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2019/08/12 16:34:45
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Sterling191 wrote: And I am understandably delighted to be wrong. Cheers folks.
Hats to you ser for yer Sportmanship.
Martel732 wrote:It's GW rule interpretation of a product not released. Mistakes will be made.
Indeed. Plus I'm (for better or worse) notoriously literal when it comes to reading anything rules related that comes out of GW. If it doesnt explicitly say you can do it, I'm going to assume you cant until proven otherwise.
Gives me some hope (I know, I know, totally dangerous) that the PDF supplementals arent going to be more than just a few lines allowing non-codex chapters to access doctrines.
2019/08/12 20:19:40
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Literal is fine 90% of the time, but absurd readings can't be used. Like the 1+ armor thing or assault weapons *technically* not working the way we think.
2019/08/13 05:04:50
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
So with the new Chaplain in town (+2 charge) and drop pods being a thing anyone thinking of running 2-3 squads of death company and doing a turn 1 Alpha strike with 7" Charge distances with an insane amount of attacks?
2019/08/13 07:05:25
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
NexAddo wrote: So with the new Chaplain in town (+2 charge) and drop pods being a thing anyone thinking of running 2-3 squads of death company and doing a turn 1 Alpha strike with 7" Charge distances with an insane amount of attacks?
Sounds like awfully expensive way to get more than 1 squad doing 1st turn charge(one squad can do it even more reliably already). Especially since T1 you are often limited to charging screens anyway. Against some armies could be nasty(necrons for example struggle to screen that much) but vs others less so. Not sure how much orks for example worry about pods sending waves of death company vs grots. IG has infantry squads to absorb those. Other marines scouts or force you be 12" away. Tyranids have plenty cheap bodies etc. Eldars could worry a bit about that I guess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 07:07:13
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/08/13 07:54:13
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
tacticals is another option for the pods at +1A on the charge assuming we get that rule and a 7+ charge through the chaplain their reasonably effective at screen clearence and less of a pts investment and more flexible if you want to play the objective game.
Vs orks the value is cageing them 3 pods blocks a wave the contents blocks the next wave its T3 before they are really across the board
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 07:55:30
2019/08/13 07:59:58
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
NexAddo wrote: So with the new Chaplain in town (+2 charge) and drop pods being a thing anyone thinking of running 2-3 squads of death company and doing a turn 1 Alpha strike with 7" Charge distances with an insane amount of attacks?
Sounds very expensive points wise (~500 for two drop pods, two 9 model units of DC and the chaplain) to kill some chaff units. BA will get new rules as a free PDF download, i would wait for it, and see what changes. Maybe our JP units will be allowed T1 deepstrikes as well, with a stratagem, for more points ?
tneva82 wrote: Against some armies could be nasty(necrons for example struggle to screen that much) but vs others less so.
Necrons can screen pretty good with scarabs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
U02dah4 wrote: tacticals is another option for the pods at +1A on the charge assuming we get that rule and a 7+ charge through the chaplain their reasonably effective at screen clearence and less of a pts investment and more flexible if you want to play the objective game.
Vs orks the value is cageing them 3 pods blocks a wave the contents blocks the next wave its T3 before they are really across the board
I would prefer DC over tacs. They are worth the additional points. Orks dont care about caging them in, they will da jump out of it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 08:05:16
2019/08/13 08:05:17
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
U02dah4 wrote: tacticals is another option for the pods at +1A on the charge assuming we get that rule and a 7+ charge through the chaplain their reasonably effective at screen clearence and less of a pts investment and more flexible if you want to play the objective game.
Vs orks the value is cageing them 3 pods blocks a wave the contents blocks the next wave its T3 before they are really across the board
Except orks are primarily shooting with tellyporting boyz. In particular with new marines trying to walk across board is suicide. It was already before and more so now.
So ork deployment zone has plenty of grots to screen shooting units and that's about it. Whom you are going to cage? Lootas? They aren't coming out of dz anyway. Nor are grots before they have done their job of keeping assault elements out of their gunline.
And at worst you give them unit to hide from your guns. Pod can't move out of combat so enemy can use it to do benefit of tripoint with higher chance of doing it.
