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I have only used dante once. He is not worth his points. Pretty much all other chapter masters provide CPs, but not dante, some of them even cost less points. A captain is good enough as a source of re-rolls hit rolls of 1s. Dante allows re-rolls of 1s and 2s. Not worth ~100 pts. The SG ancient as your warlord (with standard of sacrifice) already lets you re-roll all failed hit rolls, plus 5+ FNP.

Afaik just Azrael and Calgar are providing CP?

Some counter-arguments:
- Dante would allow for my Intercessors and more importantly then my Vanguard Vets / SG to reroll hits.
- SG reroll works only for models within 6"
- You would have to make the Ancient your WL and lose on some good WLT.
- Dante is actually not that bad against Knights, since they tend to be characters

 lash92 wrote:
Afaik just Azrael and Calgar are providing CP?

Yes, true. Girlyman provides 3 CP to any IMPERIUM army, but he isnt a chapter master.

 lash92 wrote:

- Dante would allow for my Intercessors and more importantly then my Vanguard Vets / SG to reroll hits.

A captain doesnt ??

 lash92 wrote:

- SG reroll works only for models within 6"

True. But you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the fight phase with the ancient for units within 6" of him, dante doesnt do that.

 lash92 wrote:

- You would have to make the Ancient your WL and lose on some good WLT.

The ancient doesnt get a WLT ??

 lash92 wrote:

Dante is actually not that bad against Knights, since they tend to be characters

A simple captain with TH, angels wings or relic hammer is ten times better at killing a knight.

A captain only allows you rerolling 1´s. Not a big deal for your Intercessors, but if we are talking Vanguard Vets with TH then it makes a big difference.


True but a I was planing on including both most likely.


Sure he does, but if you are forced to make him your WL you lose out on things like a 4D TH or Guard grand stratagist or something else.


Angels Wing Cpt and Dante do both an average of 6.48 wounds to the Knight (without Red Rampage). Sure Dante is more expensive so the Captain is a better ROI points for damge wise, but I wouldn´t call it 10 times better ;-)


Edit: Formating

 lash92 wrote:
A captain only allows you rerolling 1´s. Not a big deal for your Intercessors, but if we are talking Vanguard Vets with TH then it makes a big difference.

Well, not really. With dante you would only be able to re-roll 1s and 2s for vanguard vets with TH. Re-rolls before modifiers, which means you cant re-roll 3s. At the time of re-rolls a 3 is still a hit, and cant be re-rolled. It gets modified to 2 after re-rolls, because of the -1 to hit, and thats a miss.

I´m aware of this. My point was that rerolling 1´s and 2´s is more impactful compared to rerolling 1´s for a model which only hits on 4+ like VV with TH compared to a model which hits on 3+.

Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.

kryczek wrote:
Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.

Only if he, and the unit he wants to buff, survives two turns after deepstriking, which is doubtful.

 p5freak wrote:

kryczek wrote:
Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.

Only if he, and the unit he wants to buff, survives two turns after deepstriking, which is doubtful.

This!


While Astorath also grants full rerolls, he only grants it in CC and at that point I´m willing to invest the 75 points to upgrade an Astorath to a Dante.

Ah ok, I tend not to DS anymore. Too many failed charges killing everyone.

There's no reason to deep strike usually.

Why shouldn´t there be a reason to deepstrike?

Because 9" charges suck, and the strat only hits one unit. And not their babysitter.

Well, lemartes lets DC re-roll failed charges, and he can re-roll his failed charge. If your captain has black rage, he can re-roll as well, if close to lemartes. Angels wings also allows to re-roll a failed charge. But, its no fun failing those charges, even with re-rolls. Which happens a lot. Thats why i prefer ranged weapons on my deepstrikers, which usually are inceptors.

Your buffer doesn't need to get in, if his aura works on unit's within 6", that's why I wanted to try Dante next game.

The babysitter really does for full effectiveness. Bottom line is that the way the game works, dc are 15 point models and sg are 28 ish pt models. There is no strategy or unit combo that fixes this.

How do you guys kit out your van vets and how do you play them? I've used them with plasma pistols and couple of storm shields to drop and soften a target/possible counter before I pull my jump captain from the gunline to make it's DoA charge. I think I wanna try something else with them.. they are my 2nd jump unit after I take SGas option A on all my lists.

Secondly what are your thoughts on shadowspear? Those DS denials and supressors might have a place in BA lists..

Quick questions.

Best kit to make Smash Captains from?

NexAddo wrote:
Quick questions.

Best kit to make Smash Captains from?

Blood Angels Vanguard Vet. You couldon't build several from this kit.
I also really like the Blood Angels Chaplain kit. Replaces his head and Crozius and add in a shield and go.

I made mine with a mix of Vanguard Vet and Sanguinary Guard parts. I like the fancy Jump Pack to represent the Angels Wing relic but this is purely cosmetic.

NexAddo wrote:
Quick questions.

Best kit to make Smash Captains from?

Mine uses the Blood Angels Jump Pack Chaplain as a base, I just removed the hands and head and put a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield as well as a new head instead. It looks properly heroic for me.

Whats your opinion on the new Vanguard Primaris so far?
I think the models themself won´t help up that much, especially if the leaked point costs are true. And the psychic powers are nice but I don´t know how much we will benefit from them.

