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 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
Opinion question:

Which is better the Leviathan Dread or the Sicaran tank? Specifically the Venator variant that destroys tanks.

Leviathan with Storm Cannons all day every day. 20 S7 AP-2 D2 shots is good against a lot of targets, especially with reroll buffs like Lieutenants and Azrael (if you sit still you don't even need Azrael). Range can be an issue, though.

IMO using Leviathans with Storm Cannons as anti-air basically relies on your opponent mis-positioning and allowing you to shoot them down. 24" is too easy to play around, especially if they are CWE flyers.

Slaul wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
Opinion question:

Which is better the Leviathan Dread or the Sicaran tank? Specifically the Venator variant that destroys tanks.

Leviathan with Storm Cannons all day every day. 20 S7 AP-2 D2 shots is good against a lot of targets, especially with reroll buffs like Lieutenants and Azrael (if you sit still you don't even need Azrael). Range can be an issue, though.

IMO using Leviathans with Storm Cannons as anti-air basically relies on your opponent mis-positioning and allowing you to shoot them down. 24" is too easy to play around, especially if they are CWE flyers.

I wasn't speaking about anti-air, specifically. I meant as a general purpose heavy unit. Anti-air is one thing a Leviathan can't do well, although if it can somehow get in range it'll knock just about any flyer out of the sky.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Slaul wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
Opinion question:

Which is better the Leviathan Dread or the Sicaran tank? Specifically the Venator variant that destroys tanks.

Leviathan with Storm Cannons all day every day. 20 S7 AP-2 D2 shots is good against a lot of targets, especially with reroll buffs like Lieutenants and Azrael (if you sit still you don't even need Azrael). Range can be an issue, though.

IMO using Leviathans with Storm Cannons as anti-air basically relies on your opponent mis-positioning and allowing you to shoot them down. 24" is too easy to play around, especially if they are CWE flyers.

I wasn't speaking about anti-air, specifically. I meant as a general purpose heavy unit. Anti-air is one thing a Leviathan can't do well, although if it can somehow get in range it'll knock just about any flyer out of the sky.

Ah, yeah you are right sorry. I got my wires crossed!

Not sure if you guys know yet, but the new model coming from the next PA, will be a Dark Angel. Sources from GW.

elook wrote:
Not sure if you guys know yet, but the new model coming from the next PA, will be a Dark Angel. Sources from GW.

not really shocking news, out of the 3 factions I would have put hard money on the character being a DA.

elook wrote:
Not sure if you guys know yet, but the new model coming from the next PA, will be a Dark Angel. Sources from GW.

My money is on it being a Primaris Azrael, but it could be Ezekiel or Asmodai that crosses the Rubicon Primaris. Or, perhaps it will be a new character. Either way, exciting times ahead, especially since it's likely we'll get doctrines like BA got.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

elook wrote:
Not sure if you guys know yet, but the new model coming from the next PA, will be a Dark Angel. Sources from GW.

My money is on it being a Primaris Azrael, but it could be Ezekiel or Asmodai that crosses the Rubicon Primaris. Or, perhaps it will be a new character. Either way, exciting times ahead, especially since it's likely we'll get doctrines like BA got.

And probably an upgraded chapter tactic as well.

I'm not holding my breath, I don't think GW will solve the Dark Angels problems with a Psychic Awakening book.

Though, some new stuff will hopefully make me not feel as bad playing DA

Slaul wrote:
I'm not holding my breath, I don't think GW will solve the Dark Angels problems with a Psychic Awakening book.

Though, some new stuff will hopefully make me not feel as bad playing DA

Just adding doctrines (plus our own super doctrine), chaplain litanies, and an addition to the chapter tactic will dramatically boost DA capabilities. If they decide to add more strats, relics, etc then it will be even better.
Right now I'm just looking for release date to determine if it comes out before the LVO deadline.

 bullyboy wrote:

Slaul wrote:
I'm not holding my breath, I don't think GW will solve the Dark Angels problems with a Psychic Awakening book.

Though, some new stuff will hopefully make me not feel as bad playing DA

Just adding doctrines (plus our own super doctrine), chaplain litanies, and an addition to the chapter tactic will dramatically boost DA capabilities. If they decide to add more strats, relics, etc then it will be even better.
Right now I'm just looking for release date to determine if it comes out before the LVO deadline.

Oh for sure, it will definitely help! I just don't expect it to be enough to be very competitive. I'm not even talking Iron Hands competitive, even 50%ish WR would be nice.

I think GW said the release of the next book is December 25th.

Slaul wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Slaul wrote:
I'm not holding my breath, I don't think GW will solve the Dark Angels problems with a Psychic Awakening book.

