Rumored point changes in Chapter approved 2017

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**BoomWolf**

I'm Tau too, but honestly the Tau rumors make me happy.

Because my other army, Thousand Sons, is REALLY getting shafted.

Qoute myself from the thousand sons main thread
For those not aware, the things TS are supposedly getting:
Trait-reroll DtW.
Relic-on a double in casting, cant be denied.
Stratagem-1 CP for +2 in casting, if you are within 6" of two other TS psykers.
Psyker Power-WC7 pick an enemy within 18" and roll 9 dice, deal a MW on every 6.

BoomWolf wrote:
I'm seriusly hoping the faeit leak to be highly inaccurate, because these rules are HORRIBLE.

Who cares about the trait? its even worse than the rulebook ones.

The relic is also useless as hell, for the simple reason that double 1/2 is a fail cast anyway, double 5/6 highly unlikely to be denied (and double 6 is perils!)
So it leaves it to trigger only on double 3 or 4. 3's not always even cast anyway so I'll count it as half value, so there are 4s.
Congrats, the relic says that once in about 27 casts, it will do anything.
If the opponent even CAN deny to begin with.
YAY.

Unique psyker power-worse than smite, by far. WC7 for an average of lousy 1.5 MW?
It would hardly be noteworthy at WC5, but at 7 its pure trash.
Its a lousy downgraded infernal gaze-and gaze itself is bad already.

Stratagem, great. if your units are in a darn cluster. not like we got a massive unit count to begin with. oh, did I forget to mention we are TS and have a low unit count?
Sure, every rubric and scarab unit counts. but if they didn't it would be outright unusable.
It would be great, if psykers in general weren't bad in 8th (with the exception of smite spammers, or outright monsters)

Its not quite, but pretty darn close to getting nothing at all.
And it will give people the right to point out that we "have rules" despite them being completely useless.

**Kirasu**

I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

**Dionysodorus**

The faction-specific complaining seems kind of weird because really very few of the rumored/confirmed traits/relics/stratagems are particularly good. Almost everyone could reasonably complain that they barely got anything. These seem like pretty minor things thrown in to give these factions something. If CA is going to have a big effect on the game it's going to be in changing point costs.

**Arachnofiend**

Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

Maybe they're giving everyone their worst traits in CA so people will still buy the codex? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

**Kirasu**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

Maybe they're giving everyone their worst traits in CA so people will still buy the codex? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They know full well 40k players buy every book that comes out.

**WatcherZero**

Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

All Psyker get +1 to their psychic rolls and all non-psyker get FNP or morale immunity?

lore wise best attributes they would have.

**Galas**

Well. From a pure objective point of view, every Index army is gonna be better after CA than before it (Unless they become more expensive because their points go up)

So even if the Stratagem, Warlord Trait and Relic are useless... well. It isn't you had anything before, no? So a useless buff is better than no buff.

The Codex is the real and big deal. If they screw you in the Codex, well... just look at the poor Grey Knights.

**Formosa**

Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

**Audustum**

Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

**Nym**

Galas wrote:
So a useless buff is better than no buff.

No. A useless buff is just... useless.

I was hoping for a stopgap Legion trait (even just +1 to Invulnerable saves like Ephemeral form) or a Warlord trait / Relic that would convince me to run my Thousand Sons as, you know, Thousand Sons. But it seems that until our codex comes out my Thousand Sons will be Alpha legionnaries...

And of course, I'll have to take a tax Patrol detachment if I want to use Ahriman and my Scarab Occult Terminators. Awesome.

**Galas**

I tried to add some optimism to the mix. As others have said, what is gonna make or broke most of the Index lists is point costs.

**Formosa**

Audustum wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

Got a link for that because I havent seen it.

**Voss**

Formosa wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

Got a link for that because I havent seen it.

It's up on the warham community site. Has been for days.

or you can scroll back through the thread, where someone was explicitly verifying the things in whoever's rumour and noting the ones that have popped up on WarCom.

**Ghaz**

Formosa wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

Got a link for that because I havent seen it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/744037.page#9707553

**Formosa**

Ghaz wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

Got a link for that because I havent seen it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/744037.page#9707553

Cheers, lets see if there tactic of throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks works out, you cant blame me for being mega skeptical about the source.

