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Dionysodorus wrote:
Units that are out of LoS never stop you from shooting at a Character, unless you have a weapon that ignores LoS. I assumed that this line in the article meant that they were changing this and now Characters are protected by closer units out of LoS.

It was being abused that putting a character in to combat meant it couldn't be shot at but as you can only shoot at the closest enemy character you couldn't shoot at the next nearest enemy character that wasn't in combat. They even disgustingly FAQ'd that it was working as intended. So this is a huge and welcome about face probably brought on by tanking assassins and all <character> lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it me or is the latest Regimental Standard teasing Sly Marbo?

 alextroy wrote:
Yeesh! I'm a Sisters player and I'll at least wait to see all the points changes before wailing. If we get enough breaks elsewhere, it could be a net gain.

Hell, they could increase Celestine to 200 Points but drop the Geminae to 25 each for no net gain if you bring both of them while needing the lone Saint and Saint + one at the same time.

This personally, i think, is the way to go. Celestine to me, SHOULD always be accompanied by at least 1 Gemini, but, currently points and rules just make it better to take her solo.

Kdash wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Yeesh! I'm a Sisters player and I'll at least wait to see all the points changes before wailing. If we get enough breaks elsewhere, it could be a net gain.

Hell, they could increase Celestine to 200 Points but drop the Geminae to 25 each for no net gain if you bring both of them while needing the lone Saint and Saint + one at the same time.

This personally, i think, is the way to go. Celestine to me, SHOULD always be accompanied by at least 1 Gemini, but, currently points and rules just make it better to take her solo.

Not to derail, but one geminae is the sweet spot.

Daedalus81 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:


It will NEVER ever kill anything in combat considering how fragile and slow he is. Also keep in mind that for 70 pt you get a Neurothrope with a 3++ that rerolls Psychic Tests of 1, gains 1 Wound per Psychic Phase if you kill something with Smite, casts 2 Psychic Power (mostly double Smite), provides Synapse and Shadow in the Warp and is untargetable as well.

You can cast smite once per caster. You can't double up on a caster. e.g. Magnus can't smite 3 times.

Double smite = Smite + the other psychic power that is Smite-like

Daedalus81 wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
I cant see how "dakka, dakka, dakka" will ever be worth spending a CP on, it might give one extra shot or two on a full loota squad but otherwise?

It would have been better if for spending the point each model in the unit would have had one more shot, or if it let a unit fire a second time.

Which would be bonkers for tank bustas or flash gitz.

I'd have done it "fire twice, but you may not shoot any weapons fired in the next turn's shooting phase" because the orks shoot wildly and expend all their ammo.

Good? Well, better. But potentially less abusive on the shooty units like FGs and TBs, because thye'd have to twiddle their thumbs for a turn, while the optimal use case would be to use your double shot, then charge into combat for the turn you dont get to shoot.

for every 10 orks in a unit they increase there BS by +1, any roll to hit of a 6+ is a hit regardless of modifiers.

the first part is not accuracy, its sheer Dakka and encourages bigger mobs, the second part stops all the crazy -1/-2 to hit combos completely negating ork shooting and also represents sheer Dakka.

Call the rule "Dakka Dakka Dakka!!" and not one person would complain.

Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

Very happy to see these points changes. Seeing such a drastic points increase in Malefic Lords is very heartening. Not only is GW actually listening and paying attention to the state of the game, they are willing to make necessary changes to better the game, even with FW units. If FW points adjustments are going to become a regular part of CA and other GW balance releases, I will be jumping for joy. Gone will be the days of FW bias and denying players games for wanting to use the cool expensive centerpiece model they just got. And of course if GW goes too far in the other direction and over adjusts things, well at most we'll have to wait for a year before they're fixed, as opposed to previous editions where we would be lucky to see them fixed in the same edition that they were broken. Now the only question is how sweeping and widespread will these changes be. Hopefully all factions will get proper adjustments!

The Traits and Strategems did have me a bit annoyed and worried (still am if I'm to be honest) but today's release has definitely reignited what hope and hype for CA I had lost.

Welp, no one will run a malefic lord ever again. Straight up worse than a Tzeentch Herald now. Not that I'm too torn up about it, but we better see the primaris psyker get a similar bump up in cost.

