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I really hope the injustice of the codex boys keeping all of their new toys/rules wakes the Lion from his slumber because without him DA are fighting with GK for worst army in the edition...

bananathug wrote:
I really hope the injustice of the codex boys keeping all of their new toys/rules wakes the Lion from his slumber because without him DA are fighting with GK for worst army in the edition...

I'm really not sure its all that bad. While we are not getting combat doctrines, we ARE getting access to shock assault (which frankly will make DW Knights even more ridiculous than they already are and assault marines MAYBE playable GASP!!! even standard DW termies will get to deepstrike, shoot, and have possible charge with extra attacks) and the new units (we won`t even have to buy the codex for the datasheets!)

Personally, I'm really happy with what they have done because going non-codex compliant is now really a hard choice, as opposed to the days of "see these XXXX chapter marines? they are actually deathwatch" Ps, Ive seen some funny reactions from deathwatch players about this despite the fact thay have been the best marine dex for quite some time.

On the actual units, anyone else think that Las-fusil eliminators will be great with our chapter tactic?

Ive been a solidly old school DA player since second ed, but this has for the first time got me considering adding some primaris guys to my army ( I dont even have any hellblasters yet, still running around with plas devs.)

princeyg wrote:

bananathug wrote:
I really hope the injustice of the codex boys keeping all of their new toys/rules wakes the Lion from his slumber because without him DA are fighting with GK for worst army in the edition...

I'm really not sure its all that bad. While we are not getting combat doctrines, we ARE getting access to shock assault (which frankly will make DW Knights even more ridiculous than they already are and assault marines MAYBE playable GASP!!! even standard DW termies will get to deepstrike, shoot, and have possible charge with extra attacks) and the new units (we won`t even have to buy the codex for the datasheets!)

Personally, I'm really happy with what they have done because going non-codex compliant is now really a hard choice, as opposed to the days of "see these XXXX chapter marines? they are actually deathwatch" Ps, Ive seen some funny reactions from deathwatch players about this despite the fact thay have been the best marine dex for quite some time.

On the actual units, anyone else think that Las-fusil eliminators will be great with our chapter tactic?

Ive been a solidly old school DA player since second ed, but this has for the first time got me considering adding some primaris guys to my army ( I dont even have any hellblasters yet, still running around with plas devs.)

The problem is, we are still stuck paying Codex: Space Marine points for non-codex rules. Looking at the new rules, I doubt that there will be very many point changes in the book, as now all bolters have ap -1 starting on turn 2 if you want it. There is some good stuff coming for DA, but I don't think it's enough to help get us out of the bottom tier. I don't see how we will be able to stack up against codex Marines once this drops.

Las-fusils do look really good though.

Yeah I see what you are saying, maybe I'm just a born optimist (not really Dark angel-y that though)

As i like the idea of adding a small number of primaris, Im looking at maybe a spearhead detachment of azrael, 2 units of eliminators and a 5 man hellblaster squad with one of those new fandangled flying transports. Dunno if it will be any good, but i like the idea of Azrael segregating the new guys into units that'll be far from any suspiciously black armoured chaos marines or his own bodyguard where he can keep an eye on them. No idea what thatll be in points mind.

It could be that we will be second-class for a while until they redo the whole DA Codex. At least we get some new toys.

I am intrigued by the Impulser hover-transport. I haven't seen the whole datasheet, but it looks like it will have the Assault Vehicle rule allowing the squad inside to disembark after the vehicle moves. The squad that disembarks cannot assault that turn, but this could be handy with Hellblasters and Aggressors. Both tend to get shot off the board in turn 1 these days unless in an Azrael bubble. Now, they gain some survivability as well as getting upfield and shooting in the same turn. Hellblasters could possibly get inside Rapid Fire range while the Aggressors could at least get into range (maybe there's a point to the Flamestorm Aggressors now?). We'll see what the transport capacity is - we'll probably want a Primaris Master in with them. Edit - just found a preview - looks like Transport Capacity 6 so not so great...We'll also have to see what the points cost is. At least it has a light weapons loadout so hopefully its not too expensive...

