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Fellas, could you tell me if this stratagem works with any Whirlwind-keyworded unit or just the one in the codex?

The fact that it says "Whirlwind" and not "<WHIRLWIND>" seems to suggest it only works on the normal ones. It would be amazing on the FW variants!

Isn't it the same with the Helbrute Fire Frenzy stratagem that doesn't affect the forgeworld ones because it says "Helbrute" and not "<Helbrute>"?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Fellas, could you tell me if this stratagem works with any Whirlwind-keyworded unit or just the one in the codex?

I like where your head is at, I wondered about the same combo! My read is the same as the above responses. Given that they actually sold a FW bundle in 2017 for this exact strat, though, I think it might just be an oversight of wording? I still might try this out with a regular whirlwind.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Fellas, could you tell me if this stratagem works with any Whirlwind-keyworded unit or just the one in the codex?

Good question. Email GW and ask your next tournament organizer.

abyrn wrote:
I think the best part of the relic is that you can give it to one Talonmaster and give the Heavenfall blade to a second one


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Are the points drops in landspeeders and the associated weapons enough to justify taking a squadron of them? Or is it still better to just take more talonmasters?

The drops for regular speeders and weapons is enough to push it over the edge for me, at least to try it out so I can see how it comares. I think that the many, many different configurations you can kit them out with gives them a lot of flexibility and utility. I'm currently exploring ways to bring along at least 2 very different squads. Honestly, though, even if regular speeders turn out to be better in the long run, you're not really going to hurt yourself too much in the short-term if you bring 3 talonmasters instead for just a tiny bit of dakka, maybe a very modest sword here and there.

Won a stalker at a GT, what's the general consensus on them? I want to like it because of the 6 autocannon shots and looking kind of cool. With azrael (and what DA player isn't running him) I think they could even be decent at ground targets, at 109 points seems like a lot of dakka on a pretty durable platform.

Those autocannons do get cheaper in Chapter Approved, but still consider selling it on eBay unless you're really trying to make vehicles work. All Space Marine vehicles are in a bad place still.


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(except maybe Land Raiders)


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maybe.

Sadly they don't get cheaper, they are icarus storm autocannons (heavy 3), instead of just normal icarus autocannons (heavy 2). I guess I'll just keep it and goof off with it then, has that 5th ed vibe in the way it looks, like someone left a bored tech marine alone with a rhino for too long, and the word heretek gets whispered in the halls now.

*edit* Nevermind I'm wrong, 95 points now, you know i've made worse decisions in list building

Hi All!
After CA 2018 I’m thinking about to (re-)use DWK’s because of the point sink.
My Idea actual is:
9 DWK
1 DW Ancient
1 TDA Libby with the re-roll hit and wound spell.
Should be around 500pts for this package.

My concern is actual how to bring them into the battle. Should I deep strike them or ride with an LRC?

Would do you think?

Maxamato wrote:
Hi All!
After CA 2018 I’m thinking about to (re-)use DWK’s because of the point sink.
My Idea actual is:
9 DWK
1 DW Ancient
1 TDA Libby with the re-roll hit and wound spell.
Should be around 500pts for this package.

My concern is actual how to bring them into the battle. Should I deep strike them or ride with an LRC?

Would do you think?

To make deep strike work, you'd need a warlord guy with master of maneuver, and even that would make you successfully charge at 47%. I'd rather spend the points in a LRC (which is also cheaper now - not even 270p with base gear). However, I don't think a LRC can hold them all... 16 slots = 8 termies total. You'd have to ditch 3 DWKs

IF you make your librarian your warlord and pick the "reroll charge" trait, it's kinda ok to deep strike them (you either reroll both dice with the trait or use a CP to reroll only one).
Otherwise I wouldn't since if you miss the charge you're screwed with move 5.
Also 9 might be overkill, depends what you're planning to smash though

Yeah, if I put them into a LRC I have to adjust the squad size.

Idea was to have an hard counter for i.e. IK's etc.

The point with LRC I have is, that if the LRC get's destroyed in T1 the Knights have to walk.

Hmm......

Add an Imperial Knight too. Force them to choose between killing your Land Raider and killing the Knight.

counter to IK is 2 units of plasma inceptors + jump pack captain and lieutenant + overcharge + weapons of the dark age

abyrn wrote:
Did the Dark Talon actually go down in points? Is it not still 180+20 for wargear?

Ravenwing and Deathwing got a lot better though.

Still the same (over)price AFAIK but nobody has bothered to confirm.

It's still 180+20 for hurricane bolters.

 Therion wrote:

abyrn wrote:
Did the Dark Talon actually go down in points? Is it not still 180+20 for wargear?

Ravenwing and Deathwing got a lot better though.

Still the same (over)price AFAIK but nobody has bothered to confirm.

Dark Talon is not overpriced, it was broken before the spring FAQ bumped it up. It is still crazy good. I'm frankly just glad it didn't get another price bump in CA2018.

