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My FLGS's rep didn't have his crap together, so I haven't been able to pick up my copy of Blood of Baal as of yet, so...question:

Can a Librarian Dreadnought take the Adamantine Mantle special issue wargear? A libby dread running/flying around with a 5+ FnP on top of having the new 1/2 damage strat feels pretty amazing.

I'm having a really hard time deciding which HQs to take...so many good options.

Am I the only one thinking that the points nerf for inferno pistols up to 9 points is quite hilarious.

About scouts.. two squads are same as infiltrators and 10 models create a bigger anti-DS bubble to your backline than infiltrators. They can be charged for sure, but as area denial usage I prefer scouts.

I was wondering how the Vanguard Marines might work in a BA list. Much hardier than Scouts, but still able to give us a bit of board control til the close assault guys dive in. How are they at clearing chaff and would a Start Collecting box be worthwhile? I'm also kinda keen on giving the sneaky dreadNot a try, just as something to get stuck in straight away.
Thinking we could just send wave after wave of guys at enemies, tying them up and whittling them down until the 3rd turn where theres a big surge and absolute carnage.

Klickor wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I find scouts to be a poor value for 11 pts. Not all tables have places to hide, but just cover.

Sounds that the area you are playing in isnt using enough terrain. In which case BA isnt gonna be doing well anyway if pure gunlines are guaranteed to get los on everything from the start. Then its all about having the best gunline.

I think scouts are our best troops just because they are the cheapest. I mainly field only 3 scout squads and 3 intercessors squads to have some variety and think it looks and feels cooler than pure scouts and they arent much worse. I would never go 0 scouts but can and do make lists with 0 non scout troops.

Not all terrain is LOS blocking. I frequently play on boards filled with terrain, but not much LOS blocking. That's a legitimate set up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

craggy wrote:
I was wondering how the Vanguard Marines might work in a BA list. Much hardier than Scouts, but still able to give us a bit of board control til the close assault guys dive in. How are they at clearing chaff and would a Start Collecting box be worthwhile? I'm also kinda keen on giving the sneaky dreadNot a try, just as something to get stuck in straight away.
Thinking we could just send wave after wave of guys at enemies, tying them up and whittling them down until the 3rd turn where theres a big surge and absolute carnage.

I don't like paying 11 pts for a 4+, so I think there is definitely value there.

After playing a few games with Incursors and Scouts together I think they both definitely have their place and value, but I'm thinking that the Phobos bois get you more bang for your buck in pure BA since I'm not really looking for the cheapest battalions. Incursors holding the front lines and getting off early charges have given me better chaff clearing results than Scouts doing the same thing, and they're way more annoying for my opponent to remove after. Popping transhuman on a squad of them is hilarious when they're in the middle of my opponent's army.

I haven't played with Infiltrators yet, but I think basic Intercessors or Scouts do their job of mid-field objective holding better.

Voidwraith wrote:My FLGS's rep didn't have his crap together, so I haven't been able to pick up my copy of Blood of Baal as of yet, so...question:

Can a Librarian Dreadnought take the Adamantine Mantle special issue wargear? A libby dread running/flying around with a 5+ FnP on top of having the new 1/2 damage strat feels pretty amazing.

I'm having a really hard time deciding which HQs to take...so many good options.

I'm afraid you can't give the mantle or any of the special issue wargear to a libby dread, it specifically calls out that they cannot be given to vehicles.



On the troop conversation, the new phobos marines are certainly tougher but cost twice as much. They give better firepower but now twice the firepower (if the scouts have bolters) and certainly don't fight better than two scouts. Lastly scouts make it easier to fill up detachment slots thus give more CP which we really need.

The new primaris all have their place, intercessors especially, but I think the scouts are still the top troop option overall.

 WisdomLS wrote:

I'm afraid you can't give the mantle or any of the special issue wargear to a libby dread, it specifically calls out that they cannot be given to vehicles.



On the troop conversation, the new phobos marines are certainly tougher but cost twice as much. They give better firepower but now twice the firepower (if the scouts have bolters) and certainly don't fight better than two scouts. Lastly scouts make it easier to fill up detachment slots thus give more CP which we really need.

The new primaris all have their place, intercessors especially, but I think the scouts are still the top troop option overall.

It all comes down to what you need the troops to do. For forward deployed lads, Scouts are offensive, Incursors are defensive, and Infiltrators are there to feth with deep strikers.

 WisdomLS wrote:

Voidwraith wrote:My FLGS's rep didn't have his crap together, so I haven't been able to pick up my copy of Blood of Baal as of yet, so...question:

Can a Librarian Dreadnought take the Adamantine Mantle special issue wargear? A libby dread running/flying around with a 5+ FnP on top of having the new 1/2 damage strat feels pretty amazing.

I'm having a really hard time deciding which HQs to take...so many good options.

