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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

They did miss on more things. The baal predator is still the most useless tank in the entire imperium. Its expensive, has short range flamers, has a stratagem which allows it to advance D6+6", but then it cant fire its short range flamers (which would be in range), because they are heavy weapons The terminator captain is still useless as well. And guess what, both models are in the new BA battleforce box
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Our biggest problem is that our only ignore overwatch ability is on a relic so our melee relics dont really matter since getting there alive is most important. And most of our other characters are named or a dreadnought so cant take relics either.

Wish we could have gotten an extra trait or psychic power to deny overwatch. We only have 1 good warlord trait and its useless against armies that dont have 4w or 10w+ models. If we didnt have to get that relic first due to having deny overwatch as a WL trait I would take hammer of baal sometimes.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Whilst I agree that our WL traits are a bit naff there are a couple of OKish ones. Heroic Intervention 6" is useful as is the 6+ FNP that stacks with black rage.

Our special characters are good but have generally bad WL traits and do restrict who can have relics, I usually end up with the standard on either a Sang or Termy ancient and perhaps the regen CP or new reroll charges one on a sang priest.

40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore

What do you guys think about running Incursors over scouts? They're more expensive, but they're more durable, ignore modifiers, and have better melee for that 9" turn 1 charge against screens.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I never really liked scouts at 11 ppm. I'd go with the incursors.
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Competitive gaming question:

What do you who play more competitive games think, can you use a pure Blood Angels list without proper heavy support. My list drafts seem to be be dual batallion with vanguard and occasional heavy/assbacks. Can we endure the first turn without long range firepower and try to smash things and hoard the board with troops. I'm troubled if we can bypass heavy section with our punchy SG/DC/smash cpt/smash other characters like Astaroth/Mephiston.

I'll definitely give a go for dual battalion + SG ancient, SG, DC, but I if more comp list show up, I'll just lose. What's your take?

In my understanding the current (SM)meta is very devastator centric, it would mean atleast some eliminators.. With the points drops all aroud in my gaming area we are settling to 1,5k points margin. I need the damn CP, so dual battalion feels a must and after that, it's not much more you can bring unless you skip primaris troops as a whole.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Xirax wrote:
Competitive gaming question:

What do you who play more competitive games think, can you use a pure Blood Angels list without proper heavy support. My list drafts seem to be be dual batallion with vanguard and occasional heavy/assbacks. Can we endure the first turn without long range firepower and try to smash things and hoard the board with troops. I'm troubled if we can bypass heavy section with our punchy SG/DC/smash cpt/smash other characters like Astaroth/Mephiston.

I'll definitely give a go for dual battalion + SG ancient, SG, DC, but I if more comp list show up, I'll just lose. What's your take?

In my understanding the current (SM)meta is very devastator centric, it would mean atleast some eliminators.. With the points drops all aroud in my gaming area we are settling to 1,5k points margin. I need the damn CP, so dual battalion feels a must and after that, it's not much more you can bring unless you skip primaris troops as a whole.


Pure BA don't do heavy support well, I think you have three general options.

1: Pure BA, screw taking any long range firepower and commit to an alpha and a beta strike planning for one to work and if both do you are golden.
2. Pure BA, use an alpha or a beta strike (first turn depending) and go with some light long range support options that can clear screens from safety. Whirlwinds aren't great but can do this job as can various forgeworld options.
3. If you want some proper heavy support then bring in some specialists, take a contingent of BA for drop assault and then take some Imperial fists or other marines who gain decent bonuses with long ranged guns.

I think option 3 is the most competitive is that your main goal. A big block of Sang guard with character support backed up by either Imperial fist thunderfire cannons or Iron hands character dreads (perhaps both) will get the job done.

40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Agree.

Loading up on heavy support and facing a gun line have mostly been my 500-700pts shoot at their 2000pts and kill 200pts of stuff and then their whole army shoots and wipe out my heavy support since I didnt hide it unlike the rest of my guys who are waiting for reinforcements from the skies.

If lucky I wound some tanks or units but whats the point if I have to finish it off in melee anyway. So much wish we had access to tfcs to help remove screens.

We kill tough stuff effectively in CC and should focus on that. Trying to make up a weakness, lack of range firepower, with something we are weak with isnt gonna work.