Lasfusils look good with Grim Resolve. Not sure about the points vs Lascannons etc but they look interesting.

Has anyone ever tried company vets with plasma and Azrael in a drop pod? Land, throw a bunch of Plasma. Then if they get charged the Vets turn into extra wounds for Azrael because on a 2+ they jump in front of him.

princeyg wrote:
Yeah I see what you are saying, maybe I'm just a born optimist (not really Dark angel-y that though)

As i like the idea of adding a small number of primaris, Im looking at maybe a spearhead detachment of azrael, 2 units of eliminators and a 5 man hellblaster squad with one of those new fandangled flying transports. Dunno if it will be any good, but i like the idea of Azrael segregating the new guys into units that'll be far from any suspiciously black armoured chaos marines or his own bodyguard where he can keep an eye on them. No idea what thatll be in points mind.

I'm trying to be optimistic if only for my own health haha. I really do think the new transport will be good for Hellblasters, as well as for Aggressors, and I'm very excited for Eliminators.. but I am being cautious because I don't want to set my expectations too high.

I like your idea, but the only issue is that under the current rules Azrael cannot ride the Primaris transport... he is too short for that ride.

abyrn wrote:

princeyg wrote:
Yeah I see what you are saying, maybe I'm just a born optimist (not really Dark angel-y that though)

As i like the idea of adding a small number of primaris, Im looking at maybe a spearhead detachment of azrael, 2 units of eliminators and a 5 man hellblaster squad with one of those new fandangled flying transports. Dunno if it will be any good, but i like the idea of Azrael segregating the new guys into units that'll be far from any suspiciously black armoured chaos marines or his own bodyguard where he can keep an eye on them. No idea what thatll be in points mind.

I'm trying to be optimistic if only for my own health haha. I really do think the new transport will be good for Hellblasters, as well as for Aggressors, and I'm very excited for Eliminators.. but I am being cautious because I don't want to set my expectations too high.

I like your idea, but the only issue is that under the current rules Azrael cannot ride the Primaris transport... he is too short for that ride.

Oh "£$% forgot bout the silly transport restrictions...........werrlll maybe in a few months or so he`ll magically get bigger like some of the others....

Maybe we'll get a Primaris Azrael just like how Smurfs got Calgar and Tiggy and White Scars got Korsarro Khan. Not sure how they'll justify that in the fluff, but I'm sure they'll think of something.

As for the new units, I'm wondering if 3 of the new Dread-walker-thingys infiltrating up could be a nasty turn 1 surprise. Doesn't really play to Dark Angels' strengths per se, but could take pressure off of Black Knights/Hellblasters that are trying to get in range.

The new DA legion dreadnought is on (pre?)sale today... Which contemptor dreadnought loadout do you all think works best for DA?

I'm thinking C-beams of twin Lascannons, but I'm unsure of what's good on them.

abyrn wrote:
The new DA legion dreadnought is on (pre?)sale today... Which contemptor dreadnought loadout do you all think works best for DA?

I'm thinking C-beams of twin Lascannons, but I'm unsure of what's good on them.

2x Twin Lascannon Contemptor-Mortis. 170p-ish points of pure anti-tank murder.

 Vector Strike wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The new DA legion dreadnought is on (pre?)sale today... Which contemptor dreadnought loadout do you all think works best for DA?

I'm thinking C-beams of twin Lascannons, but I'm unsure of what's good on them.

2x Twin Lascannon Contemptor-Mortis. 170p-ish points of pure anti-tank murder.

Yep, mines a relic contemptor dreadnought, “Old Fenric the Strong” deletes 2-3 heavy units per game

[img][img]

Here's a complete review of the new SM codex. It seems our Reivers will do quite the work!





