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More missions? How can they be more missions if they aren't compatible with gang war 1?

If the rules in the box aren't 'dumbed down', how come they are simpler, less complex and less interesting than the conflicting rules from gang war1?

What "conflicting" rules?

The missions in the rulebook are compatible with Gang War 1. As presented, they're for Underhive scenery layouts rather than Sector Mechanicus, but that's perfectly fine. I don't see anything in the scenario descriptions that prevent you from playing them on SM scenery if you'd rather do that.

Speaking of scenarios, I threw this together

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What "conflicting" rules?

Oh boy, you never realized much of the contents in the Rulebook is incompatible with Gang war 1?

Baxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

All the missions in Gang War can be played either way.

Ok, so the missions in the rulebook are garbage as well as it's skill lists, equipment lists and price costs.

When looking at the cards from the starter box, all cards seems to be compatible with the dumbed down demo version of Necromunda. It looks like the 2 House decks share the same compatibility.

What are the chance of seeing some proper new cards which is interacts with the Gang War 1 rules?

So don’t use them?

It’ll be a sad day in the Underhive if there’s no house ruling,

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The missions in the rulebook are compatible with Gang War 1. As presented, they're for Underhive scenery layouts rather than Sector Mechanicus, but that's perfectly fine. I don't see anything in the scenario descriptions that prevent you from playing them on SM scenery if you'd rather do that.

Rally? I'm not talking about 3d/2d Terrain. Gang War1 and it's missions support both. I'm talking about the game rules.

So, in a campaign, how many missions could you afford to play from rule book? You'll get Victory Points sure, they have no value in a campaign. They are a lose-lose investment for both gangs, even if they are strictly "compatible".

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

So don’t use them?

It’ll be a sad day in the Underhive if there’s no house ruling,

Agreed, they can work with a few house rules adding income, xp, reputation and turf size to the missions. I'm just amazed that GW would bother releasing this the same day as Gang War 1 and still not make it compatible. The rulebook just includes so much demo junk, dumbed down garbage that needs to be fixed by the players to be usable.

Ah, yes. The scenarios in Gang War 1 seem to be replacements for those in the rulebook (or at least, revisions, to add the campaign-specific bits; Stand-off is basically Tunnel Skirmish with campaign rewards).

On the other hand, it's trivial to adapt those in the rulebook for campaign play.

The boxed set is designed and intended to be completely stand alone - a complete gaming experience that you don’t need to expand any further.

That’s why the full gang rules aren’t included, and thus affects mission rewards

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Ah, yes. The scenarios in Gang War 1 seem to be replacements for those in the rulebook (or at least, revisions, to add the campaign-specific bits; Stand-off is basically Tunnel Skirmish with campaign rewards).

On the other hand, it's trivial to adapt those in the rulebook for campaign play.

And when releasing the rulebook missions the same day as Gang War 1, that should be trivial for GW to adapt too.

I have a question for the 'Deadlock' Tactics card found in the Goliath deck:

"DEADLOCK

Zone Mortalis

Play this card at the start of any round.

Choose a closed door anywhere on the board. For the duration of this round, the door cannot be opened in any way.

This card can only be used in Sector Mechanicus battles. If it is randomly drawn in a Zone Mortalis battle, discard it and draw a new one."


Should Sector Mechanicus and Zone Mortalis be swapped in this text?

They already did. Looking again, the scenarios in Gang War are the scenarios from Underhive, with campaign rewards and a little more flexibility in setup and crew choice. So, what's your problem?

Gang War 2 will have some more, I think.

Other than that, what do you think are the other rules conflicts?

GW made the commercial decision to rease a stand alone boxed game with expansions. That doesn't make the rules in the box dumbed down. They just didn't need the advanced add on rules from Gang War in the box.

Basically everyone is arguing exactly the same side of the argument just now.

It's like how Blood Bowl and Deathzone were released as separate products in the '90s.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They already did. Looking again, the scenarios in Gang War are the scenarios from Underhive, with campaign rewards and a little more flexibility in setup and crew choice. So, what's your problem?

Gang War 2 will have some more, I think.

Other than that, what do you think are the other rules conflicts?

The problem? Initially I simply said that these pages were garbage. The problem with that is that they are 'dead' pages, things you always have to ignore when turning the pages in the rulebook. What if those pages were summary tables of Injury, Trading Post, Weapon profiles and costs instead? Wow, that'd be amazing!

After that, the discussion continued when someone replied that, hey - what's wrong with more missions? Where I simply stated that these missions weren't really compatible, or would always be a lose-lose situation for both gangs regardless of the outcome. There's nothing to gain from them in a campaign. In which some one replied that it would be a sad day without house rules in Necromunda. Sure, I agree with that. But do we really need house rules on incompatible rules released the same day? Couldn't this been done in a better way, keeping the pages in the rulebook relevant from the get-go? On which some one replied - but hey, these missions are basically the same as those in Gang War 1, except for some modifications.

