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 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Kdash wrote:


Easier solution - tell them to stop cheating.

Darkshrouds only affect infantry and bikers now, so they won't get the bonus on their flyers.

Not disputing, but curious, where did you see this? I pulled my info from an online review, so it may not be entirely accurate. I know Azrael's bubble got nerfed to infantry and bikers, I didn't see the change to the Darkshroud.

Got the codex in front of me, it still affects every DA unit. Only Azrael was nerfed.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dark angels will probably be the best marines. However - they are still marines.

It's true. Marines never win any tournaments or have any overpowered models to make them even approaching competitive (not to mention get what amounts to an entire codex of new toys this edition). *rolls eyes*

Point me to a marine army winning a tournament in since the Eldar release. Hell marines should be winning about 25% of tournaments since that's about what their participation rate is if they were as powerful as the rest of the codexes (1/6 in September pre-eldar/nids, 0 for in GTs since as far as I can tell). Considering that one OP model (which isn't) along with the other effective tournament weapon (dual AC) were just nerfed by CA I would be pleasantly surprised to see them in top 10s going forward much less winning.

Just because you get ROFL stomped by marines in your local meta doesn't make them good out in the real world...

bananathug wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dark angels will probably be the best marines. However - they are still marines.

It's true. Marines never win any tournaments or have any overpowered models to make them even approaching competitive (not to mention get what amounts to an entire codex of new toys this edition). *rolls eyes*

Point me to a marine army winning a tournament in since the Eldar release. Hell marines should be winning about 25% of tournaments since that's about what their participation rate is if they were as powerful as the rest of the codexes (1/6 in September pre-eldar/nids, 0 for in GTs since as far as I can tell). Considering that one OP model (which isn't) along with the other effective tournament weapon (dual AC) were just nerfed by CA I would be pleasantly surprised to see them in top 10s going forward much less winning.

Just because you get ROFL stomped by marines in your local meta doesn't make them good out in the real world...

Blood Angels - prior even to their codex - did quite well in Warzone Atlanta in November, especially compared to CWE. That’s without your “one OP model,” and was only the first big tournament I had to check. And that’s against a full Eldar codex and with Ynnari out there. But I’m sure you’ll make up some excuse (“Wahh, they only got second in a major tournament, clearly they’re no good!”). Seriously, watching SM players complain carries as much weight as Veruca Salt - with her appropriate last name - screaming, “But I want it now!”

Nice job descending into personal attacks, btw. Really makes your arguments more believable. (Yes, I get the irony here)

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

bananathug wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dark angels will probably be the best marines. However - they are still marines.

It's true. Marines never win any tournaments or have any overpowered models to make them even approaching competitive (not to mention get what amounts to an entire codex of new toys this edition). *rolls eyes*

Point me to a marine army winning a tournament in since the Eldar release. Hell marines should be winning about 25% of tournaments since that's about what their participation rate is if they were as powerful as the rest of the codexes (1/6 in September pre-eldar/nids, 0 for in GTs since as far as I can tell). Considering that one OP model (which isn't) along with the other effective tournament weapon (dual AC) were just nerfed by CA I would be pleasantly surprised to see them in top 10s going forward much less winning.

Just because you get ROFL stomped by marines in your local meta doesn't make them good out in the real world...

Blood Angels - prior even to their codex - did quite well in Warzone Atlanta in November, especially compared to CWE. That’s without your “one OP model,” and was only the first big tournament I had to check. And that’s against a full Eldar codex and with Ynnari out there. But I’m sure you’ll make up some excuse (“Wahh, they only got second in a major tournament, clearly they’re no good!”). Seriously, watching SM players complain carries as much weight as Veruca Salt - with her appropriate last name - screaming, “But I want it now!”

Nice job descending into personal attacks, btw. Really makes your arguments more believable. (Yes, I get the irony here)

You're right about the personal attack and I'm sorry it came across that way. I meant it more as a general you (a lot of the people complaining about SM being OP) and not a specific you but it was poorly worded and I should know better. I apologize and will do better in the future.

Another point of clarity, I thought it was understood that I was talking codex space marines and not any variety of space marine under the sun. Since the one "OP" character referenced in your post is contained in that codex I thought it was clear. Again, my bad for not being specific

That "blood angels" list was 3 units of marines (one HQ, razorbacks and storm ravens which have had their price in that configuration raised by CA) and that tournament had a list date of the day the eldar codex released and they still outperformed CODEX space marines. There were literally no other SM armies in the top 10. For a faction that is competitive to only have 1 out of the top 10 seems a bit like a statistical anomaly to me as the other "powerful" factions all had multiple armies in the top 10. Also when just controlling for battle points and remove the subjective scores of painting and sportsmanship (you know, the power of the army in a competitive setting) that blood angle army falls out of the top 3 and all the way down to tied for 9th, not really an overpowering performance.

I don't think that SM are winning lots of tournaments and have overpowered units that make them have a competitive advantage (statement+sarcastic tone = inverse of statement right?). I think that tournament was too soon for most players to put together eldar lists based on the new codex. Given that and the point changes in CA I think tournament results will bear out my assertion that Codex SM are not as powerful a codex as eldar or nids or IG or CSM.

Are you taking the opposite side of that conclusion? That SM will "continue to dominate the tournament scene" or do you think the codexes are fairly balanced and that we will see an even dispersion of wins among the different codexes based on luck, skill, terrain and other variables? It's one of the three and my opinion is that CODEX space marines will not be seen often among the top tables (which the results thus far support)

Thanks for bringing that example of a blood angles soup army that placed well (considering soft scores) at a tournament before the players had a chance to digest the new eldar codex. I doubt these results will hold for Codex Space marines but I would be happy to be proven wrong or hasty in my judgement. Again, sorry about the personal attack and sloppy language, I will try to be more clear going forward.