**Audustum**

Formosa wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

they wont they are the BS leak from Natfka, yet to see any reliable rumours of the contents on the new book.

So far what we've seen of those leaks has been 100% accurate, such as the IK relic sword.

Got a link for that because I havent seen it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/744037.page#9707553

Cheers, lets see if there tactic of throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks works out, you cant blame me for being mega skeptical about the source.

I don't blame you, I had my own hesitance, but it looks like they got this one.

**demontalons**

I’m still praying that the Tsons legion trait at least will be good

**Galas**

Spoiler:

Everyone, myself included, was very skeptical about this, and for reasons. But they appear to have got this right.

**DarthDiggler**

Audustum wrote:
Warpspy wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
At this point I'm just hoping that the new spells we get don't replace the CSM list. It'd be a massive nerf to lose Warptime, Prescience, Death Hex... So much good in that spell list and I'm not confident they can make something comparable.

I hope as Thousand sons are supposedly "masters of the warp" and the "greatest sorcerers of the galaxy" and blablabla... we could keep those powers (or with the same effect and another names) and add some useful and powerful ones (like a proper bolt of change, doombolt, etc, etc.)

But after seeing these, i guess we will not get CSM powers, and ours will be a list of "joke-powers" like the rumoured one... Really, GW is not doing a great job translating the story and background into actual rules

Yeah, Grey Knights have the same kind of fluff and we're not allowed access to Librarius so I wouldn't get your hopes up on keeping CSM powers, unfortunately.

And since Faiet seems to be right, I'm going to point out that this means GW is nerfing Centurion Devastators AGAIN (by raising the cost of Hurricane Bolters, which was their cheapest option for that slot, thus raising their overall cost). Because those guys have been dominating all the tables.

Centurion devastators are most hurt by being denied access to a drop Pod. Lowering the points of the Pod won’t make it playable. Allowing a unit that really needs it will.

**changemod**

Drop pod costs more than a rhino and doesn't put you in flamer or regular Melta range. The only way it could be any good is if it stopped paying out the butt for durability it has no use for and either struck closer whilst disallowing charges, or got given to a good assault unit that can't already deep strike, in the latter case probably by being the dreadnought drop pod.

I strongly suggest nerfing the hell out of it's durability so as to take that away as a justification for a bloated price. Make it something like T5 with 4 wounds or something, because it sure as heck doesn't have a reason to stay alive beyond pure area denial.

**DarthDiggler**

changemod wrote:
Drop pod costs more than a rhino and doesn't put you in flamer or regular Melta range. The only way it could be any good is if it stopped paying out the butt for durability it has no use for and either struck closer whilst disallowing charges, or got given to a good assault unit that can't already deep strike, in the latter case probably by being the dreadnought drop pod.

I strongly suggest nerfing the hell out of it's durability so as to take that away as a justification for a bloated price. Make it something like T5 with 4 wounds or something, because it sure as heck doesn't have a reason to stay alive beyond pure area denial.

I’d take a Pod at it’s points if it could get centurion assault squad 9 inches from a target. 6 meltaguns and 36 bolter shots on the drop with a captain or LT in tow. I’ll take the chance they don’t make the charge to do that damage and have that threat where I want them to be.

Instead of making the pod cheaper, allow it to carry a unique unit that can’t get around any other way and you make the drop Pod more valuable.

**Drudge Dreadnought**

Now that Mawlocs have broken the pattern of not allowing deep strikers within 9", we should see that extended to drop pods.

Let pods come in within 9" but further than 3" away. The unit inside can disembark that turn but cannot assault. Or it can stay embarked.

And give a 1CP strat to let it come in within 1" and deal some mortal wounds within 3", similar to the Mawloc.

Then give Blood Angels a 1 CP strat to let a unit charge the turn it drop pods.

**casvalremdeikun**

Well, good news is that the point changes stand a good chance of being real, so that will help my army out a bit by cutting the points (and raising them on some units that probably need them *Cough* Razorbacks *Cough*). I can't wait to see the final numbers. These changes will help my Blood Angels out a bit too, since I want to run some Inceptors with them. The increase in price for Hurricane Bolters and Assault Cannons hurts my single Stormraven though(built in early 7e, so it was actually kinda crap before).

