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2019/05/02 13:50:28
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Just curious has anyone used a dark angels “smash captain” - master with jump pack thunder hammer and storm shield?
Obviously it won’t be anywhere near as good as the blood Angels version but I’m kind of thinking about working on a deep striking melee unit that can do some damage. Thinking death wing knights at the core and then a character or two to support. May also work in a deep striking assassin that has a better chance of getting in (eversor or callous).
2019/05/02 14:35:43
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Without all of the strats (3d6 charge is a big one along with being able to charge t1), the relic (no overwatch and being able to re-roll that 3d6 charge) the extra attacks (1+d3) and the +1 to wound the DA captain is about half as effective as the BA smash captain. About 30% the expected wounds once you factor in being able to fight twice.
All that being said trying to get a charge out of DS without bonuses to charge distance and a re-roll is a fools errand. Looking at round 50% change with only re-rolls (native and a CP). Have a significant chunk of your army unable to do anything until turn 3 at best (if they fail a charge roll) is a pretty good way to get tabled.
I haven't found a way to make deepstriking marine H2H troops work. Maybe if you included one of the shadowspear units with the warlord trait of +1 to advance/charge but then you miss out on charge re-rolls which probably puts your chances of making a 9" charge with only a +1 and a CP at around 40% (didn't do the math but it has to be under 50).
2019/05/02 15:43:17
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
That has been my experience thus far with DW knights or really anything DS without improving the charge. You mostly fail and then get shot off the board. Even with Master of Maneuvere trait still wiff hard on making that charge.
It’s a shame because I’d love to use some DS melee with my dark angels.
Your best option is Deathwing Knights dropping in with terminator master (could use JP dude, but like the idea of terminator better) with SS and powersword (upgraded to heavenfall blade) and give him Master of Maneuver trait. Reroll charges is your best bet for a DA deep striker unfortunately.
Other armies just do it better, so it's only worth it if you plan to take the Deathwing Knights which other lists don't get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 17:40:59
Regarding the DA Smash Captain, I can say that I have tried the same with Black Templars. Their innate reroll of failed charges, combined with Gulliman who gives +1 to Advance/Charge (like the Phobos WT mentioned), I still wasn't very happy with their success rate when coming in from deep strike. However, starting them on the board T1 and advancing them from behind LOS-blocking terrain and sneaking through to bust heavy targets has worked Ok at times (though I hate to admit that, last game I tried this, they were tarpitted by Poxwalkers and never made much headway against my opponents Plagueburst Crawlers). Obviously not as powerful as a BA smash captain, but I run 2x BT Smash Captains and 3x5 Scouts in my Deathwatch army sometimes for cheap CP, a DtW Strat, and a little bit of smashiness.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/02 21:37:51
I main Chaos and picked up Dark Vengeance for the CSM stuff. My best friend does Space Wolves and I’m looking at my DVDA’s and trying to work out a list I could use to do 4K doubles with her and use the Lion & Wolf. Not looking to minimax but we’d like to have capable lists. I like DWK & the Power fist IChap and want to include them in to the collection*. This is the army plan I’ve drafted, arranged in a Battalion, Vanguard, and Spearhead, 6pts short of 2K:
General plan:
Devastators castle up around the lieutenant, Apothecary, and ancient, and blaze away; Scouts anchor their flanks.
Knights deploy in Land Raider with Master & Fist Chaplain (who does Lion & Wolf), deploying with Darkshroud; Advance T1, T2 disembark, flame, and hit things.
Other Chaplain moves up to midfield with Librarian and Tactical Squad.
Bikers rush forwards and cause trouble T1.
Deathwing teleport where they're needed.
Might juggle points to give the Master a Jump Pack and join the Terminators? Might be tricky to make it look right with his pose, but feels like he’d have better synergy with them - and it’d open up Priority Orders in Maelstrom. I feel like I’m overdoing the Chaplains - but they’re such cool models.
*they’re already in the pile of shame
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 03:29:38
How often do you jink with black Knights? I've been trying to run two squads of 5. It works better for using LOS blocking cover but I'm finding that they die quickly because only one can use speed of the Raven.