Though, some new stuff will hopefully make me not feel as bad playing DA

Just adding doctrines (plus our own super doctrine), chaplain litanies, and an addition to the chapter tactic will dramatically boost DA capabilities. If they decide to add more strats, relics, etc then it will be even better.
Right now I'm just looking for release date to determine if it comes out before the LVO deadline.

Oh for sure, it will definitely help! I just don't expect it to be enough to be very competitive. I'm not even talking Iron Hands competitive, even 50%ish WR would be nice.

I think GW said the release of the next book is December 25th.

No, that is the reveal date, not release. It could be up for preorder on the 28th for a jan 4th release though, that would be good. The cutoff date for new material is the 11th, so that would give one more week. If it's pre0rder 11th for 18th though, SOL. Doubt that will be the case.

 bullyboy wrote:

Slaul wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Slaul wrote:
I'm not holding my breath, I don't think GW will solve the Dark Angels problems with a Psychic Awakening book.

Though, some new stuff will hopefully make me not feel as bad playing DA

Just adding doctrines (plus our own super doctrine), chaplain litanies, and an addition to the chapter tactic will dramatically boost DA capabilities. If they decide to add more strats, relics, etc then it will be even better.
Right now I'm just looking for release date to determine if it comes out before the LVO deadline.

Oh for sure, it will definitely help! I just don't expect it to be enough to be very competitive. I'm not even talking Iron Hands competitive, even 50%ish WR would be nice.

I think GW said the release of the next book is December 25th.

No, that is the reveal date, not release. It could be up for preorder on the 28th for a jan 4th release though, that would be good. The cutoff date for new material is the 11th, so that would give one more week. If it's pre0rder 11th for 18th though, SOL. Doubt that will be the case.

Oh shoot, right that is just the reveal date.

i hope it is Primaris Azrael and he lost the watcher with the helm due to the lion taking it back.

That would be indeed epic.

It's going to be Lazarus, not any of the old models. There is no way that GW aren't going to take advantage of his "Thousand Sons and Tzeentch hate" in this conflict book. Whether he comes alone, or is tied to a battle box with other miniatures (not new ones), who knows?

I have been wondering why nothing about this has been leaked. All of the other ones had stuff leaked but not this one.

The preview today confirms Master Lazarus. It also mentions that we'll have "juicy new content, especially for Deathwing and Ravenwing commanders." I suppose this is a tactics thread and not a news and rumours thread, but I look forward to a boost to the Deathwing in particular.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The preview today confirms Master Lazarus. It also mentions that we'll have "juicy new content, especially for Deathwing and Ravenwing commanders." I suppose this is a tactics thread and not a news and rumours thread, but I look forward to a boost to the Deathwing in particular.

Yeah, sort of disappointed in the lack of The Lion or Primaris Azrael, but that Lazarus model is pretty badass! I'll have to get it of course, as well as the new book. Hopefully we get some really sweet stuff for our Ravenwing and Deathwing too and not just fluffy non-competitive options and rules.

I am looking at collecting a small dark angels army of around 1000pts, what is best to take at those small levels in order to be effective.

I'm actually thrilled that Azzy didn't get the mutant marine treatment. I strongly dislike Primaris in general so it means he can still be used with the builds I like.

froper98 wrote:
I am looking at collecting a small dark angels army of around 1000pts, what is best to take at those small levels in order to be effective.

best to wait a few weeks to see what is in store with the updated Dark Angels.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The preview today confirms Master Lazarus. It also mentions that we'll have "juicy new content, especially for Deathwing and Ravenwing commanders." I suppose this is a tactics thread and not a news and rumours thread, but I look forward to a boost to the Deathwing in particular.

Yeah, sort of disappointed in the lack of The Lion or Primaris Azrael, but that Lazarus model is pretty badass! I'll have to get it of course, as well as the new book. Hopefully we get some really sweet stuff for our Ravenwing and Deathwing too and not just fluffy non-competitive options and rules.

I find the model quite boring when compared to the other characters released. I'm already looking at what I'm going to do to change it and make it more dynamic or imposing. It's a shame that you're spending $40 on a model that you feel like you have to change to look decent (yes I know, I don't have to buy him, but I guess we'll see what his rules are like first)

I had a game the other day against Orks. He played 3 flyers, 30 man squad, 2 10 man squads in Trucks, 3 squads of gretchen, big Mek with shock attack gun, 2 warbosses, pain doc, another big Mek with a kustom force field, 14 lootas and some of the big guns batteries they can take.