I am a little underwhelmed with the Deathwatch rules, but these are a stopgap so I am not terribly concerned. Deathwatch are my fourth priority army. I will survive until the codex, I guess.

Edit: At least my Watch Master (that I will now be taking) can be a nice Micro-Guilliman. That or I might just give the Warlord Trait to Artemis since he is a bit more survivable. Though one of the Strategems requires a Watch Master, so maybe I will take them both. Hard to say.

**MrMoustaffa**

Do we have any news on IG points changes? I'm surprised with the uproar IG caused that I haven't seen any points tweaks for us yet. I'm kind of worried they're going to overdo us and nerf us into the ground with points costs or something.

**Nightlord1987**

Points values were never free. Power Levels were. So that's what you pay for.

The GW push for 8th edition has been Power Levels! Open Play!

So all the Matches Play stuff is supplementary add-ons. Index points cues weren't freelybavailable you needed the Index. Why would this be any different.

**NurglesR0T**

Nym wrote:
Galas wrote:
So a useless buff is better than no buff.

No. A useless buff is just... useless.

I was hoping for a stopgap Legion trait (even just +1 to Invulnerable saves like Ephemeral form) or a Warlord trait / Relic that would convince me to run my Thousand Sons as, you know, Thousand Sons. But it seems that until our codex comes out my Thousand Sons will be Alpha legionnaries...

And of course, I'll have to take a tax Patrol detachment if I want to use Ahriman and my Scarab Occult Terminators. Awesome.

Don't you already get +1 to invuln saves? (albeit only against Damage 1 attacks)

**Carnikang**

Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Now that Mawlocs have broken the pattern of not allowing deep strikers within 9", we should see that extended to drop pods.

Let pods come in within 9" but further than 3" away. The unit inside can disembark that turn but cannot assault. Or it can stay embarked.

And give a 1CP strat to let it come in within 1" and deal some mortal wounds within 3", similar to the Mawloc.

Then give Blood Angels a 1 CP strat to let a unit charge the turn it drop pods.

Mawlocs have always been able to do that. It's one of their only uses. The Jormung strat that allows untis to come along with a burrowing unit doesn't even work if the Mawloc does it's job. Units still can't be placed within 9" if they were transported.

If drop pods were changed in that way, I think a greater point increase would be called for and DeathLeaper would deserve back his ability to arrive 1" away from Chracters.

**Drudge Dreadnought**

Carnikang wrote:
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Now that Mawlocs have broken the pattern of not allowing deep strikers within 9", we should see that extended to drop pods.

Let pods come in within 9" but further than 3" away. The unit inside can disembark that turn but cannot assault. Or it can stay embarked.

And give a 1CP strat to let it come in within 1" and deal some mortal wounds within 3", similar to the Mawloc.

Then give Blood Angels a 1 CP strat to let a unit charge the turn it drop pods.

Mawlocs have always been able to do that. It's one of their only uses. The Jormung strat that allows untis to come along with a burrowing unit doesn't even work if the Mawloc does it's job. Units still can't be placed within 9" if they were transported.

If drop pods were changed in that way, I think a greater point increase would be called for and DeathLeaper would deserve back his ability to arrive 1" away from Chracters.

I think it would be good for the current meta if most deep strikers had to over over 9", but each army had access to a unit or two that could deep strike closer, but not charge that turn. But limit it to fast attack and harassment units. This would help give people a tool against the massive amount of chaff blobbing.

**pismakron**

That Thousand Sons psychich power looks extremely good, honestly. I hope the rubrics get a bit cheaper, also.

**tneva82**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
I gotta wonder how those completely garbage traits and abilities for Thousand Sons even gets past play testing? I thought they were play testing 8th rigorously now instead of simply throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks (7th ed)??

Maybe math doesn't work in the ivory tower.

Maybe they're giving everyone their worst traits in CA so people will still buy the codex? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They will still buy it because it's going to mandatory if you play with anybody but your friends. Like in FLGS, leagues, tournaments. Just like buying CA is going to be mandatory.

They can make codex absolutely sucky and crap and people will STILL buy it(or dump army and buy new one). So as long as codex rules are playable they get codex sold to every player. Codex doesn't sell only if it's so bad nobody wants to PLAY that faction.