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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/22/get-ready-for-chapter-approved-matched-play-updates-nov-22gw-homepage-post-3/

Matched Play Updates

"Among the most significant changes is to Malefic Lords; these masters of malevolent magics are now 80 points – still a very competitive HQ choice for any aspiring Chaos champion, but less open to abuse by less scrupulous players. "

I’m amazed that they are going over the FW points costs in a GW book, and I’m incredibly glad that they are. This is excellent news.

Bring on this book right now please. Want!

I wonder if Primaris Psykers and Astropaths are also getting hit. Malefic Lords going super saiyan on Perils was nice, but it's certainly not 40 points nice. Plus the IG psykers have actual useful powers other than Smite.

But nerfs to the 3 big Imperium characters and to Malefic Lords are certainly welcome.

Removed for outdated.

Mandragola wrote:
I’m amazed that they are going over the FW points costs in a GW book, and I’m incredibly glad that they are. This is excellent news.

Bring on this book right now please. Want!

Yeah, I'm very surprised and happy to see that, though I expect my Shadow Spectres will get a little more expensive now.

Dionysodorus wrote:
I wonder if Primaris Psykers and Astropaths are also getting hit. Malefic Lords going super saiyan on Perils was nice, but it's certainly not 35 points nice. Plus the IG psykers have actual useful powers other than Smite.

But nerfs to the 3 big Imperium characters and to Malefic Lords are certainly welcome.

Warp Flux and Creeping Terror are pretty handy, I feel. As is the whole "Smite+2 Powers" thing. Primaris Psykers get that but Astropaths are Smite+1 other and Smite is on a single D6.

I find this interesting...

... while the rules on targeting characters have received a very slight change in order to prevent, for want of a better word, shenanigans involving line of sight manipulation.

 Ghaz wrote:
I find this interesting...

... while the rules on targeting characters have received a very slight change in order to prevent, for want of a better word, shenanigans involving line of sight manipulation.

Not surprised. There were situations where you could only see a character, but there were like 3 Scouts out of Line of Sight and closer so you couldn't technically shoot at the Character, or some stuff locked in Combat nearby so you couldn't shoot at anything. I expect both of those situations to change.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
I wonder if Primaris Psykers and Astropaths are also getting hit. Malefic Lords going super saiyan on Perils was nice, but it's certainly not 35 points nice. Plus the IG psykers have actual useful powers other than Smite.

But nerfs to the 3 big Imperium characters and to Malefic Lords are certainly welcome.

Warp Flux and Creeping Terror are pretty handy, I feel. As is the whole "Smite+2 Powers" thing. Primaris Psykers get that but Astropaths are Smite+1 other and Smite is on a single D6.

This is not really true. Creeping Terror is awful, like every Ld debuff power. And while you'll use Warp Flux if you can hit a vehicle with it, you only expect 13% more mortal wounds than if you'd tried to cast Smite instead. The 12" range means that it being targetable is not a big deal. Certainly every Chaos player would gladly trade knowing two powers from the R&H list with knowing two powers from the Guard list. Lots of the Guard ones are bad too but Psychic Barrier and Nightshroud are excellent.

But yes, Astropaths are not really Smite batteries. They're incredibly cheap buffers that also provide denies.

It sounds like their heart is in the right place. I'm not convinced they'll get it right, but at least it's clear they're listening and trying to adapt.

Requizen wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I find this interesting...

... while the rules on targeting characters have received a very slight change in order to prevent, for want of a better word, shenanigans involving line of sight manipulation.

Not surprised. There were situations where you could only see a character, but there were like 3 Scouts out of Line of Sight and closer so you couldn't technically shoot at the Character, or some stuff locked in Combat nearby so you couldn't shoot at anything. I expect both of those situations to change.

Units that are out of LoS never stop you from shooting at a Character, unless you have a weapon that ignores LoS. I assumed that this line in the article meant that they were changing this and now Characters are protected by closer units out of LoS.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I find this interesting...