But a detachment with ignore cover/Master Artisan TFCs and eliminators to handle screens and annoying characters until we can get our guys in melee I think is gonna be the strongest way to build a primarily BA force. Gonna try that out and have them be RG successor and run a phobos Librarian or JP librarian who can cast the deny overwatch and - 1 to hit power on the enemy or if 0 another melee army get might of heroes, null zone or tenebreous curse. Would really help with covering up our weaknesses
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

BA can soup with vanilla SM and neither loses doctrines. If you want vehicle support go with IH.
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





I know it's very occasional when you get the first turn, but killshot and devastator doctrine with your smash captain waiting to get UWoF might be our best mono shooting. But for sure IH techmarine, executioner/redemptors more comp for sure.

I'll try a dakka pred, autocannon & las and quad las triplets and see how they'll fare. Even the dakka version clocking at 145p throw 2d3 flat 4 damage shots Ap-2 and +1 to wound with 6 heavy bolter shots -2ap flat 2 damage. Should do some serious damage on a primaris unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 11:55:01


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lmao that's great on the dakka preds. I dont have any for blood angels but have had a lot of success with wolves when I used that strat. 3 predators and 3 vindicators start on the table... which are you going to shoot at?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Keep in mind Kill Shot only functions if you're firing at a vehicle or monster. It sadly wont turn the dakka pred into a primaris liquifier
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





That's sadly true, well primaris or not. Maybe still worth trying.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Stus67 wrote:
What do you guys think about running Incursors over scouts? They're more expensive, but they're more durable, ignore modifiers, and have better melee for that 9" turn 1 charge against screens.

I haven't tried them yet but I really like the look of Incursors. They are not a powerhouse unit but they are Troops, are under 100 points for a 5-man unit and they are pretty decent at both shooting and melee for the points. I definitely plan to get a couple of squads to try out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xirax wrote:
What do you who play more competitive games think, can you use a pure Blood Angels list without proper heavy support. My list drafts seem to be be dual batallion with vanguard and occasional heavy/assbacks. Can we endure the first turn without long range firepower and try to smash things and hoard the board with troops.

I have found BAs to do very well with pure-infantry lists. This has the handy advantage of denying my opponent good targets for his anti-tank weapons. For this reason I tend to rely on infantry-heavy weapons. I normally run a Dev squad and some Plasma Inceptors. They can be a bit squishy but they tend to last well as people get distracted by the DC/SG and assorted beatstick characters hurtling towards their lines.

Phobos units also provide some options. Eliminators with Las Fusils actually out-perform Lascannon Devs point-for-point on anti-tank. Give the Sergent the cheap bolter and then he can buff your Las Fusil shots and the whole squad can retreat if they get charged. It makes them surprisingly effective at screening. The other interesting option is the new Invictor warsuit. Technically this breaks my "no-vehicle" policy. But dumping a T6 redemptor with a super heavy flamer 9" from my opponent's lines makes for a very tasty distraction-carnifex and if it survives, it can certainly punch hard-enough to kill dangerous targets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 20:49:40


I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





Sticksville, Texas

One thing I have been incredibly excited about since BA got doctrines, is Missile Launcher Devs again.

When I was playing more often, my three Dev squads with three Missile Launchers and a Cherub around a Company Ancient with our relic banner has done absolute work for me. The added AP on the Frag and Krak profiles in Devastator Doctrine makes me even happier to field them.

My biggest issue to delivering my melee units has been chaff, and while the number of shots can be somewhat unreliable, Frag Missiles with AP-1 will be great for breaking open screens from 48" away.

Really interested to see how my Brigade plays next time I field them.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Devs + Ancient with Relic Banner are quite nice. You can buff further with both Captain and Lt but now also with Chaplain Litanies (another rule we have picked up).

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Took Astorath and another chaplain in a game last night and proceeded to fail the 3+ Litany roll any time it actually mattered. Chaplains may be too unreliable to plan around...



   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

@Voidwraith You're spot on. Now you really need to keep a CP for the key one. And as you know it still won't always work.

I think after a while we'll all settle back in to the usual choices for our HQ.
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Astorath has it's uses even without succesful litany and you get to try them before you uwof him or drop your dc your DC or such on the table. But yeah, 1's do happen (in this case 2's too..)

