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GW released Errata for other, less codex-compliant Space Marines https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/16/space-marines-new-rules-for-non-codex-chaptersgw-homepage-post-3/

What we got:
* All the new Primaris units
* Shock Assault - Bonus Attack in first round of melee
* Extra Wound on Gravis units and extra Attack for Aggressors (very cool for Dark Angels)
* Upgrade to some Primaris weapons

What we didn't get:
* Chapter tactics on vehicles
* Combat Doctrines or anything similar
* Litanies for chaplains
* Points changes (both up and down)

I've a tournament the first weekend in December. Can I wait to see if September brings a new Dark Angels codex?

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW released Errata for other, less codex-compliant Space Marines https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/16/space-marines-new-rules-for-non-codex-chaptersgw-homepage-post-3/

What we got:
* All the new Primaris units
* Shock Assault - Bonus Attack in first round of melee
* Extra Wound on Gravis units and extra Attack for Aggressors (very cool for Dark Angels)
* Upgrade to some Primaris weapons

What we didn't get:
* Chapter tactics on vehicles
* Combat Doctrines or anything similar
* Litanies for chaplains
* Points changes (both up and down)

I've a tournament the first weekend in December. Can I wait to see if September brings a new Dark Angels codex?

Would not get your hopes up for a new Dex this year that white dwarf thing is most likely a start collecting set

Thing to bear in mind about Combat Doctrines is they only apply if the whole army has them. Ultramarines+ effectively have to choose between them and loyal 32, giving it an opportunity cost of 4-5CP. I mean, army-wide +1 AP on all your heavy weapons then on all your bolters then on all your big sticks is something many players would willingly throw 5CP at, but it’s still a factor. There’ll be some lists for which it’s not all a free power creep.

I main Chaos, and I’m not sure I’d even bother with my Dark Apostles if their Litanies equivalents didn’t have several ways to boost to a 2+. Abilities that require a 3+ to activate aren’t something I like to build an army around.

Anyone ever used big squads of Land Speeders buffed by the character speeders and a Darkshroud?

 Reivax26 wrote:
Anyone ever used big squads of Land Speeders buffed by the character speeders and a Darkshroud?

I've seen it used and played against it. It generally does well against all-flyer lists, where you can manuver in tight corners and force the flyers to rely on the weakend shooting, but anything with infantry - even normally ranged infantry will move up to close quarters and take advantage of the list's difficulty in close range and melee combat. Worse, a single smash captain can get in the middle and ruin the whole thing.

What does work is about 4 speeders (including the shroud) as a center of an infantry list. The speeders can safely snipe out the critical stuff from behind an infantry screen while making certain they can get to the other side of the board if the screen is about to be overwhelmed. It also makes your opponent second guess thier deployment since the speeders can tactically cover a huge area turn one and its hard to deploy things like Armagiers where the speeders can't get to them in a pinch.

Would a large squad of bikes accomplish the same thing?

 Reivax26 wrote:
Would a large squad of bikes accomplish the same thing?

Bikes are weird. They are basically two wound marines that can move fast. They are ok at doing the whole shot and fade thing, but 8th editions rules don't really reward you for doing that. I've used them a lot as a sacrificial speedbump, driving them right into the middle so my opponent can't pull off those dangerous turn 1/turn 2 charges. They lack the range for true long range dueling and aren't survivable in melee for their point cost. I use 6, but I've taken off all the melee weapons for chainswords to keep the point cost down as they are jst there to die as far up the field as possible

DA bikes are way different to regular Astartes bikes due to access to assault 2 plasma and speed of the Raven. A squad of RW bikers with two Flamers and a combi-Flamer can move 20” on turn one, pop SotR, hose down a unit with 3D6 auto hits + 12 x 3+ hits + 2 x 4+ hits, and then charge something to mess up their shooting phase in their turn. (Black Legion and Red Corsairs bikers are considered strong CSM units, and this is like a combination of both their strengths.)

Black Knights can also be advancing forwards and blazing with double plasma. Darkshroud and an Ancient can make them an uninviting and risky target, whilst providing their auras to midfield units. If they get charged, Intractable allows them to just drive off and gun down a support character with said plasma.