Guys, I've been thinking about the stratagem The Lion and the Wolf. Now with the Space Wolves codex released and CA2018 points reductions, this might be a funny Furrylord for us:

Wolf Lord (117)
- Jump Pack
- Thunder Hammer
- Storm Shield
- The Wulfen Stone (relic)

With the stratagem, this little fella will make 6 attacks at WS2+ S10 AP-3 D3, re-rolling 1s. Althought it doesn't have the re-roll charges + no overwatch relic (the latter easily mitigated by terrain) nor a D4 Thunder hammer, it does a better job than the Slamguinius, damage-wise.

Now, to bring him to the field: I'm thinking either a Patrol detach with Grey Hunters (cheaper, at 182p all) or a Vanguard detach with 3x Wolf Scouts (more expensive at 282p minimum, but with 3 units that can enter through the enemy's backfield and bring a plasma/meltagun per squad - increasing the total price to 315p for plasmaguns) and getting the 1 CP back.

What say you?

Edit: forgot the 3d6 blood angel strat to charge...

 Vector Strike wrote:
Guys, I've been thinking about the stratagem The Lion and the Wolf. Now with the Space Wolves codex released and CA2018 points reductions, this might be a funny Furrylord for us:

Wolf Lord (117)
- Jump Pack
- Thunder Hammer
- Storm Shield
- The Wulfen Stone (relic)

With the stratagem, this little fella will make 6 attacks at WS2+ S10 AP-3 D3, re-rolling 1s. Althought it doesn't have the re-roll charges + no overwatch relic (the latter easily mitigated by terrain) nor a D4 Thunder hammer, it does a better job than the Slamguinius, damage-wise.

Now, to bring him to the field: I'm thinking either a Patrol detach with Grey Hunters (cheaper, at 182p all) or a Vanguard detach with 3x Wolf Scouts (more expensive at 282p minimum, but with 3 units that can enter through the enemy's backfield and bring a plasma/meltagun per squad - increasing the total price to 315p for plasmaguns) and getting the 1 CP back.

What say you?

Edit: forgot the 3d6 blood angel strat to charge...

Could be fun. Yes the Blood Angel reliability of the charge after deepstrike is huge. Plus the strat to give them D3 extra attacks may make them get better damage output. Still the Wolf Lord will def get work done.

For the wolf stuff though - maybe 3x Long Fangs? Long Range firepower that ignores negs to hit (I think that is their special rule?). Only because I feel like a lot of good DA stuff needs to get in close range to be most efficient. Would be nice to have some long range support. Much more pricier though. Chuck in a rune priest (?) for the intercept strat.

MaxB wrote:

Could be fun. Yes the Blood Angel reliability of the charge after deepstrike is huge. Plus the strat to give them D3 extra attacks may make them get better damage output. Still the Wolf Lord will def get work done.

For the wolf stuff though - maybe 3x Long Fangs? Long Range firepower that ignores negs to hit (I think that is their special rule?). Only because I feel like a lot of good DA stuff needs to get in close range to be most efficient. Would be nice to have some long range support. Much more pricier though. Chuck in a rune priest (?) for the intercept strat.

Ugh, another strat I've forgotten. Yeah, in this prism I'd rather bring the Slamguinius + 3 scouts. The Wolf Lord at least saves more CP

Long fangs alone, with missile launchers, would cost closer to 600p. At this point the flea infestation in my list would be too much

Long Fangs don't natively ignore hit penalties, or they'd be better Dark Reapers. They can use a stratagem to do so, but only 1 unit per phase could use it. So diminishing returns on multiple units. As far as how to ally in a Wolf Lord, I'd say maybe take a Supreme Command with 2 of them and a Rune Priest. Rune Priest takes the Fury of the Wolf Spirits and the -1 to hit power, and you should also have a DA libby with Aversion in there as well, to either stack -1s to hit or put it on multiple enemies. One Wolf Lord could benefit from The Lion and the Wolf and take the Wulfen Stone, while the other could perhaps take the Armor of Russ to make an enemy swing last in combat. Could add some pretty solid melee potential to a DA list, without being as CP intensive as bringing the Blood Angels guy.

A fair enough - my mistake on the Long Fangs. Yeah the rune priest/DA Librarian combo would be fun to try.

So, anyone know why none of our characters got an adjustment in points in CA? Seems really odd with the changes to Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Custodes and Space Marine characters.

Most of our characters were already solid at their current costs. Azrael is still amazing value at 180, for example. A lot of the characters that got price cuts were overcosted before.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Most of our characters were already solid at their current costs. Azrael is still amazing value at 180, for example. A lot of the characters that got price cuts were overcosted before.

I agree with Azrael, but I feel that Belial, Sammael on Corvex and Asmodai are a little overpriced when you compare to other characters new prices.

 bullyboy wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Most of our characters were already solid at their current costs. Azrael is still amazing value at 180, for example. A lot of the characters that got price cuts were overcosted before.

I agree with Azrael, but I feel that Belial, Sammael on Corvex and Asmodai are a little overpriced when you compare to other characters new prices.

Asmodai in a Land Raider with terminators makes them twice as good. You're both right about the others.

bonus pic


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The Ravenwing detachment is absolutely as good as I'd hoped

yeah, I feel that the Attack Squadron has some real merits.

How do you interpret the swift strike stratagem - can it be used in your opponents fight phase? This will of course open up for a lot of tricks !?