I'm yet to try out the triple dakka pred killshot, but other stuff is dual bat with some incursors to boobytrap central objectives, cot smash, mephy, astorath, SG, SG ancient and jumpy DC. For fourth HQ I'm thinking between jumpy hammer lieutenant to reroll those ones for T1, jumpy sang priest and lib dread. Well needs actual play.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Voidwraith wrote:
Took Astorath and another chaplain in a game last night and proceeded to fail the 3+ Litany roll any time it actually mattered. Chaplains may be too unreliable to plan around...

I think Lemartes will still be the default option for anyone running DC as he still provides rerolls to charge and to hit (the crucial ones). Any litanies he gets off are a bonus. Mantra of Hate looksjuivy considering Lemmy's a pretty hardcore beatstick already.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

With chapter approved and Blood of Baal in hand here is my first try at a list with the new points and tricks.

I recon its about 150pts down on what it would have been pre CA2019

Two battalions and a spearhead for 14 CP.

Lemartes
Sanguinor
Mephiston
Captain - JP, SS, TH
Sanguinary Priest - JP
Ven Chaplain Dread - Twin Lascannon, DCCW, Stormbolter
5 scouts - Knives
5 scouts - Knives
5 Scouts - Bolters
5 Scouts - Bolters
5 Scours - Snipers
5 Scouts - Snipers
15 Death Company - JPs, 2 Power Axe, 2 Power Fist, TH
10 Sanguinary Guard - 6 Swords, 3 Axe, powerfist
Sanguinary Ancient - Powerfist
3 Eliminators - Snipers
Whirlwind - Castellan
Whirlwind - Castallan

Plan is to deploy scouts out of LOS as much as possible to protect the characters.
Whirlwinds and snipers for screen clearing and character hunting.
Two melee bricks, I've enough CP to send them both in early as needed.
The characters generally move as a block other than the ancient (warlord) who sticks with the SG and Lemartes who stay with the DC.

It let's me use my two favourite units and all the lovely characters BA have got access to. We play on nice terrain heavy boards most of the time, I understand this would very much struggle going second on a sparse board.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/09 13:15:03


40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Still scouts?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Maybe replace the Chaplain Dread with 3 single attack bikes and you can turn this into a Brigade for even more juicy CPs.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




You'd be losing an untargetable twin las cannon to gain one CP, I don't think that's worth it.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Martel732 wrote:Still scouts?

The scout are really key to how the list works. They set up mid table and (hopefully out of LOS) and thus protect all the characters for fire by being the closest models.
Also they are the cheapest, I've gone for double battalion purely for the CP to fuel the rest of the list, if the scouts can pull off a juicy first turn charge then great but they are just really there as bullet catchers.
Infiltrators and Incursers could do similar jobs but for double the points, they are harder to remove but not hugely so and would be a waste here I think.

Karhedron wrote:Maybe replace the Chaplain Dread with 3 single attack bikes and you can turn this into a Brigade for even more juicy CPs.


Hobby Hammer wrote:You'd be losing an untargetable twin las cannon to gain one CP, I don't think that's worth it.


This list mainly relies on combat to deal with bigger threats but the chaplain dread let's me reach out and put a couple of reliable hits on something if I really need to. Plus hes a monster in combat and I can use the reroll 1s nearby strat to help out my other back field units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/10 07:32:54


40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I find scouts to be a poor value for 11 pts. Not all tables have places to hide, but just cover.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Martel732 wrote:
I find scouts to be a poor value for 11 pts. Not all tables have places to hide, but just cover.


Sounds that the area you are playing in isnt using enough terrain. In which case BA isnt gonna be doing well anyway if pure gunlines are guaranteed to get los on everything from the start. Then its all about having the best gunline.

I think scouts are our best troops just because they are the cheapest. I mainly field only 3 scout squads and 3 intercessors squads to have some variety and think it looks and feels cooler than pure scouts and they arent much worse. I would never go 0 scouts but can and do make lists with 0 non scout troops.
   
Made in no
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






I can say that playing vs SM scout, in the right hands, are the trickle of points that wins you game.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




What do you guys think about the Sanguinor, whit the new improvements and at 130p I am tempted to add it to my force

   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Babar_babar wrote:
What do you guys think about the Sanguinor, whit the new improvements and at 130p I am tempted to add it to my force



I'm painting mine up as I type, had it since the model was released :-)

I think that he's come down in points enough to make him a good choice, My issue was always that he didn't do enough damage himself for his points compared to a smash captain but hes now cheaper than a smash captain, has an amazing aura and their are a couple of extra strats that work well with him now.

40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
 
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