Maybe jinking and suffering the -1 will cause less casualties than not having 4++?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding the smash Captain, I think we better off playing to our strengths. So our version isn't the same. I'm building a model with Combi Melta and thunder hammer. Plus the shroud relic. The -1 to be hit should make up for only having 4++ and the Combi Melta with huntsman makes up a bit for the attacks we don't get. I think he'll work best as a counter punch. Not deep striking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 14:02:15
2019/05/06 14:21:19
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Timur wrote: Thats a nice caste for a fun play, but unfortunatelly terminators are not competetive.
If landraider dies too early they will never reach close combat
Plan is to survive losing T1 by popping prepared positions for a 1+ save alongside the -1 to be hit, our shared list will probably include a Spartan or a Knight so hopefully I’ll not be the highest priority target
I took an experimental list last weekend to see if the Deathwing can cut it. It was based around a Ravenwing Attack Squadron core with a Deathwing Vanguard. Sammael and a Talonmaster led six Black Knights, a five-man Ravenwing Bike Squadron, a Darkshroud, a Scout Squad, two Tactical Squads and a Devastator Squad with Plasma Cannons. The Deathwing had Belial, a Librarian in Terminator Armour, five Deathwing Knights, a five-man Deathwing Terminator Squad and a Ravenwing Champion (that last part doesn't fit so much, but go with it).
I faced a Red Corsairs list that included two Leviathan Dreadnoughts accompanied by a Supreme Command Detachment with Ahriman and two Tzeentch Demon Princes. We played Beachhead.
The Ravenwing Black Knight took down both Leviathans before dying. Jink plus the Dark Shroud kept them alive long enough to put out the pain, benefiting from Sammael and Talonmaster plus the Ravenwing Attack Squadron strat for extra killiness. The Deathwing Knights took down both Demon Princes, assisted by a rerolled charge from deep strike and a perils-induced Righteous Repugnance. The Deathwing and Belial, though fared much more poorly. They died for little return. The Dark Angels prevailed, though, with Ahriman beating a retreat. The Ravenwing Champion with the Eye of the Unseen took down Huorn.
I keep coming back to Sammael, the Talonmaster and Ravenwing Black Knights. I'm looking at using bare-bones Landspeeders as a screen for the Black Knights. Deathwing Knights can be useful as they can kill anything if they get there. The standard Deathwing Terminators, though, are still sub-par.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/07 03:10:33
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2019/05/07 11:26:25
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
I had a squad of regular Deathwing Terminators charge a Great Unclean One and knock off 12 wounds. Azrael was in bubble range and that helped.
It really depends on what you are using them for. I let my opponent charge my Hellblasters and after the big nasty got tied up with them the Termies wrecked him.
2019/05/08 08:54:17
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
turmoil wrote: Just curious has anyone used a dark angels “smash captain” - master with jump pack thunder hammer and storm shield?
Obviously it won’t be anywhere near as good as the blood Angels version but I’m kind of thinking about working on a deep striking melee unit that can do some damage. Thinking death wing knights at the core and then a character or two to support. May also work in a deep striking assassin that has a better chance of getting in (eversor or callous).
I’ve modelled up a cheapo version with the Relic mace and a combi-Plasma. He’s pretty annoying! He gets a 4++ from Iron Halo anyway. Tend to use him with a Lieutenant with Storm Bolter and power sword. They hide behind things til needed providing buffs, then pop forward when required. Or they drop in next to my Termite full of combi-weapon-toting Veterans. That’s a fun party.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 08:54:39
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2019/05/09 15:07:57
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Has anyone had luck running a mechanized list that uses Darkshrouds to help the tanks stay alive? Maybe a Techmarine to repair the big ones, especially Land Raiders.
2019/05/09 21:05:52
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Reivax26 wrote: Has anyone had luck running a mechanized list that uses Darkshrouds to help the tanks stay alive? Maybe a Techmarine to repair the big ones, especially Land Raiders.
I do think Dark Angel Land Raiders are the best Land Raiders, just because of the Fall Back and shoot stratagem. Intractable?
Don't think techmarines are worth it unless you're filling a cheap hq slot. Might be fun on a bike?
Reivax26 wrote: Has anyone had luck running a mechanized list that uses Darkshrouds to help the tanks stay alive? Maybe a Techmarine to repair the big ones, especially Land Raiders.
