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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I feel like that's a gimmick with too many moving parts to work well. That being said, if you skip the Reivers and the Chappy and just go with the -1 leadership powers and then cast Trephination, it should still work well enough.

Personally, I want to try running the Phobos libby with a regular DA libby and a SW Rune Priest for the combo of Hallucination, Aversion and Tempest's Wrath (potential -3 to hit on one unit or -1 on three different units). Throw in a Darkshroud and maybe the Mind Wipe power and you can really stack up the negative hit modifiers.

I'm keen on using that as well!

Hallucination is far too unreliable to build around.

Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

Timur wrote:
Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

I'm interested in hearing more about this list. I'd also love to see the list itself and I was wondering whether you'd consider the Ravenwing Attack Squadron.

Timur wrote:
Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

GW FAQed it:
Page 101 – Sanctic Discipline, Sanctuary Change the rules text to read:
‘Sanctuary has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, pick a friendly Grey Knights unit within 12" of the psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, the invulnerable save of that unit is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 3+). Models that do not have an invulnerable save instead gain a 5+ invulnerable save.'

Orkinstein wrote:

Timur wrote:
Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

GW FAQed it:
Page 101 – Sanctic Discipline, Sanctuary Change the rules text to read:
‘Sanctuary has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, pick a friendly Grey Knights unit within 12" of the psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, the invulnerable save of that unit is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 3+). Models that do not have an invulnerable save instead gain a 5+ invulnerable save.'

Oh jeez, because GK were so OP before. SMH

Orkinstein wrote:

Timur wrote:
Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

GW FAQed it:
Page 101 – Sanctic Discipline, Sanctuary Change the rules text to read:
‘Sanctuary has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, pick a friendly Grey Knights unit within 12" of the psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, the invulnerable save of that unit is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 3+). Models that do not have an invulnerable save instead gain a 5+ invulnerable save.'

You just have use HEED THE PROGNOSTICARS stratagem on Draigo and you will still have 2++


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 necr0n wrote:

Timur wrote:
Not sure about new primaris stuff, but ive had some pretty good success with running DA+GK:
3 dark talons
shroud
sammy
talonmaster
3 scouts
2 GMNDK
draigo

Dark talons with speeders clear screens like no other, i usually drop bombs turn 1 since this way they do much more damage than being inside auras

Some times dark talons are better than snipers, when opponent leaves characters in the backfield, simply move + advance and kill

GMNDKs along with Draigo can be boosted up to 2++ which helps staying on the board for a long time and have good close combat as well as psychic protection

I'm interested in hearing more about this list. I'd also love to see the list itself and I was wondering whether you'd consider the Ravenwing Attack Squadron.

Well, this is not the best list out there and i think taking blood angels as allies works much better since that leaves some points for inceptors with plasma.
But, i think it has good potential against armies with lots of casters and high AP weapons. You can deny with +1, use 3 dice to deny an important spell.
And the dreadknights are awsome models

As for attack squadron, i cant find mush use for it. I have tried running 5 man squads of black knights, but unless you are going first you might not even get a chance to shoot with them.
They are fragile and get killed fast.
I think attack squadron is a must have if you are fielding black knights, since that will allow you to overcharge without worrying of dying.
If you are going against eldar you might also want to take it, as they have built in -1 to hit and can boost it to -2 to hit when you shoot them.

I've found the Ravenwing +1 to hit strat useful with Sammael and Talonmasters more than with Black Knights. Usually with the Black Knights shooting anything else at the same target is overkill, but Sammael giving the Talonmasters a +1 to hit is great for removing the hit penalty for moving, and it is rare that Sammael does not get at least 1 wound on something, even a Knight.

edit: The move after fighting strat I have not found a good use for though, a single Talonmasters/Sammael or the Black Knights don't really have much of a melee punch to be worth spending 2cp for.

The +1 to hit strat is great. Like the T'au Sept one except ours only costs 1 CP compared to their 3. It was very clutch for me in a game against Orks a couple of weeks ago.

The Attack Squadron +1 to hit Strat is great. At a recent tourney I put a Custodes player on his back foot with a Black Knight Squadron supercharging/WFtDA after Sammael got a wound on the Dawn Eagles. The same went for Alaitoc. Enemies with -1 to hit rules are hell for our plasma, so getting around that is gold! It's gold Jerry!