I'm thinking Inceptors should perhaps be our go-to option for plasma now that they have 3 wounds. D2 weapons were always their bane, and continue to be the bane of Black Knights (Riptides absolutely gak on them), but now they are harder for the enemy to just delete. Hopefully we get the points drop that vanilla Marines got, and then we're gravy.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking Inceptors should perhaps be our go-to option for plasma now that they have 3 wounds. D2 weapons were always their bane, and continue to be the bane of Black Knights (Riptides absolutely gak on them), but now they are harder for the enemy to just delete. Hopefully we get the points drop that vanilla Marines got, and then we're gravy.

they've been my go-to for plasma. Made their points back every game. Now they're even better.

Hellblasters in Wave Serpents are probably also good, but part of me feels it's a trap.

With bolter discipline, I do actually feel that DW terminators are not a bad complement to the plasma inceptors. Yes, terminators. With the DW assault strat, they can drop down, clear chaff, allow the Inceptors to actually hit the targte they want. With 24" full effectiveness range they don't even have to be up close and personal. I doubt an opponent is going to ignore the Inceptors to go after the terminators. Heck, throw in some DWK too as another threat and it's actually not a bad triple play.

Can the Deathwing Terminators land, pop Deathwing Assault and then Inceptors land?

If that can happen in that order then my 10 man DW squad with Belial will be in every list I make...

axisofentropy wrote:[they've been my go-to for plasma. Made their points back every game. Now they're even better.

Hellblasters in Wave Serpents are probably also good, but part of me feels it's a trap.

HERESY

Reivax26 wrote:Can the Deathwing Terminators land, pop Deathwing Assault and then Inceptors land?

If that can happen in that order then my 10 man DW squad with Belial will be in every list I make...

Yup

Gentlemen I may have just had a crap night at work but this news has brought one hell of a smile to my face.

Thank you.

 axisofentropy wrote:

Hellblasters in Wave Serpents are probably also good, but part of me feels it's a trap.

Now hold on a minute if we could get wave serpents that would be hilarious. Nerd Rage would cause the internet to explode.




So I'm coming back after missing 7th. Sounds like that was a good idea I have a full company of 3rd Company tacticals about 20 terminators (Somewhere along the line a case of 45 painted deathwing disappeared.) Bikes and every vehicle. Is there a decent way of running these?.

"Wave Serpents" means Impulsors with shield domes. Coined in Nanavati's codex review https://nightsatthegametable.com/blog/2019/08/20/space-marine-codex-review/

Much as I respect Nick Nanavati as a great 40k player, I hate how he compared the Impulsor to a Wave Serpent. The Serpent is still far, far superior to any Imperial transport, mainly due to its damage reduction from the Serpent Shield. I do, however, think the Impulsor is an awesome way to deliver Hellblasters.

As for the DW Assault before Inceptors drop, are both actions "at the end of your Movement phase"? If so, then that's an interesting option and I'll probably give it a go at some point.

Meanwhile, continuing the Impulsor discussion, I've been having this idea in my head of running 3 Impulsors with Hellblasters in each, 3 Invictor Warsuits with the flamers, and a couple of Drop Pods with Plasma Veterans and Azrael. The Impulsors move up, unload the Hellblasters with their special rule, then the Pods come in. Azzy moves next to all the Hellblasters to give them rerolls, then you kill stuff. Hopefully you can get all the veterans under his aura buffs too. The Invictors are mainly there for target saturation and to add some nasty melee punch to the deathball.

There’s several DW units available. Tartaros Terminator squads get +1M for free, which is nice on a deep insertion unit. They can give their gunners a Reaper Autocannon and Grenade Harness, which costs 30pts less than a Cyclone and Storm Bolter and will probably kill more of a screening unit. And the sergeant has the option of a Plasma Blaster, which will clear MEQ screens quicker and can even supercharge if you absolutely need the damage to finish something off.

They lack a Watcher in the Dark, which is a concern. When you’re buying a load of Terminators to drop into in enemy territory, you might well want to veto a nasty psychic power.