Which is more expensive screen than others and contend heavily with other FA choices(necrons struggle to have more than 1 det with their generally rather poor and expensive characters). Getting more than 1 unit of scarabs is tough and with 1 there's limit on how many you can screen. Especially if you don't want to be in super tight bubble which makes easier to box you in and make mess with tri pointing etc once you reach.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 08:08:19
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/08/13 08:38:04
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
I was suggesting podding the tacticals not walking them
Drop 2-3 pods 19-29 tacs + chaplain
Assuming storm bolter 46-68 BG shots
Backed up by 21 CC attacks from each tac squad that make it in to CC + chaplain
Frontline is then either tied up or dead and your tacs present an outer screen so the pods cant be easily charged so t1 they kill tacs and t2 pods but you have effectively boxed them.
Sure their are ways out for flying armies or if they get T1 but then you switch to dropping on objectives
Considering 2 tac filled and 1 DC (bg PS) filled pod (im taking 3 tac squads for CP anyway so its only 5 extra)
The pod doesnt really effect tri pointing if your marines are 8" away from it plus if they have caged your army they are going to be targetted any thing that survives is a bonus as it causes further delays
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 08:44:16
2019/08/13 09:12:39
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Which is more expensive screen than others and contend heavily with other FA choices(necrons struggle to have more than 1 det with their generally rather poor and expensive characters). Getting more than 1 unit of scarabs is tough and with 1 there's limit on how many you can screen. Especially if you don't want to be in super tight bubble which makes easier to box you in and make mess with tri pointing etc once you reach.
Necron scarabs are as point efficient as any other screen. A base has 3W, which is 4.33 pts per wound. I play crons, and its no problem to add 2x9 scarabs to a 3 detachment army at 2k, i even play 2x9 scarabs at 1.5k.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/13 09:13:34
2019/08/13 09:21:33
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
U02dah4 wrote: The pod doesnt really effect tri pointing if your marines are 8" away from it plus if they have caged your army they are going to be targetted any thing that survives is a bonus as it causes further delays
But caged WHAT? If you are talking about orks remember only units that care about being caged are either da jumping or tellyporting. They are coming OVER those pods. The units in ork deployment zones are stuff that won't move anywhere ANYWAY. They are mek guns(2" move...YEY! What a speedy guy!) or lootas which don't want to move generally anyway due to -1 to hit.
Ork boyz? Tellyporta or da jump so they don't care about being caged. Nobs? Likewise. Basically anything that wants into combat will not be there to begin with. They are in tellyporta or in some safe corner with plenty of LOS blocking terrain and some grots so your tac's won't be anywhere near and then they either charge you(if you are close enough) or da jump.
Caging against orks don't work because there's nothing to be caged. Don't think orks as army that tries to footslog into combat because they won't. That's been suicide ever since codex dropped(well 8th ed but before that orks had no alternative). Orks don't footslog. They come out of reserves just like your drop pods except rather than points they pay CP for it. Plus option to jump units around with da jump.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/08/13 10:03:51
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
I need some advice.
I have a small BA vanguard detachment, that comes along my guard army.
But now i want to move on to have a true BA army without others.
I have a captain, a sanguinary priest, 5 cataphractii terminators, 5 DC models, and 5 sanguinary guard.
I really like the SG and DC and want to build around them.
what to add?
I was thinking of something in line of this list:
Death Company [27 PL, 380pts]
Selections: Jump Pack [3 PL, 45pts]
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [17pts]
Bolt pistol and chainsword
Death Company Marine [33pts]
Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]
Death Company Marine [33pts]
Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]
Death Company Marine [33pts]
Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]
Death Company Marine [33pts]
Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]
Death Company Marine [33pts]
Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 83pts]
Selections: 6. Selfless Valour, Encarmine sword [12pts], Inferno pistol [7pts], Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord
Plan is to come down turn 2 with the complete vanguard detachment + captain and attack the biggest threats
Problem is that a want to deepstrike to much units and probably have to keep more behind (max 50% in deepstrike?)
What is my biggest weakness?
What should i change? Any suggestions?
How to move from this to a 2000 point list?
Thanks in advance!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 10:07:26
2019/08/13 10:08:30
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
U02dah4 wrote: The pod doesnt really effect tri pointing if your marines are 8" away from it plus if they have caged your army they are going to be targetted any thing that survives is a bonus as it causes further delays
But caged WHAT? If you are talking about orks remember only units that care about being caged are either da jumping or tellyporting. They are coming OVER those pods. The units in ork deployment zones are stuff that won't move anywhere ANYWAY. They are mek guns(2" move...YEY! What a speedy guy!) or lootas which don't want to move generally anyway due to -1 to hit.
Ork boyz? Tellyporta or da jump so they don't care about being caged. Nobs? Likewise. Basically anything that wants into combat will not be there to begin with. They are in tellyporta or in some safe corner with plenty of LOS blocking terrain and some grots so your tac's won't be anywhere near and then they either charge you(if you are close enough) or da jump.
