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I lean towards a single Hammer in my DC units, keeps the cost down whilst still letting me hurt big stuff until the last model is gone.
My DC are usually there as infantry killers and chainswords and bolters usually get the job done well enough. A couple of fists are useful and don't lose you any bolters.

How do you all handle chaff in gw missions?

I’ve been having fun running 18 DC with a libi and a sang priest in drop pods, 2 hammers in each squad, and lemartes starts on the table.
Turn one if Canticles of hate goes off for the +2” charge aura, I wings of fire lemi into place and drop the pods down. All the DC have a +3” rerollable charge.

Throw in unleash rage from the lib, quake bolts on the priest, refusal to die, and trans human, and they become a big thorn in your opponents face

The setup also lets you bypass those pesky 12” reserve bubbles from alpha legion or new marines. Since the drop pods are the only think arriving as reinforcements they land 12.1” out then the units disembark to 9.1”. Lemi can’t charge but hit auras still reach.

A drop pod + 10 guys is only 35 points more than 10DC with jump packs. And the turn one drop is really nice. I think even a single pod like this could be viable

Nukz4you wrote:
I’ve been having fun running 18 DC with a libi and a sang priest in drop pods, 2 hammers in each squad, and lemartes starts on the table.
Turn one if Canticles of hate goes off for the +2” charge aura, I wings of fire lemi into place and drop the pods down. All the DC have a +3” rerollable charge.

I'm sorry, but the aura doesn't stack with our +1 to charge. It's mentioned within the chaplain prayer description.

Must have missed that even still at +2 it’s a 7” rerollable. Which is pretty reliable.

Martel732 wrote:
How do you all handle chaff in gw missions?

Depends entirely on the mission in question. You're unlikely to have the firepower to chew through 100+ GEQs in a turn but I rarely find that I need to. In GW missions you'll often need to remove some specific chaff from objectives rather than just indiscriminately mowing guys down and any decent BA army should have the firepower to kill 30 GEQ a turn if needed. In Maelstrom missions you can tailor your deck a bit more to your opponent and I often find when I'm heavily outnumbered that taking any of the Secure or Defend objectives is a bad idea as you're too likely to end up with a hand of bad cards you can't achieve.

Alternatively you just ignore them and kill the dangerous stuff first. Sure, GEQs can put out a lot of firepower but it's rarely concentrated fire as that many models struggle to bring their weapons to bear against the same target. BA are still easily capable of taking enough firepower to deal with tanks, monsters and the like without reducing their close combat punch too much. I think concentrating too much on killing chaff is often a mistake because that's exactly what your opponent wants. Kill the things that can kill you first and deal with the chaff later.

For me killing chaff isn't an issue, my deathcompany, sang guard and terminators all pack bolters that can happily pick up infantry plus the sheer weight of attacks we bring in combat (DC especially) make short work of them.

For me dealing with tough targets at range is the main issue, sure if we can get to them in assault we can tear most things apart but all our ranged weapons seem a bit lacking when we could just take the same thing but better in a Space Marine detachment.

The things I like for ranged support are whirlwinds (you need some LOS ignoring shooting), forgeworld dreads of all stripes, predators and Deveastators. None of these feel hugely efficient and taking enough to be reliable is alot of points so I often just double down on choppy stuff.

I have being using both scouts and Incursors, to clear chaf early in the game. I usually, play 2 units of each both to fill battalions, early obj graving and chaf clearing.

Combining shooting and melee a unit of combat knife scouts average 7.5 cultist dead / 6.2 guards dead and a unit of incursors 10.6 /8.9. Not bad for 55p & 95p

What Slipspace said is spot on. You don't have to clear all the chaff just the right chaff.

I tend to run a double battalion with incursors, intercessors(x4) and I'm waiting on my infiltrators coming soon so that I can turn 10 of my intercesors into DC. I usually run a mix of bolt weapons.

That gives me 40 bolter shots a turn min from just my troops and seems to be enough for me.

Just considering having a second chaplain within a transport. And I am wondering if it would be that useful.

Can a chaplain cast a litany while inside transports, or is it like the psychic powers? Also if they are off the table (teleportarium, etc) can they cast their litanies?

Thanks for any comments about it.