I do think Dark Angel Land Raiders are the best Land Raiders, just because of the Fall Back and shoot stratagem. Intractable?
Don't think techmarines are worth it unless you're filling a cheap hq slot. Might be fun on a bike?
Yeah, Intractable and a Darkshroud were what led me to put a LR in my planned collection. I main CSM and wish I had an aura and strat like these to play with!
Make no mistake though; Land Raiders are still cabbage. Could perhaps find a niche role in a gimmick parking lot list, but honestly I think we need to stick to things like Talonmasters, Dark Talons, and stuff with plasma, playing to the unique strengths of Dark Angels. Most competitive lists will have the tools necessary to deal with an Imperial Knight, meaning those same tools will make quick work of a Land Raider. It'll never get a chance to fall back and shoot. Just because Castellans are (probably mostly) gone doesn't mean it's suddenly safe for big expensive vehicles to take the field. Now, in a less competitive environment like a casual fluffy game go crazy; Land Raiders are always cool to see. I wish they were more competitive as it would give me an incentive to finish painting my Deathwing one.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2019/05/10 04:09:31
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
This time around I think I am going to focus more on the fun aspect of the game and not worry about tournaments really. I did all that for so long the last time I was playing the game that it made me start to hate the game. I realize now that it was the extremely toxic gaming environment that I was in at the time that caused it but that doesn't change the fact that it did.
I had to take a 7 year break from this game because of it and now that I am back playing and painting again I don't think I am going to let whether or not the list is "optimized" effect what I put in it.
I want to see some cool models do cool stuff in game. To be honest I don't even care if I win, as long as its a good fun game for both people. I'm not even going to let the local angry nerd on a power trip playing multiple Knights in a soup list get me down.
2019/05/10 08:37:35
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
Yeah, Intractable and a Darkshroud were what led me to put a LR in my planned collection. I main CSM and wish I had an aura and strat like these to play with!
Techmarine on Bike with Storm Bolter costs less than 80p, fires 8 bolter shots all the time (at BS2+!), moves 14" and fixes up vehicles. Oh, and he has a short-ranged plasma and a flamer! And, if you don't mind the points, even a freakin' power axe!
Having one alongside the Land Speeders for Ravenwing detach is nice.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/10 08:38:39
After completely ignoring him since beginning of 8th, I'm starting to be quite happy with my Captain with Jump Pack and Relic Blade (the equipment, not the relic. One of the hidden gems in our codex in my opinion).
It's not a top class heavy hitter in CC, but almost nothing in our codex is.
Instead, either with a stormbolter or a combiplasma, it's a small threat on the table but it's incredibly versatile: useful to provide reroll when you have to move your heavy weapons, may defend a bit against charges, can push away enemy deepstrikers, control objective for a turn before being shoot off the table and, more important than all, in the final rounds of a game may clear damaged units of chaff on objective (this is why a prefer a storm bolter - has the potential for 4 wound in shooting and 4 in CC).
Of course, you have to start on the table and plan you positioning in advance.
With the 20 point saved from a SS/TH configuration you can field another heavy weapon.
If you want to go full DA smash captain I believe the best configuration is an Astartes mixed regiment with SW, use the stratagem for the bonus, gives him Master of Manoeuvres (or, even better, start on the table and give it Strengh of the Lion), use the Eye of the Unseen and enjoy your 5A at 2+ with S10/11 attacking before any other character, attack again for 3CP and then attack again when he inevitably die for 2 CP).
But, really, use the Eye of Unseen whenever needed. It really messes up with elite enemy characters, it only requires to be around, and gives all your other unit priority. It's extremely more powerful that Swift Strike and similar abilities, even if it works only against a characters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/10 10:46:45
I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it.
Company Commander Relic: Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander
Infantry Squad Lascannon
Infantry Squad Lascannon
Infantry Squad Lascannon
Heavy Weapons Squad Mortar
Heavy Weapons Squad Mortar
Heavy Weapons Squad Mortar
Operative Requisition Sanctioned [85pts, -1CP]
++ Total: [83 PL, 11CP, 1,499pts] ++
I expect to see lord of wars like knights (even Castellan) and (Chaos) Primarchs. So I don't want any expensive unit directly deployed on the table. Instead, I separate heavy/special weapons among a lot small cheap units. Like heavy bolt and missile launcher scout for mortal wounds.