I’ve got a couple of unbuilt Tartaros squads. This might well be a calling for one of them.

 lindsay40k wrote:
There’s several DW units available. Tartaros Terminator squads get +1M for free, which is nice on a deep insertion unit. They can give their gunners a Reaper Autocannon and Grenade Harness, which costs 30pts less than a Cyclone and Storm Bolter and will probably kill more of a screening unit. And the sergeant has the option of a Plasma Blaster, which will clear MEQ screens quicker and can even supercharge if you absolutely need the damage to finish something off.

They lack a Watcher in the Dark, which is a concern. When you’re buying a load of Terminators to drop into in enemy territory, you might well want to veto a nasty psychic power.

I’ve got a couple of unbuilt Tartaros squads. This might well be a calling for one of them.

But Reaper Autocannon is a Heavy weapon, so the wielder sould fire it at -1

I run my Terminators with double Assault Cannons and Belial. That way it's 12 shots hitting on a 4 with a reroll in addition to the 32 Storm Bolter shots hitting on 3s with reroll

 Vector Strike wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
There’s several DW units available. Tartaros Terminator squads get +1M for free, which is nice on a deep insertion unit. They can give their gunners a Reaper Autocannon and Grenade Harness, which costs 30pts less than a Cyclone and Storm Bolter and will probably kill more of a screening unit. And the sergeant has the option of a Plasma Blaster, which will clear MEQ screens quicker and can even supercharge if you absolutely need the damage to finish something off.

They lack a Watcher in the Dark, which is a concern. When you’re buying a load of Terminators to drop into in enemy territory, you might well want to veto a nasty psychic power.

I’ve got a couple of unbuilt Tartaros squads. This might well be a calling for one of them.

But Reaper Autocannon is a Heavy weapon, so the wielder sould fire it at -1

Yes, it is. However, it’s S7 and AP-1. As a Chaos player, I’m the first to bemoan it’s rather lackadaisical damage, however when you’re comparing that +D6 S4 AP-1 to a stormbolter + 2D3 AP-, the aggregate damage is probably equal or better - and costs 30pts less.

Cyclone pays for being able to fire two Krak missiles. This isn’t helpful on a horde clearance niche.

The AC pays 12 more points for 6 shots at S6 AP-1 but can’t take the grenade harness. Tartaros Heavy Guy will generally get a few more hits in, though might get just as many wounds due to some of them being S4. So, the decision there is whether you want the deep striking horde clearer to have M6 or cost more and have a Watcher.

Does anyone have any idea what is going to be in the September White Dwarf?

Which one of our characters is going to get the Primaris version I wonder. My bet is on Asmodai. Interrogator Chaplains are what we are known for so it would make sense to give it to him.

Asmodai survives the Rubicon Primaris by sheer hatred. Yeah I can see that.

BTW played a practice game with two Impulsors last night. They are the real deal.

 axisofentropy wrote:
Asmodai survives the Rubicon Primaris by sheer hatred. Yeah I can see that.

BTW played a practice game with two Impulsors last night. They are the real deal.

You run Hellblasters inside them? I feel like they could give the Azrael deathball the mobility it needs, coupled with a drop pod for Azzy himself (if he gets the Primaris treatment, he might not even need that anymore).

Impulsor passengers are secondary. Important for Hammer and Anvil against shooting armies, sure. But the value is charging Impulsors into stuff to prevent them from shooting and/or charging other, flimsier units. Just like Wave Serpents but arguably better.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
Asmodai survives the Rubicon Primaris by sheer hatred. Yeah I can see that.

BTW played a practice game with two Impulsors last night. They are the real deal.

You run Hellblasters inside them? I feel like they could give the Azrael deathball the mobility it needs, coupled with a drop pod for Azzy himself (if he gets the Primaris treatment, he might not even need that anymore).

I've been looking at running impulsors with a bunch of hellblasters and azzie in a drop pod plus 3 of the war suits to take pressure of the hellblasters somewhat

A big squad of Inceptors being joined by our version of a Smash Captain except use the relic Mace instead of a Thunder Hammer.

Thoughts?

Plasma Inceptors are the best Dark Angel unit it's not close.

You think that they are better than Black Knights?