "our house rules here say you can customize your vehicles however you want so long as they are WYSIWYG, so this LR with half a dozen flamers on it with 6 assault terminators in it is totally allowed".

Nothing wrong with making official rules allowing people to customize things, especially given how .... "understanding", "cooperative", and "compromising" your average wargamer is.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 anyname121 wrote:
What I'm gathering from this thread and the Community post is that there's now more options to stick on vehicles. Does that mean Baal Predator bits too?

It might be a bit novel and a bit unnecessary but it's a fun idea. And there seems to be rules like that for every faction too, so it's not just more stuff for Marines.

The VDR rules are literally just for creating Land Raiders. There's a "guideline" there it seems that can be used for other designs, but the intention is just Marines for the moment.

Likely it has everything to do with the fact that Land Raiders, as a chassis, have very little in the way options right now. There's 3 different builds but they are basically just weapon swaps.

Yes, but the Baal Predator Sponsons bits work on a Land Raider, so Heavy Flamer Sponsons can go on a Land Raider. Same with the Helfrost Cannon turrets.

"What’s best about these rules is that they’re just guidelines, aimed at providing a strong base for you to build on with conversions of your own. The beauty of open play is the variety and experimentation it allows, and perhaps you could apply these rules to Predators or even Tyranid bio-beasts."

Direct quote from the Warhammer Community page, so it looks like you're right. I'd like to see some official stuff for other vehicles but if Land Raiders then Predators too. At least that's what I'm going to do with it. Do Hurricane Bolter sponsons work on Rhino chassis? That's the real question.

 anyname121 wrote:
Direct quote from the Warhammer Community page, so it looks like you're right. I'd like to see some official stuff for other vehicles but if Land Raiders then Predators too. At least that's what I'm going to do with it. Do Hurricane Bolter sponsons work on Rhino chassis? That's the real question.

The ones from the Stormraven kit should be for rhino sized doors.

Stormraven Hurricane Bolters absolutely do work for the Rhino Chassis. Back in 7th, there was a custom variant of the Razorback that had twin Assault Cannons and Hurricane Bolters.

What would be cool is a Stormraven sporting some of the Predator Sponsons (HB or Lascannons). Could do 2x2 Twin Lascannons and Twin Multi-Meltas.

Neronoxx wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:


They aren't trying to sell you anything. They are just giving again funny rules to make your own custom Land Raiders and probably other vehicles in the future to use in narrative and open games. I know for many people only "Matched Play" exist, but this is exactly the kind of things they need to do to expand Narrative (And Open) in their own thing, instead of "Matched but with Powerlevels"

Point being releasing this limited system in open is pretty pointless as open already has even more varied system. Custom land raider? Pff. What about custom ork boy? Custom fire warrior? Custom aspect warrior?

Literally no equivalent exists, and it is dishonest to say otherwise.

Lol yeah right I forgot these days players need GW official approval stamp even in games where point is hash it out with your friends.

Sigh. No wonder creativity is dying in this hobby when even on rule system(open game) that is all about freedom and sorting it out with your friends you still need rules how to sort it out. Why bother with open game system then if there's no...you know actual OPEN in it?

People don’t normally allow others to use homebrew rules in pickup games at the LGS. Even if they do, that’s more negotiation before the game, where your rules need to be inspected to make sure you’re not creating something horrible in the name of WAAC.

 Verviedi wrote:
People don’t normally allow others to use homebrew rules in pickup games at the LGS. Even if they do, that’s more negotiation before the game, where your rules need to be inspected to make sure you’re not creating something horrible in the name of WAAC.

Open games aren't exactly pick up games though...If you play open game you need to be sorting out everything yourself including forces. If you are looking for quick let's start roll dice you are looking at the matched play with points etc. Not open.

When VDR came out the first time in the early days of chapter approved it caused a ragestorm on forums back then as well.

So this is kind of history repeating itself.

However back in the day there was no concept of matched play and open play, so if the VDR rules are not usable in matched play I think that it won't be as bad.

I also think it will be dead on arrival because if its not matched play, most people seem to ignore it (same as in AOS).

One wonders why someone would ever actually play “Open Play”. The negotiation before game saves no time - in the time spent on all of the bargaining and self-balancing, one could easily write a list with power levels, or if you really want to, points. The Open War cards combined with Narrative Play or Matched Play provide anything you’ll ever want diversitywise.

Any leaks for Necron changes?

 Verviedi wrote:
One wonders why someone would ever actually play “Open Play”. The negotiation before game saves no time - in the time spent on all of the bargaining and self-balancing, one could easily write a list with power levels, or if you really want to, points. The Open War cards combined with Narrative Play or Matched Play provide anything you’ll ever want diversitywise.

/sarcasm on
One wonders why someone would ever actually play "Narrative Play". I don't want a story, I want to blow things up.
/sarcasm off

The reason for Open Play is so that people can play the game without having artificial restrictions that exist in Matched Play like "1 Officer: 1 Command Squad" or "Psykers can only ever cast the same power once per turn; even if they all know it."
Narrative Play is, quite frankly, never really going to be something that people jump up and down to play as pick-up games since the perception is that "Narrative Play is for running Campaigns".

Narrative play is also not about competition largely. And a lot of people think "points = balance" and so stick primarily to matched play for that.