I hope Blight Drone and Plague Hulk go down in points. Since the CSM/DG codizes they seem rather overshadowed. And besides Necrosius they are my only FW units.
I wouldn't mind if Necrosius went up in points though, played him lately and compared to other sorcerers he was pretty awesome while costing the same or even less points.

 ph34r wrote:
Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

See, this is the problem. Cawl shouldn't be/have to be a complete auto include. As things stand, he is.

The other HQs are pretty ok, it's just people over look them because Cawl is the way he is. Just like BobbyG, so anything that makes them a choice, rather than an auto include is good.

Admech and Marine armies CAN do perfectly well without either Cawl or BobbyG - it's just getting people to make the choice to go down that route.

A 20 point jump for the Primaris may be tolerable and still fieldable, Astropath already has weakened Smite casting so shouldnt be touched. If they overreact and increase Primaris by the same amount it straight up wont be played and you will just see even more Company Commanders to fill the HQ slot.

Fluff wise they need to address armies being fielded of more than half a dozen company commanders and no platoon commanders, possibly by making platoon HQ with a small points increase and buffing and increasing the cost of Company to make a larger distinction between the two.

Kdash wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

See, this is the problem. Cawl shouldn't be/have to be a complete auto include. As things stand, he is.

The other HQs are pretty ok, it's just people over look them because Cawl is the way he is. Just like BobbyG, so anything that makes them a choice, rather than an auto include is good.

Admech and Marine armies CAN do perfectly well without either Cawl or BobbyG - it's just getting people to make the choice to go down that route.

But yeah maybe it would be nice if they made Tech Priest Dominus better instead?

WatcherZero wrote:
A 20 point jump for the Primaris may be tolerable and still fieldable, Astropath already has weakened Smite casting so shouldnt be touched. If they overreact and increase Primaris by the same amount it straight up wont be played and you will just see even more Company Commanders to fill the HQ slot.

Nope, if a malefic lord is worth 80 points then a Primaris Psyker is worth even more than that. Same deal with Spiritseers and Inquisitors. Errybody gets nerfed into the ground!

 ph34r wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

See, this is the problem. Cawl shouldn't be/have to be a complete auto include. As things stand, he is.

The other HQs are pretty ok, it's just people over look them because Cawl is the way he is. Just like BobbyG, so anything that makes them a choice, rather than an auto include is good.

Admech and Marine armies CAN do perfectly well without either Cawl or BobbyG - it's just getting people to make the choice to go down that route.

But yeah maybe it would be nice if they made Tech Priest Dominus better instead?

So you just assumed that literally the only Admech change in CA will be Cawl becoming more expensive? Assuming the worst possible scenario inmediatly?

I assume this is your personal theme, no?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

WatcherZero wrote:
A 20 point jump for the Primaris may be tolerable and still fieldable, Astropath already has weakened Smite casting so shouldnt be touched. If they overreact and increase Primaris by the same amount it straight up wont be played and you will just see even more Company Commanders to fill the HQ slot.

Nope, if a malefic lord is worth 80 points then a Primaris Psyker is worth even more than that. Same deal with Spiritseers and Inquisitors. Errybody gets nerfed into the ground!

Look at the bright side. If the rest of psykers become so expensive, TS will become better psykers just by comparison.

 ph34r wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

See, this is the problem. Cawl shouldn't be/have to be a complete auto include. As things stand, he is.

The other HQs are pretty ok, it's just people over look them because Cawl is the way he is. Just like BobbyG, so anything that makes them a choice, rather than an auto include is good.

Admech and Marine armies CAN do perfectly well without either Cawl or BobbyG - it's just getting people to make the choice to go down that route.

But yeah maybe it would be nice if they made Tech Priest Dominus better instead?

Or added a Skitarii Prime.

 ph34r wrote:
Increase in cost for our mandatory character and no buffs in sight yet for AdMech?

I'm already prepared to be super mad. First the codex, then the FAQ, then this. All awful.

Sounds good to me. Anything that hurts 'mandatory special characters' is a positive in my book.

As for no buffs... well, lack of evidence isn't evidence.

 Galas wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

WatcherZero wrote:
A 20 point jump for the Primaris may be tolerable and still fieldable, Astropath already has weakened Smite casting so shouldnt be touched. If they overreact and increase Primaris by the same amount it straight up wont be played and you will just see even more Company Commanders to fill the HQ slot.