Caging against orks don't work because there's nothing to be caged. Don't think orks as army that tries to footslog into combat because they won't. That's been suicide ever since codex dropped(well 8th ed but before that orks had no alternative). Orks don't footslog. They come out of reserves just like your drop pods except rather than points they pay CP for it. Plus option to jump units around with da jump.
I wasnt talking about orks specifically i dont build for them because well at the last major i went to there were two lists of orks and only one was competant meta wise i wont likely face them. However my points stands if I cant cage you play the objectives and even one pod of tacs can area deny a huge area
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 10:13:31
2019/08/13 10:42:28
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Hello brothers and sisters of Sanguinius, quick question. Do you guys think one of the new War Walkers or a second Redemptor is a better choice in a Primaris force of BAngels?
2019/08/13 11:55:20
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Hi all, reading further up the thread people seem to be assuming BA are going to be getting various of the new marine stuff including doctrines and access to various standard marine units.
Whilst I'm sure when we get our next codex we will gain some new stuff I believe the update PDF that has been mentioned will only be giving BA units Shock assault and adding the next vanguard marine units to our army list.
I'm hoping they alter our points to match the new marine one (not looking forward to 40pt thunder hammers) as they really should match. They should also give us chapter tactics on our vehicles but I don't see the point as I can't see them changing our chapter tactic.
Has anyone seen any actual information about it will contain as the only confirmed parts are Shock assault and vanguard units.
I need some advice.
I have a small BA vanguard detachment, that comes along my guard army.
But now i want to move on to have a true BA army without others.
Tiberius501 wrote:Hello brothers and sisters of Sanguinius, quick question. Do you guys think one of the new War Walkers or a second Redemptor is a better choice in a Primaris force of BAngels?
You should wait until the new free PDF BA rules come out, hopefully in the near future, around the time when the new codex SM is released next saturday.
2019/08/13 14:52:00
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
I need some advice.
I have a small BA vanguard detachment, that comes along my guard army.
But now i want to move on to have a true BA army without others.
Tiberius501 wrote:Hello brothers and sisters of Sanguinius, quick question. Do you guys think one of the new War Walkers or a second Redemptor is a better choice in a Primaris force of BAngels?
You should wait until the new free PDF BA rules come out, hopefully in the near future, around the time when the new codex SM is released next saturday.
Yeah that’s a fair call.
2019/08/13 15:31:53
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all, reading further up the thread people seem to be assuming BA are going to be getting various of the new marine stuff including doctrines and access to various standard marine units.
Whilst I'm sure when we get our next codex we will gain some new stuff I believe the update PDF that has been mentioned will only be giving BA units Shock assault and adding the next vanguard marine units to our army list.
I'm hoping they alter our points to match the new marine one (not looking forward to 40pt thunder hammers) as they really should match. They should also give us chapter tactics on our vehicles but I don't see the point as I can't see them changing our chapter tactic.
Has anyone seen any actual information about it will contain as the only confirmed parts are Shock assault and vanguard units.
This is my take on the matter as well and it sucks. Marines were already a better army than BA and now with the new dex it's eldar vs gk levels of disparity. I play BA, SW and DW so this triple hurts.
Chapter tactics on vehicles would be a double edged sword as it would apply to our dreads too so a shooting tactic would hurt my librarian (that I just finally got painted...)
All that being said it looks like my BA will be some sort of codex successor until GW gets their poop in a group.
2019/08/13 15:32:48
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all, reading further up the thread people seem to be assuming BA are going to be getting various of the new marine stuff including doctrines and access to various standard marine units.
Whilst I'm sure when we get our next codex we will gain some new stuff I believe the update PDF that has been mentioned will only be giving BA units Shock assault and adding the next vanguard marine units to our army list.
I'm hoping they alter our points to match the new marine one (not looking forward to 40pt thunder hammers) as they really should match. They should also give us chapter tactics on our vehicles but I don't see the point as I can't see them changing our chapter tactic.
Has anyone seen any actual information about it will contain as the only confirmed parts are Shock assault and vanguard units.
This is my take on the matter as well and it sucks. Marines were already a better army than BA and now with the new dex it's eldar vs gk levels of disparity. I play BA, SW and DW so this triple hurts.
Chapter tactics on vehicles would be a double edged sword as it would apply to our dreads too so a shooting tactic would hurt my librarian (that I just finally got painted...)
All that being said it looks like my BA will be some sort of codex successor until GW gets their poop in a group.