I am thinking about putting a small Ravenwing squad in my 2k list in place of my 3rd Dev squad. I am running a gunline army with some Deathwing friends dropping in so I might need the help for objective grabbing.

I've been finding my typical list is too static also. Thinking of going half green half black to see if that helps. I haven't found the right balance yet.

My new list is the following:
Battalion: Dark Angels
Sammael in Sableclaw
Ravenwing Talonmaster
3x 5 Scouts
10 Ravenwing Black Knights
2x Ravenwing Dark Talon
Outrider: Dark Angels
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Ravenwing Darkshroud
2x 3 Ravenwing Bikers: Storm Bolter on Sgts.
Battalion: Astra Militarum
2x Company Commander: Boltgun
3x Infantry Squad
Both DA detachments will get the Ravenwing Attack Squadron treatment, and the two Talonmasters will each get one of the relic swords. I feel like this scratches the mobile itch really well and can mulch hordes hard, which is good in a meta with Orks and Genestealer Cults around. The hardest part is going to be keeping the Black Knights alive, especially if facing Dark Reapers (who don't care about Darkshrouds). I also have the Guard stuff for objective holding and extra Command Points.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about using the Detachment stratagem on two different detachments, it looks like a good list.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
My new list is the following:
Battalion: Dark Angels
Sammael in Sableclaw
Ravenwing Talonmaster
3x 5 Scouts
10 Ravenwing Black Knights
2x Ravenwing Dark Talon
Outrider: Dark Angels
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Ravenwing Darkshroud
2x 3 Ravenwing Bikers: Storm Bolter on Sgts.
Battalion: Astra Militarum
2x Company Commander: Boltgun
3x Infantry Squad
Both DA detachments will get the Ravenwing Attack Squadron treatment, and the two Talonmasters will each get one of the relic swords. I feel like this scratches the mobile itch really well and can mulch hordes hard, which is good in a meta with Orks and Genestealer Cults around. The hardest part is going to be keeping the Black Knights alive, especially if facing Dark Reapers (who don't care about Darkshrouds). I also have the Guard stuff for objective holding and extra Command Points.

I am thinking to change 10 Black Knights to 6 Plasma Inceptors. Then you have 26 points to give Bikers 2 plasma guns.

Orkinstein wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
My new list is the following:
Battalion: Dark Angels
Sammael in Sableclaw
Ravenwing Talonmaster
3x 5 Scouts
10 Ravenwing Black Knights
2x Ravenwing Dark Talon
Outrider: Dark Angels
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Ravenwing Darkshroud
2x 3 Ravenwing Bikers: Storm Bolter on Sgts.
Battalion: Astra Militarum
2x Company Commander: Boltgun
3x Infantry Squad
Both DA detachments will get the Ravenwing Attack Squadron treatment, and the two Talonmasters will each get one of the relic swords. I feel like this scratches the mobile itch really well and can mulch hordes hard, which is good in a meta with Orks and Genestealer Cults around. The hardest part is going to be keeping the Black Knights alive, especially if facing Dark Reapers (who don't care about Darkshrouds). I also have the Guard stuff for objective holding and extra Command Points.

I am thinking to change 10 Black Knights to 6 Plasma Inceptors. Then you have 26 points to give Bikers 2 plasma guns.

I thought about that, but Inceptors don't have the Ravenwing keyword and so can't use the Attack Squadron benefits.

My nine-man Black Knight squad in an Attack Squadron detachment with Sammael and the Talonmaster has done some truly heavy lifting. It can also come apart against certain foes, but at least it has mobility and can work around -1 to hit debuffs.

That's part of why I concocted the list I posted: mobility. I like the Azrael gunline but mobility is a fatal weakness of that list. Sure, you can add a few bikes to give it some mobile elements but it's still ultimately a gunline. Granted, you should always be moving the Hellblaster blob around; never stand still. But it's still going to get beaten by a list that is good at playing the objectives. My biggest concern with the Black Knights is that D2 weapons will just wipe them off the table with little effort. I'm thinking I'll just have to learn to play around that weakness.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
That's part of why I concocted the list I posted: mobility. I like the Azrael gunline but mobility is a fatal weakness of that list. Sure, you can add a few bikes to give it some mobile elements but it's still ultimately a gunline. Granted, you should always be moving the Hellblaster blob around; never stand still. But it's still going to get beaten by a list that is good at playing the objectives. My biggest concern with the Black Knights is that D2 weapons will just wipe them off the table with little effort. I'm thinking I'll just have to learn to play around that weakness.