What I really are the two previewed WLT. Giving a unit a free +1 to hit is great, my first idea was an firebase of devs. Any other good applications?
The second is also nice. You could deploy 3x10 Scouts 9" away from your opponent and if you get second just redeploy them out of LOS.

 lash92 wrote:
Whats your opinion on the new Vanguard Primaris so far?
I think the models themself won´t help up that much, especially if the leaked point costs are true. And the psychic powers are nice but I don´t know how much we will benefit from them.

What I really are the two previewed WLT. Giving a unit a free +1 to hit is great, my first idea was an firebase of devs. Any other good applications?

The new Vanguards are not overwhelming. Suppressors give us another Jump Pack shooty unit to compliment Inceptors. Their ability to deny Overwatch is also quite useful since we only get one Angel's Wing.

Infiltrators look adequate but their points cost seems a tad high to me. If they come down to <20ppm I will look at them again but for now, I think Scouts fill that niche well enough for us.

Eliminators are a cheap Heavy choice which is decent if you want to run a Brigade. Not a bad idea given how CP-hungry Blood Angels can be. They also have the ability to ignore LOS which is nice for ITC games.

I would run the Warlord with +1 to-Hit with a big unit of Hellblasters. They get even more firepower than a Dev squad. Add an Ancient with Standard of Sacrifice and the Hellblasters get a 5+++ and can make a "parting shot" on a 4+. They are also immune to getting hot if they overcharge. I would start them off in a Repulsor in case the enemy gets 1st turn. This also has the advantage of being a second shooty unit that can benefit from the WLT if the enemy manages to kill your Hellbalsters. Build a dakka Repulsor and your Captain can boost either your anti-infantry shooting from the Repulsor if you need to clear hordes or the Hellblasters if you need to kill vehicles/elites. Add a cheap Lt to reroll 1s to wound and that is a very dangerous firebase.

I hate scouts. Hate them. I don't get the love affair with an 11 point model with 4+ armor. The deploy trick backfires as much as it helps.

These new units are being priced too high to displace them, though.

I'm working on converting all my lists to all intercessors, all the time. Dissy cannons be damned. Scouts and tacs are too crappy after not getting a price drop. Scouts are 8 point models and tacs are 10 point models.

I think most people love some because it's the cheapest way to fill out marine detachments. But after the point drops my two BA Batallions just have 2 scout units and the rest is intercessor.

 lash92 wrote:
I think most people love some because it's the cheapest way to fill out marine detachments. But after the point drops my two BA Batallions just have 2 scout units and the rest is intercessor.

That seems like a reasonable compromise. There ARE reasons to deploy out of the DZ, but not NEARLY like it was before the deep strike nerfs.

Yes I don't use it for screening purposes just to have some units on / near objectives so my opponent is pressured to move out.

Well, been a bit (almost a year), since I took a short break from my BA and 40k. Came back and began looking at the point values CA: 2018 brought.

What do you guys think of Heavy Bolter Attack Bikes now? At 37 points kitted out, the Attack Bike puts out decent firepower (with the Bolter beta rule as well). Three of them taken in single bike units seems perfect to fill out the Fast Attack slots in a Brigade.

Okay, so Rhinos with two Storm Bolters... The Rhino is still fairly overcosted, but 8 shots that don't care about moving and shooting (with the Bolter beta rule), while still carrying 10 dudes, doesn't seem to be total trash. Would love to hear if there has been any life breathed into the Rhino recently.

Dreadnoughts, I still find them to be over costed for what they do, especially since we can't take Venerable Dreads for that sweet 2+ BS. However at this point, a Twin-Las/Dread CCW Dreadnought is only slightly more expensive than a Twin-Las Razorback... But can actually hit stuff that threatens my back line.

Like all Marine (and BA) units, a lot of our stuff still seems too expensive for what it does. But have any of you found a place in your lists for Attack Bikes, Rhinos, and Dreadnoughts post CA: 2018?

New vanguard primaris doesn't really supplement BA. Supressors, eliminators and infiltrators will go to my casual gaming lists, but comp? No. At 2k both supressors and eliminators are cheap enough for brigade but that's that.

One thing I started thinking is that we play 1,5k maelstorm mostly, so I might even test to deploy the librarian and reivers (now with phobos keyword) up front in cover and if I get the first turn I'll try to make the corridor psychic power to move again so it's one shot suicide unit possibly scoring an early objective. Deploy 9" away from the enemy line, move and then move again and advance. I should have a chance to reach that objective and give my other army a short rest while my enemy ravages the reiver squad from that objective. Scouts are speed bumbs why not try to give a speed bumb in the enemy deployment T1.. This will be very situational for sure, but something I'll try out.

Xirax wrote:
New vanguard primaris doesn't really supplement BA. Supressors, eliminators and infiltrators will go to my casual gaming lists, but comp? No. At 2k both supressors and eliminators are cheap enough for brigade but that's that.

The only thing I am considering is taking the LT / Librarian and making them my WLT with the +1 to move, advance and charge rolls and pair this with a 12-15 aggressors supported with our fnp banner. With this trait aggressors are deceptively fast (10.5" on average^^)