... while the rules on targeting characters have received a very slight change in order to prevent, for want of a better word, shenanigans involving line of sight manipulation.

Not surprised. There were situations where you could only see a character, but there were like 3 Scouts out of Line of Sight and closer so you couldn't technically shoot at the Character, or some stuff locked in Combat nearby so you couldn't shoot at anything. I expect both of those situations to change.

Units that are out of LoS never stop you from shooting at a Character, unless you have a weapon that ignores LoS. I assumed that this line in the article meant that they were changing this and now Characters are protected by closer units out of LoS.

That is not true as I read the rule. I believe it says the character has to be closest, not closest visible. So they might tweak that.

Audustum wrote:

That is not true as I read the rule. I believe it says the character has to be closest, not closest visible. So they might tweak that.

My rulebook says:

" A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. "

I'm a little bit surprised to see the cost reduction for the Sicaran Venator. If they really dropping it by ~100 points it will be hardly more expensive than a Predator. It's a lot better than a Predator. I'd agree that it needed a cut, but am curious to see how much it is.

It could be that they were talking about other stuff for the 100pt+ cuts. Some of the big stuff could certainly do with that kind of reduction.

This book is going to result in a massive change to the meta though. Can't wait to see the changes.

I'm interested in the orkanaut price cut - I honestly think that if it just got an up-gunning, it would be pretty decent for the points, especially compared to wraith/imperial knights.

But price cut isn't bad.

Malefic Lords at 80pts is nuts.

If they do that AND Nerf Smite, it'll be an absolutely Deathknell to psychic armies.

Curious to see what happens next.

80 point Malefic Lords aren't as nuts as they were at 30 points.

Liking the leaks so far. Looking forward to some new goodies for the Harlequins. Alternatively, not looking forward to the inevitable points increase for the Malanthrope. It looks like nothing is safe.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
80 point Malefic Lords aren't as nuts as they were at 30 points.

That's why it's nuts.

For 83pts you can have a Herald of Tzeentch, which has a 24" Smite, gives a bonus to nearby Daemons, as well as having cohesion bonuses with Daemons.

A Malefic Lord is just a Malefic Lord. It doesn't synergise, it doesn't provide an added benefit. It is similar to, for example, a 45pt Imperial Psyker or Spiritseer in that it simply acts as a Psyker, not a support unit.

You're paying a premium for synergy without receiving synergy.

They also have this picture:

The left side are the three Imperium heroes going up in price. On the right, there's a Deathjester and two other things I don't recognize.

Dionysodorus wrote:
They also have this picture:

The left side are the three Imperium heroes going up in price. On the right, there's a Deathjester and two other things I don't recognize.

The big thing is a Gorkanaut (or possibly Morkanaut)

Dionysodorus wrote:
They also have this picture:

The left side are the three Imperium heroes going up in price. On the right, there's a Deathjester and two other things I don't recognize.

Death Jeseter, Mork/Gorkanaut, Exalted Champion, maybe? It's a CSM Character.

Dionysodorus wrote:
They also have this picture:

The left side are the three Imperium heroes going up in price. On the right, there's a Deathjester and two other things I don't recognize.

Top right is a chaos lord, i believe.

I've been corrected that it's a plague marine.

Bottom is a Morkanaught.

Sigh... Cawl does not need to go up in points.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
They also have this picture:

The left side are the three Imperium heroes going up in price. On the right, there's a Deathjester and two other things I don't recognize.

Death Jeseter, Mork/Gorkanaut, Exalted Champion, maybe? It's a CSM Character.

Death Jester
Gork/Morkanaut
Plague Marine

It's one of the basic Plague Marines from the Dark Imperium set.

Edit: ninjd
If plague marines go down I will be happy, for they will be better, and sad, for I will have to paint more.

Top right is one of the Plague Marines.

Isn't this just a plaque marine?

Neronoxx wrote:
Edit: ninjd
If plague marines go down I will be happy, for they will be better, and sad, for I will have to paint more.

It says they are going down so...I'd be surprised if they aren't?