Nope, if a malefic lord is worth 80 points then a Primaris Psyker is worth even more than that. Same deal with Spiritseers and Inquisitors. Errybody gets nerfed into the ground!

Look at the bright side. If the rest of psykers become so expensive, TS will become better psykers just by comparison.

That's largely why I'm laughing at all this; quantity of psykers has been so massively better than quality of psykers I welcome a flipped script.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Liking the leaks so far. Looking forward to some new goodies for the Harlequins. Alternatively, not looking forward to the inevitable points increase for the Malanthrope. It looks like nothing is safe.

That would be dumb, you're paying 90 pts for -1 to Hit and nothing more

And DAs pay 138, so.....

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I hope Blight Drone and Plague Hulk go down in points. Since the CSM/DG codizes they seem rather overshadowed. And besides Necrosius they are my only FW units.
I wouldn't mind if Necrosius went up in points though, played him lately and compared to other sorcerers he was pretty awesome while costing the same or even less points.

Yes tht would be cool, i like the plague hulk not for being some incredible killing machine because it certainly aint, but because it like the plague burst is dead ard!! So a much reduced cost would be awesome.

So did anyone have a full run-up of the current known points changes, or is it still all rumors?

Maelific lord going to 80 pts is insane.
They are now one of the worst options and will never see play IMO. 60 would have been enough...instead they turned the nerf dial to 11.
here's hoping that similar units with SMITE ability get similar nerf.
spirit seers, primarius, Tyrannid, etc..

 Melissia wrote:
So did anyone have a full run-up of the current known points changes, or is it still all rumors?

The only confirmed one is the Malefic.

Mandragola wrote:
Saying that it's a plague marine going viral - appropriately.

Note that the rumours say plague marines are going down from 19 to 17 ppm.

17ppm makes them much more viable. Very happy with this change. Only 4 points more than a normal SM and you gain DR, T5 and Plague Knives. Very much worth it.

A little disappointed that there is no mention of changes to the lacking terrain rules. Hanging onto hope that it will be in a future article!

 Galas wrote:
So you just assumed that literally the only Admech change in CA will be Cawl becoming more expensive? Assuming the worst possible scenario inmediatly?

Yeah it's silly, but I got my hopes UP for the codex and the FAQ, and those hopes were dashed, so I am setting my expectations at "super mad" so when the inevitable bad set of changes comes I am less horrified.

So the rumour of the Plague marines going down in points was true, hopefully the rumour of them being 17ppm is true because that'd be awesome. I wander if then the blight launcher will be going down to 10pts as per the same rumour, that would be sort of unnecessary, as they're already great weapons and would sort of make them the autotake

NurglesR0t wrote:

A little disappointed that there is no mention of changes to the lacking terrain rules. Hanging onto hope that it will be in a future article!

You must have skipped the last paragraph:

Come back tomorrow, when we’ll be looking at Battlezones – an exciting new option for all Warhammer 40,000 players that allows you to use a diverse range of terrain and thematic in-game effects.

I hope rubies go down by a point or two. Especially compared to a 17 point plague marine.

 Formosa wrote:
for every 10 orks in a unit they increase there BS by +1, any roll to hit of a 6+ is a hit regardless of modifiers.

the first part is not accuracy, its sheer Dakka and encourages bigger mobs, the second part stops all the crazy -1/-2 to hit combos completely negating ork shooting and also represents sheer Dakka.

Call the rule "Dakka Dakka Dakka!!" and not one person would complain.

Umm no. Orks should not be the best shooting army in the game. They are a close combat army with some shooting. Not the other way around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So the rumour of the Plague marines going down in points was true, hopefully the rumour of them being 17ppm is true because that'd be awesome. I wander if then the blight launcher will be going down to 10pts as per the same rumour, that would be sort of unnecessary, as they're already great weapons and would sort of make them the autotake

At 10pts it makes the blight launchers a viable option. Right now plasma is just far better and cheaper.

 alextroy wrote:

NurglesR0t wrote:

A little disappointed that there is no mention of changes to the lacking terrain rules. Hanging onto hope that it will be in a future article!

You must have skipped the last paragraph:

Come back tomorrow, when we’ll be looking at Battlezones – an exciting new option for all Warhammer 40,000 players that allows you to use a diverse range of terrain and thematic in-game effects.

I absolutely did miss that part. Thank you!