I played a new list of mine that's a Vanguard and an Airwing.
Belial
Ezekiel
5 Deathwing Knights
10 Deathwing Terminators. 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 2 Chainfists. Sgt with Double Lightning Claws
2 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Twin Lascannons and close combat weapons
Deredeo Dreadnought with Autocannon Battery and Heavy Bolters
Stormraven: Twin Heavy Plasma, Hurricane Bolters, Twin Multi Melta
Dark Talon
Nephilim Jetfighter

We played an ITC setup where there were 5 objectives on the board plus the secondaries. I went first and after my 2nd turn he quit because he got called in to work. Wasn't looking that good for him though. I had killed 2 of the flyers and crippled the other. Both trucks, 20 out of the 30 man squad, half his big guns, and the Big Mek with the shock attack gun. He was down 4 Lootas too.

He had killed the Nephilim Jetfighter, Dark Talon and put 5 wounds on the Stormraven.

In the twilight days of our Codex I've had a number of tournament games (local) and test games for other player prepping for an upcoming tourney. Several things have struck me when playing the new Space Marine lists (besides Iron Hands being bonkers).

First is that Terminators are both helped and hurt by Doctrines. I took fifteen Tartaros Terminators for a tourney (going with a theme). Terminators melt under high volume AP-1/AP-2 fire which is now quite common. Their own fire when they drop in Turn 2, however, can be improved by Tactical Doctrine (not that I could use it at the tourney). Shock Assault means that they hit in close combat much harder. Five extra Powerfist attacks is nothing to sneeze at. I'm also keen to try Transhuman Physiology with them. On the whole, though, I still think they'll be a tough choice in the new meta unless we get some Iron Hands-level Strats for them.

Next, my Black Knights can still get the business done but they also hate high volume AP-1/AP-2 fire. At least they are T5. With Shock Assault my large squadron has actually wiped out two large Ork Mobs in close combat (not on purpose). They were helped by Sammael in both instances, but all those extra S5 AP-1 attacks are good.

Sammael and the Talonmaster have been the stars in most games. They actually took down an Iron Hands Leviathan with massed fire that had shrugged off Lascannon fire for two turns (and had massacred a Deathwing assault). It's sad watching Iron Hands do Landspeeders better than us, but being on the receiving end gave me some ideas for when we get Devastator Doctrine! Massed Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter fire at AP-2 could be fun.

The Dark Talon has a tough time facing Iron Hands flyers that can essentially one-shot it. At least the Alaitoc Flyers might be getting the same treatment...

Cheers to the upcoming update!

I have basically started running just Deathwing and Dreadnoughts. Maybe a Land Raider Crusader to help get Deathwing Knights into combat.

I did this for 2 reasons: my turns go a lot faster and I love Terminators.

Any idea when Ritual of the Damned is coming out?

 Reivax26 wrote:
Any idea when Ritual of the Damned is coming out?

Sisters might be a two week release so end on January early February we might see the book but I'm not 100% sure tbh
We just have to wait and see at this point biggest worry for me is the fact they have not previewed any rules yet I hope there not crap but with gw you never know

I'm joining an escalation league in a few weeks and I think I want to take my Dark Angels.

Rules are no named characters (until a certain points level) and warlord + trait is set for the entire league. We'll be using Open War cards using the CA 2019 rules.

Here is what I'm thinking for the first step at 500 points. I know I'm a little light on high strength weapons but I'm hoping that I won't encounter any T8 at 500 points. If I do, my plan is to maaaybe plink some wounds with the suppressors and if not I'll try to play objectives / get my intercessors + master into combat.

Overall strategy is to apply pressure on characters with the eliminators, hopefully giving them hard choices on positioning, and to move the troops and master up the board as quickly as possible taking objectives early and holding them with the intercessors.

Any idea on what I could change, maybe make this meaner?

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Dark Angels) [29 PL, 3CP, 500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

+ HQ +

Primaris Master [6 PL, 86pts]: 3. Brilliant Strategist, Warlord
. Auto Bolt Rifle & Bolt Pistol: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle
. Heavenfall Blade

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: 4x Intercessor
. Bolt rifles
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: 4x Intercessor
. Bolt rifles
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 64pts]: 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

+ Fast Attack +

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [3 PL, 72pts]
. Eliminator: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. Eliminator: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak

++ Total: [29 PL, 3CP, 500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 Reivax26 wrote:
Any idea when Ritual of the Damned is coming out?

My guy who worked for GW speculated based on history that it will be the end of January.

Preorder next saturday.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/11/psychic-awakening-sorcerous-schemesgw-homepage-post-4/

Rumors of some leaks of the DA stuff (+6" range in dev doctrine?) out on the interwebs. Anyone have any links?