In my last six-round tournament there was one game where the Black Knights fell apart without getting much done - vs Orks with massed Lootas. Otherwise they were my heavy-lifters. Dark Reapers have also caused problems. Both those threats will also shred Hellblasters. I have enjoyed a list with Azreal and a Hellblasters plus Sammael and Black Knights. The Black Knights can start under the Azrael bubble in case I go second, relying on Jink/Speed of the Raven after that.

I really like your dual Talon Master list! Three twin Assault Cannons/Twin Heavy Bolters behind screening units can cause a lot of damage!

Hello, I am not a dark angels player, but I am a long time space marines player. I mostly play primaris infantry and forgeworld vehicles these days. (Once I started buying primaris infantry I just had a hard time aesthetically mixing them with classic marines besides scouts). With dark angels being the best chapter for plasma, has anyone had consistently good experiences with the plasma inceptors with the weapons from the dark age strat? My army already often frequently uses scouts and a librarian, so I'm thinking about just tagging the librarian and one of the scout squads as dark angels so I can have a dark angels patrol and bring a dark angels inceptor squad along as a point and click medium tank deletion unit. Math hammer says a dark angels 3 man plasma inceptor team overcharging with the strat should average above 12 wounds on a standard t7 3+ save target. I'm just wondering if in actual experience they accomplish this task more often than not and if its worth it.

rooster92 wrote:
Hello, I am not a dark angels player, but I am a long time space marines player. I mostly play primaris infantry and forgeworld vehicles these days. (Once I started buying primaris infantry I just had a hard time aesthetically mixing them with classic marines besides scouts). With dark angels being the best chapter for plasma, has anyone had consistently good experiences with the plasma inceptors with the weapons from the dark age strat? My army already often frequently uses scouts and a librarian, so I'm thinking about just tagging the librarian and one of the scout squads as dark angels so I can have a dark angels patrol and bring a dark angels inceptor squad along as a point and click medium tank deletion unit. Math hammer says a dark angels 3 man plasma inceptor team overcharging with the strat should average above 12 wounds on a standard t7 3+ save target. I'm just wondering if in actual experience they accomplish this task more often than not and if its worth it.

Inceptors with plasma are powerful, but fragile for their points. If they can get a source of rerolls (dropping near Azrael or at least a Master and preferably a Lieutenant) they will do some good work, but their damage output can be very swingy since they get 2d3 shots per model (meaning you could roll low on number of shots and end up not doing much). Don't expect them to last long after the drop, as they will be a priority target. If you really want to use Weapons from the Dark Age, a unit of Hellblasters is probably better, as they don't cost as much per model and you can get more models and more consistent damage output. There's a reason one of the more popular Dark Angels list builds involves Hellblasters around Azrael and a Lieutenant or Talonmaster. One other thing to think about with our plasma: larger units are more efficient for WotDA.

Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

I'm guessing that the adepticon missions favoring tough units that can sit on objectives exacerbated the problems already present in our codex, as we lack both the ability to kill tough units, or our own tough units to contest objectives.

Do you have a link to the full results?

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

Yeah I wasn't impressed by the lists I saw for Dark Angels. Makes me wish I had gone because I might have been able to do better. Then again, the competition at Adepticon is pretty fierce, so I might have gotten my face pushed in as well.

abyrn wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

I'm guessing that the adepticon missions favoring tough units that can sit on objectives exacerbated the problems already present in our codex, as we lack both the ability to kill tough units, or our own tough units to contest objectives.

Do you have a link to the full results?

The results are on best coast pairings I've not seen them anywhere else tbh not much to see best dark Angels list had 2 wins I think. Like I say very poor showing

Oldman Lee wrote:

abyrn wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

I'm guessing that the adepticon missions favoring tough units that can sit on objectives exacerbated the problems already present in our codex, as we lack both the ability to kill tough units, or our own tough units to contest objectives.