Chap needs to be on table. Also be careful how the specific litanies work, in which stage you need to be in range of the aura.

 WisdomLS wrote:
For me killing chaff isn't an issue, my deathcompany, sang guard and terminators all pack bolters that can happily pick up infantry plus the sheer weight of attacks we bring in combat (DC especially) make short work of them.

For me dealing with tough targets at range is the main issue, sure if we can get to them in assault we can tear most things apart but all our ranged weapons seem a bit lacking when we could just take the same thing but better in a Space Marine detachment.

The things I like for ranged support are whirlwinds (you need some LOS ignoring shooting), forgeworld dreads of all stripes, predators and Deveastators. None of these feel hugely efficient and taking enough to be reliable is alot of points so I often just double down on choppy stuff.

I never leave home without 3 fw quadralaster contemptor or 3 devastator squad with 4 laser each. We can punch holes in combat but we're still marines after all. As a matter of fact I'm currently using only 2 units in deep strike, namely the sanguinary guard and the mad captain. The sanguinary ancient and my sanguinary priest with jump pack start on board because I'm an arrogant player xD.

Xirax wrote:
Chap needs to be on table. Also be careful how the specific litanies work, in which stage you need to be in range of the aura.

I thought so, but I wanted to be sure. It makes chaps less useful unless you run them along some unit not deepstriking or in transports. Using in fiery wings strat (guess that is the name, sorry my codex is not english) to relocate them after casting the litany seems to be the way, but most of them are not useful if he is not close at the moment.

Maybe the best option is to field them with props and make them advance?

How do players usually run them? Are they worthy for a turn 2 or 3 litany?

Is anyone else using a full squad (or squads) of 6 plasma Inceptors? I've only gotten a few games in doing so (and also using a 6 man bolter Inceptor squad), but they've been pretty great. Backed up with our FnP banner and with the ability to hide and then redeploy with Upon Wings of Fire if necessary is kind of awesome.

Anyone else trying these guys out?

I don't like the pricetag or them killing themselves. They are good for DA, I'm not sold on BA at all.

Inceptors I run as 3 man heavy bolter in my blood Angel's army. Plasma just doesnt seem to fit right on ba, plus the extra cost is quite hard to justify.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't like the pricetag or them killing themselves. They are good for DA, I'm not sold on BA at all.

Totally understandable, but I always have them deep striking near a captain (phobos captain who is in the area of where I want them to show up at) and also start them on the board near a chaplain, who attempts to put the +1 to ranged hit Litany on them...so killing themselves is only a slight issue.

I get it...they're expensive to boot, but man they really put out a ton of damage EXACTLY where and when you want them to do so...AT RANGE, which is nice for BA.

I've also been amazed at how hard they are to remove. 3W at T5 with the FnP banner (and a 5+ invul if I feel froggy and have a librarian in the list) sticks around way longer than I ever thought it would.

Out of break time...*waves*

As stated, Plinceptors tend to favor armies with ways to boost their damage output (DA's Weapons of the Dark Age, DW's Doctrines, etc).

They can definitely do work in their Bolter configuration (they're basically alternate twin-HB land speeders), and using them to clear the way for heavy hitters in a BA army makes sense.

I am building some plasma Inceptors (but got distracted by the shiny new Mephiston model). The bolter ones do a lots of great work for me and I am hoping for good things from the plasma dudes. With Standard of Sacrifice and a JP Priest (now that they are a thing again), they look quite durable at 3 T5 wounds apiece.

Of course those are the same support characters I normally wun with my SG which could get awkward....

 Karhedron wrote:
I am building some plasma Inceptors (but got distracted by the shiny new Mephiston model). The bolter ones do a lots of great work for me and I am hoping for good things from the plasma dudes. With Standard of Sacrifice and a JP Priest (now that they are a thing again), they look quite durable at 3 T5 wounds apiece.

Of course those are the same support characters I normally wun with my SG which could get awkward....

This is similar to what I've done, and it's not all that awkward. Depending upon the deployment, you can kind of end up with both squads flooding the same area. Your opponent will be wanting to use the same guns to shoot both squads, and if the FnP banner is in range, won't be able to get rid of either.

They're not invincible, of course, but by the time they go down they've done their damage, and melee characters are now into their lines and cleaning up.