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Things that might affect us (taken from the video):

- Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment isn't affected by Chapter Tactics
- Grav weapons got big discounts in price (Grav Cannons by 8p)
- Tactical Marines now are 12p base
- Drop Pods can come down turn 1 (Centurions can't go in)
- Librarians went down 8p (Primaris Libs also went down)
- Suppressors didn't get new guns and only 3 guys/squad
- Eliminators are still only 3 per squad; a unit with las-fusils will cost 99p (las-fusil is 15p)
- Chaplains now have Litanies; they know Linaty of Hate (their old re-roll melee hits rule) and 1 from a list. They have to roll a die to make it work; on a 3+, it goes off. Can't try to recite the same litany another Chaplain has recited. They have to do it at the start of the battle ROUND.
- Intercessor Sergeant can take a thunder hammer
- Infiltrators don't need 10 guys to get a Helix Adept or the new Comms guy
- Incursors are Troops and are 19p/model (haywire mine is 10p)
- Chapter Ancient isn't on the base codex anymore (moved to the Ultra supplement)
- Combat Shield is only 1p
- New model: Ancient in Terminator Armour
- Vanguard Veterans -1p
- Sternguard Veterans' SIA is now free
- (Ironclad) Dreadnought -10p, DCCW -10p
- Invictor Warsuit: 90p base, 120-130p filled
- Reivers: -2p. Reivers' Terror Troops rule now stacks up to 3 Reivers within 3" of an enemy unit
- Aggressors: +1A
- Assault Marines -1p
- Land Speeders are 45p base
- Armorium Cherub isn't interactive anymore
- Land Raider godwyn went down 20p
- Rhino down 5p
- Land Speeder Storm is cheaper
- Drop Pods can come turn 1
- Repulsor +30p
- Impulsor: 75p base, 18p shield 4++

Hmm. Reivers stacking could make for interesting doubles shenanigans with Night Lords Nurgle Raptors. Potential -8Ld

Good news: In a vacuum we are now stronger than we were before the SM codex dropped, We get Shock Assault, cheaper Grav, drop pods turn 1, etc, etc.
Bad news: without combat doctrines, we are totally outclassed by vanilla marines.
Other news: we have no clue when we will be fully updated and what the heck is with the September WD?

I think we'll get combat doctrines

You probably won't get combat doctrines, as they are for Codex Chapters, but you'll probably get something else cool to reflect the tri wing nature of the Chapter.

Alternatively, if you use a lot of units that overlap, both halves of the Dark Angels 'chapter tactic' are pretty much in the Codex, and you could always play a green successor to UM or WS.

The Lion heard you say that we could use our Dark Angels as successors to the Ultramarines.

He is not pleased.

 Reivax26 wrote:
The Lion heard you say that we could use our Dark Angels as successors to the Ultramarines.

He is not pleased.

Well, he did March with Macragge for a few years there, so I'm sure some boys in green learned a thing or two.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You probably won't get combat doctrines, as they are for Codex Chapters, but you'll probably get something else cool to reflect the tri wing nature of the Chapter.

Alternatively, if you use a lot of units that overlap, both halves of the Dark Angels 'chapter tactic' are pretty much in the Codex, and you could always play a green successor to UM or WS.

Which tactics are those? I play a DA successor anyway and most of my lists are mostly primaris so no huge loss apart from my Azzy and DarkShroud.

There's a Successor Tactic that lets you reroll ones for bolt weapons (so a slight change, but I don't think you have to stand still) and one that limits it to one runner from morale.

 axisofentropy wrote:
I think we'll get combat doctrines

Doctrines appear to be for all Astartes. Whether DA will get a super-doctrine (ala WS super punches or UM "I didnt move officer, honest") is another question.

Sterling191 wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
I think we'll get combat doctrines

Doctrines appear to be for all Astartes. Whether DA will get a super-doctrine (ala WS super punches or UM "I didnt move officer, honest") is another question.

GW confirmed on Facebook that only codex compliant chapters get doctrines. I'm not at home or I'd post the screencap I grabbed, I'll try to remember to attach it when I get home.