Do you have a link to the full results?

The results are on best coast pairings I've not seen them anywhere else tbh not much to see best dark Angels list had 2 wins I think. Like I say very poor showing

Thanks, I am still a bit curious to see what the DA lists were but I don't know where to find them.

abyrn wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:

abyrn wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

I'm guessing that the adepticon missions favoring tough units that can sit on objectives exacerbated the problems already present in our codex, as we lack both the ability to kill tough units, or our own tough units to contest objectives.

Do you have a link to the full results?

The results are on best coast pairings I've not seen them anywhere else tbh not much to see best dark Angels list had 2 wins I think. Like I say very poor showing

Thanks, I am still a bit curious to see what the DA lists were but I don't know where to find them.

Best coast pairings there not much to see

Oldman Lee wrote:

abyrn wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:
Just had a browse through the adeptacon results not a good showing by are codex

I'm guessing that the adepticon missions favoring tough units that can sit on objectives exacerbated the problems already present in our codex, as we lack both the ability to kill tough units, or our own tough units to contest objectives.

Do you have a link to the full results?

The results are on best coast pairings I've not seen them anywhere else tbh not much to see best dark Angels list had 2 wins I think. Like I say very poor showing

damn, that's sad

 ZergSmasher wrote:
My new list is the following:
Battalion: Dark Angels
Sammael in Sableclaw
Ravenwing Talonmaster
3x 5 Scouts
10 Ravenwing Black Knights
2x Ravenwing Dark Talon
Outrider: Dark Angels
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Ravenwing Darkshroud
2x 3 Ravenwing Bikers: Storm Bolter on Sgts.
Battalion: Astra Militarum
2x Company Commander: Boltgun
3x Infantry Squad
Both DA detachments will get the Ravenwing Attack Squadron treatment, and the two Talonmasters will each get one of the relic swords. I feel like this scratches the mobile itch really well and can mulch hordes hard, which is good in a meta with Orks and Genestealer Cults around. The hardest part is going to be keeping the Black Knights alive, especially if facing Dark Reapers (who don't care about Darkshrouds). I also have the Guard stuff for objective holding and extra Command Points.

Pretty much the exact same list i've been running except all my Ravenwing are in one Battalion (2 TMs, Sammael on Sableclaw, 3x5 bolter scouts, 8 Black Knights, 8 bikers w/3x plasma, Darkshroud, and 2 Dark Talons). And of course the loyal 32 Battalion for CP and screens.

I've played against soup lists and wrecked knights pretty easily, even going second. Hordes are fantastic to deal with given the extra bodies from the guard to screen and you pretty much stay as far away and throw 160+ shots a turn at them. My favorite part is making one company commander the warlord. I get to sit them in a corner, out of LOS (preferably) and just collect CP. This makes me so much more willing to risk a talonmaster to snipe a character in close combat or just jump out with the vigilus strat. I haven't played against any eldar yet, but i'm sure it's going to be an uphill battle as those games always are.

I'll likely be taking this list to a local ITC event in a few weeks to see how it really does.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
My new list is the following:
Battalion: Dark Angels
Sammael in Sableclaw
Ravenwing Talonmaster
3x 5 Scouts
10 Ravenwing Black Knights
2x Ravenwing Dark Talon
Outrider: Dark Angels
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Ravenwing Darkshroud
2x 3 Ravenwing Bikers: Storm Bolter on Sgts.
Battalion: Astra Militarum
2x Company Commander: Boltgun
3x Infantry Squad
Both DA detachments will get the Ravenwing Attack Squadron treatment, and the two Talonmasters will each get one of the relic swords. I feel like this scratches the mobile itch really well and can mulch hordes hard, which is good in a meta with Orks and Genestealer Cults around. The hardest part is going to be keeping the Black Knights alive, especially if facing Dark Reapers (who don't care about Darkshrouds). I also have the Guard stuff for objective holding and extra Command Points.

I have tried running a similar list with 10 black knights... If you are going second its very likely they will all die and you wont have anything left to deal with tanks unless dark talons shoot really well