In which case I reply - then why is the "more missions" argument valid, if they are the same? On which I wonder - why do we house rule missions which already have official 'house ruled' versions by GW in Gang War 1?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flinty wrote:
GW made the commercial decision to rease a stand alone boxed game with expansions. That doesn't make the rules in the box dumbed down. They just didn't need the advanced add on rules from Gang War in the box.

Basically everyone is arguing exactly the same side of the argument just now.

We have 3 different rules set:

1) Rulebook without advanced section
2) Rulebook with advanced section
3 Gang War 1

Out of these 3, nr 1) and nr 2) will never be played. Not now, not ever. They are, as you say it, without the advanced rules in Gang War 1. Let me show you how dumbed down this is:

-Lack of weaponsand equipment (only 15-16 items per house!)
-Lack of skills (only 11 skills per house!)
-No campaign (the essence of Necromunda!)

What are we left with? Dumbed down demo version of the game, never to be picked up or played ever.

I've played several games now, and not yet touched Gang War. If I were playing in a store environment, "pick-up" games against strangers, that's what I'd continue to do. I don't think a full campaign using the Gang War rules is obligatory.

I doubt I'll ever play more than one game against any given opponent using the basic rules, but fair enough; that's what they're for.

Interesting, I've never encountered that point of view before. When people are showing up with Meltaguns, Heavy Stubbers, Heavy Bolters, Boltguns, Chainswords, Plasma guns, power axes, Orlocks, Delaque, Van Saar, Cawdor and Outlanders gangs, you'll simply no longer be able to use those rules.

Enjoy it while you can, it won't last many months.

Baxx wrote:
What are we left with? Dumbed down demo version of the game, never to be picked up or played ever.

What the feth are you even talking about? It's not a 'dumbed down demo'. The rules in the rulebook are the rules. Gang War 1 is expansion.

What is so difficult about this to grasp?

The rules in the rulebook are not the rules in gang war1! Not for weapons. Not for equipment. Not for skills. Not for scenarios. To put it in your words: That's what the feth I'm talking about. I'm talking about the parts in the rule book that are incompatible with Gang War 1.

If you included the 4 rows above the one you quoted me on, you could have noticed.

I've just combined the two books into one single document, and let me tell you, there were a ton of garbage that I had to cut out from the rulebook - stuff that simply does not combine with gang war 1. Have you summarized the two books and looked at the differences?

Leafing through the Underhive book, I estimate 27 of the rules pages are relevant for Gang War campaign games and 31 are not, barring the odd weapon profile or trait that's inexplicably missing from Gang War.

Baxx wrote:
The rules in the rulebook are not the rules in gang war1! Not for weapons. Not for equipment. Not for skills. Not for scenarios. To put it in your words: That's what the feth I'm talking about. I'm talking about the parts in the rule book that are incompatible with Gang War 1.

If you included the 4 rows above the one you quoted me on, you could have noticed.

I've just combined the two books into one single document, and let me tell you, there were a ton of garbage that I had to cut out from the rulebook - stuff that simply does not combine with gang war 1. Have you summarized the two books and looked at the differences?

The way you play the game, the only way, is in the base rulebook. Gang war adds a campaign mechanic, how to deal with multilevel terrain, and more skills. That's it. All those extra weapons are for the campaign. They don't go to a starting gang

stratigo wrote:

The way you play the game, the only way, is in the base rulebook. Gang war adds a campaign mechanic, how to deal with multilevel terrain, and more skills. That's it. All those extra weapons are for the campaign. They don't go to a starting gang

Well, there's 3 different ways to play the game, 2 of which are in the base rulebook and 1 is in parts of the rulebook and Gang War 1. Those extra weapons can perfectly well go to a starting gang. I've already gone through alot of the differences and the incompatible differences.

The only way I'm ever gonna play the game is the 3rd option: less than half of the rulebook + Gang War1 (and any future add-ons). In the long run, option 1 and 2 won't survive. they won't receive any future development. It's a project dead from the start.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Leafing through the Underhive book, I estimate 27 of the rules pages are relevant for Gang War campaign games and 31 are not, barring the odd weapon profile or trait that's inexplicably missing from Gang War.

Thank you!

So, I never played Necromunda the first time around, and Lexicanum is surprisingly thin on the ground for background info about it.

Can anyone tell me more about Ratskins, and how they used to be incorporated into the game? From what I can see, they don't really interact with the Hivers at all, except for a few outcasts. Were there playable gangs of outcasts in the past, or just the occassional Ratskin tracker hired gun?

I feel like if they were brought back, they should be made to be a little less reclusive, perhaps being more aggressive and attacking Hivers more often? Instead of avoiding them at all costs, which seems to be the way they were described previously from the little I have gleaned on the wiki.

The Ratskins were brought in as part of the Outlanders expansion. You could get a whole gang of them, but they couldn't use the trading post and had a totally different mechanic for getting creds and doing upkeep. From memory they would tend to be ultra poor, until they were good enough to steal territory and loot it to death.

 Haighus wrote:
So, I never played Necromunda the first time around, and Lexicanum is surprisingly thin on the ground for background info about it.