I'm afraid you can't give the mantle or any of the special issue wargear to a libby dread, it specifically calls out that they cannot be given to vehicles.

Thanks. Keeps me from thinking about this all day until I get my copy of the book tonight.

Sterling191 wrote:

 WisdomLS wrote:

I'm afraid you can't give the mantle or any of the special issue wargear to a libby dread, it specifically calls out that they cannot be given to vehicles.



On the troop conversation, the new phobos marines are certainly tougher but cost twice as much. They give better firepower but now twice the firepower (if the scouts have bolters) and certainly don't fight better than two scouts. Lastly scouts make it easier to fill up detachment slots thus give more CP which we really need.

The new primaris all have their place, intercessors especially, but I think the scouts are still the top troop option overall.

It all comes down to what you need the troops to do. For forward deployed lads, Scouts are offensive, Incursors are defensive, and Infiltrators are there to feth with deep strikers.

I would say Incursors are definitely more offensive than they are defensive, but I guess you could play them as both. Infiltrators are too expensive for just a deepstrike denial.

 Stus67 wrote:

I would say Incursors are definitely more offensive than they are defensive, but I guess you could play them as both. Infiltrators are too expensive for just a deepstrike denial.

Not compared to Scouts. Point for point the latter kill waaaaaaaay more. You take Incursors if you want to hold a point long enough for your main line to move up in support.

Infiltrators have hands down the best deepstrike denial in the game, and hard counter armies like Tyranids or GSC trying to do close-in deepstrike shenanigans.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:

I would say Incursors are definitely more offensive than they are defensive, but I guess you could play them as both. Infiltrators are too expensive for just a deepstrike denial.

Not compared to Scouts. Point for point the latter kill waaaaaaaay more. You take Incursors if you want to hold a point long enough for your main line to move up in support.

Infiltrators have hands down the best deepstrike denial in the game, and hard counter armies like Tyranids or GSC trying to do close-in deepstrike shenanigans.

My last opponent was very bummed out that I had infiltrators on the board when he was trying to place his Calidus Assassin.

Sometimes the special rules are worth it.

 Voidwraith wrote:

Sometimes the special rules are worth it.

This is precisely why I run a phobos captain in my marine lists. That one model screws up an exceptional amount of deployment shenanigans.

Can a Librarian Dread use either Adamantine Mantle or Artificer Armour? Has these been faqued??

Scouts also give up hella ITC points.

I was thinking of running base marines as my troop choices for blood Angel's, they may not be the most "point efficient " unit but they can go in drop pods which protects them until you place them in double tap range t1 ot t2 (t2 preferred, t1 if needed). I am just tired of seeing scouts in my lists and primaris are just too slow / expensive for what they would be doing in an alpha assault style force. And I was taking a drop pod anyways, easiest way to get the sanguinary priest up within range of the t1 death company assault squad, otherwise it would have to wait until t2. It seems to me at least that blood Angel's want to be in your face t1.

No, t1 is too early

Using Droppods turn 1, 2 or even 3 is very dependant one your opponent, what they are fielding and how they have deployed.

Thats the main benefit of a droppod, it gives you the choice and gives you opponent more to think about.

What would be your go to smaslibby post PA3, Dread or Mephiston?

Azuza001 wrote:
I was thinking of running base marines as my troop choices for blood Angel's, they may not be the most "point efficient " unit but they can go in drop pods which protects them until you place them in double tap range t1 ot t2 (t2 preferred, t1 if needed). I am just tired of seeing scouts in my lists and primaris are just too slow / expensive for what they would be doing in an alpha assault style force. And I was taking a drop pod anyways, easiest way to get the sanguinary priest up within range of the t1 death company assault squad, otherwise it would have to wait until t2. It seems to me at least that blood Angel's want to be in your face t1.

End of the day, as much as we like the stabby stabby, we're still marines with lots of decent dakka. I'd definitely think to take advantage of that.

Babar_babar wrote:
What would be your go to smaslibby post PA3, Dread or Mephiston?

There is no clear answer (which is good) but I lean towards mephiston.

The main advantage of the dread is that it does a flat 3 damage, which is a good advantage. Mephi puts out a couple more attacks but of less power.

Resilience wise the dread has a little more T and wounds which is good but mephi has a batter save, FNP 5+++ and importantly can claim cover easier and is small thus easier to hide behind LOS blocking if needed.

They can both cast 2, mephi can deny one more and knows one more - definitely winning here..... but the dread can have the new relic to give him re-rolls and extra range which is very good.


Personally I prefer mephi's defensive profile and the INFANTRY keyword is alot more useful than being a VEHICLE. I don't want to spend a relic slot on the dread to make him a better psycher, we have too many other good relics to take. He's worse in combat against high wound targets but I have other options for that and he's better against smaller things.

Klickor wrote:
Our biggest problem is that our only ignore overwatch ability is on a relic so our melee relics dont really matter since getting there alive is most important. And most of our other characters are named or a dreadnought so cant take relics either.