But I keep a plasma inceptor squad and a lascannon long fangs in reserve for heavy hitting on turn 2. Lieutenant and Master go with plasma inceptor make them 2+ to hit reroll 1 for hit and wound without worry about getting hot. On average, this inceptor squad can deal 17 wounds on a 4++ Castellan Kinght. Use Cunning of the Wolf to keep lascannon long fangs in reserve. They also have build in reroll 1 to hit and stratagems like Keen Senses (no penalties to hit) The Wolf's Eye (re-roll all failed hit rolls or all failed wound rolls). With the helps from the rest army, it is possible to kill a Castellan on turn 2.
The Lion and the Wolf makes master and wolf lord deal 5 S10 thunder hammer hitting on 2+ reroll one. The Eye of the Unseen make master even dangerous for enemy characters. After new FAQ, I hope they are good at hunting things like tank commanders.
Left 85 pts for Operative Requisition Sanctioned. Summon different assassin will give more flexibility.
One thing I am considering is psychic power. It is quite hard to squeeze some points for adding psyker. It is also shame that I cannot use that 4 minus 1 to hit psychic powers form DA and SW. I hope assassin can give me some help here. Talismanic Shield (Character can now deny one power) form SW may also useful.
Any thoughts? Comments and suggestions are welcome! Thanks!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/14 21:43:41
Dark Talon is far, far better. Nephilim is kind of crap.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2019/05/16 08:50:59
Subject: Dark Angels Tactics 2018 - Chapter Approved page 41
I've done a tonne of research and I have modified my list about 3 times so its very streamlined.
I was thinking with azrael and zakariah and hellblasters with two flanks of bikes with shrouds and a dark talon buzzing around this may be a viable TAC list. What do you guys think?
2000 PTS
@Detachments [ 2 ]
Ravenwing (Outrider detachment)
@HQ [ 2 ]
Ravenwing Talonmaster (188pt.) Power sword; Twin assault cannon; Twin heavy bolter;
Sammael in Sableclaw (216pt.) Raven Sword; Twin assault cannon; Twin heavy bolter;
It seems stretched real think with very few real hard hitters. 2 darkshrouds seems too much (276pts for support only, no offensive output). i would probably reduce the Ravenwing and use a refused flank instead of trying to secure both. Consolidate the bikes, drop a shroud, and put the points elsewhere.
bullyboy wrote: It seems stretched real think with very few real hard hitters. 2 darkshrouds seems too much (276pts for support only, no offensive output). i would probably reduce the Ravenwing and use a refused flank instead of trying to secure both. Consolidate the bikes, drop a shroud, and put the points elsewhere.
That makes sense. I was worried about the inability to hit heavy items like tanks/valkyries that sort of thing which is what the hellblasters and the knights were for.
I realise my scouts are just flanks and objective holders, and I really need some CC. Would Deathwing knights be a good choice?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Army of Dark Angels (1995/Unlimited pt.)
I dropped a bike squad and shroud, and then added deathwing knights and an ancient for the rerolls. The only other thing I can think of is to drop a scout squad and the regular bikers and add belial or a venerable dreadnought with twin lascannons and a missile launcher, or assault cannon and heavy flamer if I want them to help with my knights. This a good revision?
@Detachments [ 2 ]
Ravenwing (Outrider detachment)
@HQ [ 2 ]
Ravenwing Talonmaster (188pt.) Power sword; Twin assault cannon; Twin heavy bolter;
Sammael in Sableclaw (216pt.) Raven Sword; Twin assault cannon; Twin heavy bolter;
I've run similar lists (Outrider with the Speeder guys + an Azrael castle) and to be honest it was very hard to get it to work for competitive play. Just not enough bodies, lots of points tied up in Characters (~600 with Az, Sam and TM), and Bikes can die pretty easily.
Adding in the DW Knights just dilutes it further - as in 3 Black Knights won't do much unfortunately!
I think you need to re-assess what you want to focus on for a list and build around it with redundancies. So do the Az castle but with more Hellblasters + ancient + apothecary. Or go heavier on the Ravenwing with more Black Knights (6 man squads) and at least 2 Dark Talons and the speeder characters.
But definitely play some games with your lists and see what units are liking - then focus the list around those.
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