Can anyone tell me more about Ratskins, and how they used to be incorporated into the game? From what I can see, they don't really interact with the Hivers at all, except for a few outcasts. Were there playable gangs of outcasts in the past, or just the occassional Ratskin tracker hired gun?

I feel like if they were brought back, they should be made to be a little less reclusive, perhaps being more aggressive and attacking Hivers more often? Instead of avoiding them at all costs, which seems to be the way they were described previously from the little I have gleaned on the wiki.

Go to Yaktribe, login, find download section and download Outlanders to read all about them first hand. All old rulebooks are free and legal to download. While main rulebook only had rules for Ratskin Scout (hired gun for any gang to hire), there was a whole Ratskins gang and a special character, Brakar, in Outlanders.

In case some one else is spending a lot of time building and painting terrain and minis these days, I recommend a couple of really good (and long) podcasts/episodes from people with a bit more insight into the game than "these models look really nice" unboxing videoes:

https://podtail.com/podcast/chronicles-from-the-underhive-s-podcast/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmO2qmjjYdA

Baxx wrote:

stratigo wrote:

The way you play the game, the only way, is in the base rulebook. Gang war adds a campaign mechanic, how to deal with multilevel terrain, and more skills. That's it. All those extra weapons are for the campaign. They don't go to a starting gang

Well, there's 3 different ways to play the game, 2 of which are in the base rulebook and 1 is in parts of the rulebook and Gang War 1. Those extra weapons can perfectly well go to a starting gang. I've already gone through alot of the differences and the incompatible differences.

The only way I'm ever gonna play the game is the 3rd option: less than half of the rulebook + Gang War1 (and any future add-ons). In the long run, option 1 and 2 won't survive. they won't receive any future development. It's a project dead from the start.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Leafing through the Underhive book, I estimate 27 of the rules pages are relevant for Gang War campaign games and 31 are not, barring the odd weapon profile or trait that's inexplicably missing from Gang War.

Thank you!

I understand what you are trying to get at, but the way you are saying it is complete nonsense. The underhive rulebook has the rules. It has the option to limit the rules you use for 'basic' play. But in advanced (eg the full game) you still use every single one of those rules. Gang war adds rules for 3d terrain (all of 4 pages), 6 scenarios, AND campaigns. The campaigns have nothing to do with on the table play, with is, 90 percent, from the underhive book. That is simply how it is.

You can, and certainly will, use zone mortalis rules in campaign play. It is the attacker's choice, and some gangs are better in shorter range.

For those who are slow on the uptake, let me break this down for you.

Rule Book Rules = Zone Mortalis
Gang War 1 Rules = Necromunda

A few years back, Forge World developed a game they were really proud of called Zone Mortalis but few people bought it mostly because of the really high price of their resin game boards which couldn't be adapted well to 40k (or any other GW game). Forge World is in charge of all Specialist Games titles now so when it came time to do Necromunda, they saw an opportunity to incorporate (inculcate?) Zone Mortalis into the redesign. This allowed them to distribute their pet game to the larger community. Expect future Necromunda releases to be very inclusive of the Zone Mortalis rules. Also, when their Epic Armageddon overhaul is released, expect it to contain Aeronautica Imperialis rules. Seriously, you know it's going to happen so just accept it.

 Breotan wrote:
For those who are slow on the uptake, let me break this down for you.

Rule Book Rules = Zone Mortalis
Gang War 1 Rules = Necromunda

A few years back, Forge World developed a game they were really proud of called Zone Mortalis but few people bought it mostly because of the really high price of their resin game boards which couldn't be adapted well to 40k (or any other GW game). Forge World is in charge of all Specialist Games titles now so when it came time to do Necromunda, they saw an opportunity to incorporate (inculcate?) Zone Mortalis into the redesign. This allowed them to distribute their pet game to the larger community. Expect future Necromunda releases to be very inclusive of the Zone Mortalis rules. Also, when their Epic Armageddon overhaul is released, expect it to contain Aeronautica Imperialis rules. Seriously, you know it's going to happen so just accept it.

To be slightly more accurate:

Rule Book Rules = Zone Mortalis
Gang War 1 Rules = about 1/5th of Necromunda

stratigo wrote:

I understand what you are trying to get at, but the way you are saying it is complete nonsense. The underhive rulebook has the rules. It has the option to limit the rules you use for 'basic' play. But in advanced (eg the full game) you still use every single one of those rules. Gang war adds rules for 3d terrain (all of 4 pages), 6 scenarios, AND campaigns. The campaigns have nothing to do with on the table play, with is, 90 percent, from the underhive book. That is simply how it is.

You can, and certainly will, use zone mortalis rules in campaign play. It is the attacker's choice, and some gangs are better in shorter range.

Did you ever summarize the two books and look at the difference? I did. What you're saying is simply not correct.

 Breotan wrote:
For those who are slow on the uptake, let me break this down for you.

Rule Book Rules = Zone Mortalis
Gang War 1 Rules = Necromunda

A more accurate summary would be:

Rule Book Rules = Necromunda
Gang War 1 Rules = More Necromunda