Wish we could have gotten an extra trait or psychic power to deny overwatch. We only have 1 good warlord trait and its useless against armies that dont have 4w or 10w+ models. If we didnt have to get that relic first due to having deny overwatch as a WL trait I would take hammer of baal sometimes.

Can take an Inquisitor for that in a psychic power if you want one that badly. :-) Doesn't even negate Doctrines or any of that jazz, these days.

 Maakeff wrote:

Klickor wrote:
Our biggest problem is that our only ignore overwatch ability is on a relic so our melee relics dont really matter since getting there alive is most important. And most of our other characters are named or a dreadnought so cant take relics either.

Wish we could have gotten an extra trait or psychic power to deny overwatch. We only have 1 good warlord trait and its useless against armies that dont have 4w or 10w+ models. If we didnt have to get that relic first due to having deny overwatch as a WL trait I would take hammer of baal sometimes.

Can take an Inquisitor for that in a psychic power if you want one that badly. :-) Doesn't even negate Doctrines or any of that jazz, these days.

Tried finding the rule for it but had a hard time doing it. Does the spell target the charging model or the target? Huge difference since its easy to buff from behind but having a model on foot keep up and debuff the enemy is much harder to get range and also way easier to deny.

The spell is terrify, easy to cast. You target an enemy unit they lose 1 ld and cant fire overwatch. The advantage is because it's an inquisitor you can put him in a vehicle like a drop pod and drop him in where you need him t1. Think it's an 18" range as well.

Azuza001 wrote:
The spell is terrify, easy to cast. You target an enemy unit they lose 1 ld and cant fire overwatch. The advantage is because it's an inquisitor you can put him in a vehicle like a drop pod and drop him in where you need him t1. Think it's an 18" range as well.

Maybe. Might try it out but I have noting worth putting in a pod so doubling his price doesnt seem worth it though. 55pts and get a CP on opponents strats is worth a shot at least. With a good run move he might be able to get it off turn 1

You can always take an inquisitor in terminator armour.
He gets innate deepstrike, isnt to bad in combat with a thunderhammer and decent number of attacks, is quite hard to kill and can take a cheap psycannon.

 WisdomLS wrote:
You can always take an inquisitor in terminator armour.
He gets innate deepstrike, isnt to bad in combat with a thunderhammer and decent number of attacks, is quite hard to kill and can take a cheap psycannon.

But he is expensive and cant get cp farming trait. Dont need more mediocre beatsticks.

Should have been an Inquisitor inbetween the 2. Or at least make the terminator one generic and not forced to be malleus.
Weird decision.

So I hit upon something kinda fun we can do with Slamguinius Captains.

Normal Captain + Thunder Hammer shenanigans. I have opted to not run the storm shield since they just make a character that is basically a space marine shaped ICBM tac-nuke slightly more survivable. No need to improve the invulnerable save by 1 for the points jump especially after the thunder hammer point hike to bring BA back in line with the other space marine books.

Now, the fun part.

Make the captain a Hero of the Chapter and give him the Master Crafted trait, making his hammer +1 damage and a Chapter Relic, but not a Relic of Baal (As far as I can tell), and then give him the Artisan of War warlord trait for another +1 damage on the hammer, making it D:5 per swing. I believe there's another new strat that gives a weapon +1 damage on top of that for one phase. So you could, in theory, have a flat D:6 hammer for one round.

You could murder damn near anything he touches provided it doesn't have a 3++ or something but even then, any failed wounds would still hurt badly.

Personally, I prefer having the Angel's Wing in most instances, but this is a pretty cool option if you're looking for maximum smash.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Are you sure master-crafting a weapon doesn't make it a relic? If I were a TO, I think I would say it is.. well needs a FAQ.

My initial post was about supressors. For 90p we get a mobile platform, deepstruck if neccesary to scrape that one model of a infantry unit to deny overwatch. I want to have more primaris along with my old school BA models and this might be something worthy for having in your toolbox, even one squad because the range of those autocannons are so massive. What do you think?

Suppressors are really good.

Xirax wrote:
Are you sure master-crafting a weapon doesn't make it a relic? If I were a TO, I think I would say it is.. well needs a FAQ.

My initial post was about supressors. For 90p we get a mobile platform, deepstruck if neccesary to scrape that one model of a infantry unit to deny overwatch. I want to have more primaris along with my old school BA models and this might be something worthy for having in your toolbox, even one squad because the range of those autocannons are so massive. What do you think?

I own six on sprue and will be building them up once I finish my Sanguinary Guard off. I love the concept of them and can't wait to get them tabletop ready. Their utility in being both overwatch denial and just solid long range shooting is excellent.

As for the needing a FAQ, I don't disagree, and it might work as you said and counting as a chapter relic rules out artisan of war. That said, it's a good option to bring a second Character with a 4 damage thunder hammer to the game.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-