I really hope that the September White Dwarf helps us because if it doesn't I think we might be dead in the water.

On the bright side I guess I can focus more on terrain building while I wait on our army to matter again.

 Reivax26 wrote:
I really hope that the September White Dwarf helps us because if it doesn't I think we might be dead in the water.

On the bright side I guess I can focus more on terrain building while I wait on our army to matter again.

I agree. My first army was Dark Angels. I'd love to expand on them if they were competitive at all but I'm not a good enough player to pull off wins with a not so great army. I have a bunch of unpainted space marine stuff and it just might be time to start painting them as a new chapter.

If the September White Dwarf does bring in some cool stuff maybe I'll stick with DA but I kind of feel like we'd need DA codex v2 before there is any hope.

I'm pretty new to the hobby but it seems to me like all the non-codex chapters have been kind of left out.

Slaul wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
I really hope that the September White Dwarf helps us because if it doesn't I think we might be dead in the water.

On the bright side I guess I can focus more on terrain building while I wait on our army to matter again.

I agree. My first army was Dark Angels. I'd love to expand on them if they were competitive at all but I'm not a good enough player to pull off wins with a not so great army. I have a bunch of unpainted space marine stuff and it just might be time to start painting them as a new chapter.

If the September White Dwarf does bring in some cool stuff maybe I'll stick with DA but I kind of feel like we'd need DA codex v2 before there is any hope.

I'm pretty new to the hobby but it seems to me like all the non-codex chapters have been kind of left out.

I'm in very much the same boat. Fortunately I have other armies that I can run while I wait for DA to stop languishing at the bottom. I, too, lack the skill to win 40k on hard mode (hell, I struggle to get wins even when I use my Tau, one of the better armies in the game currently). I'm definitely not going to completely give up on DA though, as I love the fluff and the look of the models. I'll probably pick up three of the new Invictor Warsuits for my army, although possibly not all at once as I don't know if I can afford that right now.

Ahh it sounds like the good old days when I ran a 4th edition dex army to NOVA just after 6th released ..... Hard mode to the max.

So I just came back is there any point at all getting my old marines and deathwing out or should I keep building tau

After reading up on the new Chaplain Litanies I am beginning to think that they could be the key to making Black Knights or a big Land Speeder squadron into a terrifying situation.

It doesn't say that a squad can't be affected by more than one Litany at a time. So the +1 to hit and the +1 to wound powers could be on the same squad at the same time.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Slaul wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
I really hope that the September White Dwarf helps us because if it doesn't I think we might be dead in the water.

On the bright side I guess I can focus more on terrain building while I wait on our army to matter again.

I agree. My first army was Dark Angels. I'd love to expand on them if they were competitive at all but I'm not a good enough player to pull off wins with a not so great army. I have a bunch of unpainted space marine stuff and it just might be time to start painting them as a new chapter.

If the September White Dwarf does bring in some cool stuff maybe I'll stick with DA but I kind of feel like we'd need DA codex v2 before there is any hope.

I'm pretty new to the hobby but it seems to me like all the non-codex chapters have been kind of left out.

I'm in very much the same boat. Fortunately I have other armies that I can run while I wait for DA to stop languishing at the bottom. I, too, lack the skill to win 40k on hard mode (hell, I struggle to get wins even when I use my Tau, one of the better armies in the game currently). I'm definitely not going to completely give up on DA though, as I love the fluff and the look of the models. I'll probably pick up three of the new Invictor Warsuits for my army, although possibly not all at once as I don't know if I can afford that right now.

Lol, exactly same situation here. Also, I'm doing the plunge to Legion, so my future 40k days will be rarer and rarer.

Went to a torney last weekend took my guard I don't see how dark Angels at this point compete with newer and better book
I hope some of the new primaris units we are getting might help but I just can't see it. Is a shame but reading some of the other comments it seem I'm not alone me thinking we are totally underpowered and in need of a new Dex fast