Chapter tactics already work on dreads
2019/08/13 16:22:42
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
That's my point. In the new marine codex they changed the traits to apply to infantry vs. vehicles. For example the Ravenguard lost -1 to hit on their dreads because their dreads now get treated like vehicles and get their vehicle version of the chapter tactic.
If they do this for BA our chapter tactic will either be trash for shooting vehicles or will be trash for our melee dreads unless GW is very careful about the wording of the vehicle tactic.
2019/08/14 06:11:29
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
You can give your intercessors a free 30" grenade launcher, and the sarge can get a free chainsword. You are losing the BS 2+ on your captains when you dont give them a ranged weapon. A combi plasma allows them to overcharge and fire twice after deepstriking, re-rolling 1s. They do nothing when they fail their charge. You are not really taking advantage of red thirst, not many melee units in your list. Your long range dakka dreads would benefit more from a different chapter. Not many anti tank weapons in your list. Twin AC is only S7, not good against T7-8. Techmarine on bike with SB gets 8 bolter shots at 24", and he hits on 2+.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 06:34:11
2019/08/14 06:40:21
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
You can give your intercessors a free 30" grenade launcher, and the sarge can get a free chainsword. You are losing the BS 2+ on your captains when you dont give them a ranged weapon. A combi plasma allows them to overcharge and fire twice after deepstriking, re-rolling 1s. They do nothing when they fail their charge. You are not really taking advantage of red thirst, not many melee units in your list. Your long range dakka dreads would benefit more from a different chapter. Not many anti tank weapons in your list. Twin AC is only S7, not good against T7-8. Techmarine on bike with SB gets 8 bolter shots at 24", and he hits on 2+.
Right, grenade launchers for the squads and chainswords for the Sergeants are vital, same goes for a shooty weapon for the Captains.
The army is not really geared towards cc, but playing another chapter is not an option.
My experience is that S7 is quite good against most armies. So I'll leave it. Sometimes the number of shots is decisive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/14 06:41:04
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all, reading further up the thread people seem to be assuming BA are going to be getting various of the new marine stuff including doctrines and access to various standard marine units.
Whilst I'm sure when we get our next codex we will gain some new stuff I believe the update PDF that has been mentioned will only be giving BA units Shock assault and adding the next vanguard marine units to our army list.
I'm hoping they alter our points to match the new marine one (not looking forward to 40pt thunder hammers) as they really should match. They should also give us chapter tactics on our vehicles but I don't see the point as I can't see them changing our chapter tactic.
Has anyone seen any actual information about it will contain as the only confirmed parts are Shock assault and vanguard units.
Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels:
Captain in Phobos Armour
Librarian in Phobos Armour
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour
Eliminator Squad
Incursor Squad
Infiltrator Squad
Suppressor Squad
Invictor Tactical Warsuit
Impulsor
Primaris Repulsor Executioner
That's exact list blood angels(and the 2 other) are going to get. GW was kind enough to let us know in advance what units others get
The full datasheets and matched play points values for each of these units will soon be available as a free PDF download for each of these Chapters, along with the rules for the Shock Assault ability.* Essentially, if you collect one of these Chapters, you can still pick up Codex: Space Marines for all the expanded lore, background and aforementioned datasheets, but you don’t need it to add the new units to your collection and use them in battle – your codex is still fully functional!
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/08/14 06:58:15
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Right, grenade launchers for the squads and chainswords for the Sergeants are vital, same goes for a shooty weapon for the Captains.
The army is not really geared towards cc, but playing another chapter is not an option.
My experience is that S7 is quite good against most armies. So I'll leave it. Sometimes the number of shots is decisive.
Ok, but be aware of deepstrikers charging your rifledreads. Some kind of screen would be nice. Maybe a unit of infiltrators who have a 12" deepstrike deny bubble ?
2019/08/14 07:47:52
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Right, grenade launchers for the squads and chainswords for the Sergeants are vital, same goes for a shooty weapon for the Captains.
The army is not really geared towards cc, but playing another chapter is not an option.
My experience is that S7 is quite good against most armies. So I'll leave it. Sometimes the number of shots is decisive.
Ok, but be aware of deepstrikers charging your rifledreads. Some kind of screen would be nice. Maybe a unit of infiltrators who have a 12" deepstrike deny bubble ?
When I get to larger pt levels, I'll take this into account.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.
Reference those against the errata pdf. If it’s not changed in the latter than BA are still stuck with the old costs. This has happened for multiple units.
Yes, it’s fething idiotic.
2019/08/17 21:24:36
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