So far my biggest flaw is getting the banner bearer killed earlier than he should...just being too aggressive with him. I need to remind myself to just keep him safe and forget he's got a power fist.

Hey,
could we talk a bit about playing a successors BA.

So we are limited to only one primary relic, so angel's wing or in some cases standard of sacrifice are the ones you will choose.

Then, you can still get icon of the angel and quake bolts which are nice, imho.

But then.. our BA chapter tactic the red thirst is so good and fluffy so losing the +1 to wound just feels like not-BA. Can you guys see any combo's that might with BA models and strats. I've liked bolter fusillades and ranged marksmen with my raven guard, the rerolling all 1's with bolt weapon has proven super.

I think that you can't compete with +1 to wound in melee, but what do you think?

Barring an FAQ / errata I'm not aware of, BA successors cannot make use of Codex:SM successor CTs.

Well that's stupid if it's the case.

Xirax wrote:
Well that's stupid if it's the case.

It kind is if the case...

...but literally nowhere outside of an official GW tournament have I ever seen the "your BA must be red" rule enforced. It's not even a proper rule since the colour isn't defined anywhere. As long as you don't also have any Fleshtearers models or relics in a BA detachment the actual colour of them shouldn't matter. I've been playing black BA for years and never had a single complaint. If people truly have a problem with not-red BA ask them to point to the actual rule that requires them to be painted red.

Agreed. At least they are painted. To say "it's not red it cant be official ba" is to say "you are not painting it the way I like so waaaah". But that's just my opinion, for the 2 cents it's worth lol.

I play my red painted space marines as what ever I want, you can paint your models how you like and use whichever rules you want.
Play you pink and green marines using the blood angel rules. For all rules purposes they count as BA, field your counts as mephiston and Dante, it's all using the correct rules.

After more thinking, I think autobolters and bolter inceptors are gonna be key for screen clearing. I think aggressors are a bit too slow and can be played around.

Hey all!

Does anyone running any bikers ? I have 184 points in my list so i'm torn between 8x bikers with chainswords or 5x lc termies + 19 points elsewhere . Mind that I already have 7x sanguinary guard with fists+plasma pistols in deep strike so bikers would give me more board presence .The mobility is great and you can hunt both units and objectives. I think that we can't use the stratagem "Skilled Riders" though (correct me if I'm wrong) . I also have 12x aggressors moving in the center of the board with sanguinary ancient +standard of sacrifice + shield of sanguinious on one unit and power through knowledge from a malleus inquisitor on the other . 3+/5++/5+++ 5T 3W models seems legit but a bit slow overall .That's why i want a mobile unit to pair them with. I'm not sold on DC as they die like flies and I prefer a more grindy/durable unit and not a glass cannon one with this strategy. 5T 2W with 4x bolter shots + 2x (3x) atcks on charge sounds good to me packing nice survivability and descent offence at the same time.

Any thoughts/suggestions? Thanx in advance xD

Scout bikers are excellent value. You can get 8 for 184 pts. They put out 34 bolter shots at 24". At 12" they have 16 additional shotgun shots, at 6" with S5. In melee they can use their pistols. And they have two attacks in melee with their combat knives, sarge has three. Plus one when they charge.

I have been playing some games with various lists, full melee, some indirect fire, killshot and balanced AC shooting. My takes are at the moment, every time I play super aggressive T1/T2 I struggle, I may win if I go first or if stars align it doesn't mind, but more I go deeper in this rabbit hole.. I've been starting planning and list building from thinking of going second. Going first would be just a bonus. Hoard the board and maybe smash cpt one key target, but wait till T2/T3 to bring the heavy hitters. Sang priest with icon dropping in and Astorath with canticle of hate and UWoF combo have gotten my T2/T3 army wide charge succesful. Multi-charge and try to wrap something. I think I'm going like 7-4 after PA in various points games, so there are some really nasty match ups.

Back to the point of this post.. Anyone else feel like we should play the long game to get our doctrine rolling. In my last game I dropped my death ball T3 and did really hilarious damage. Chainsword DC can get hilarious with 8 attacks / dude S5, Ap -1/4 wounding anything on 4+ within sang priest aura. Dropped a full hp despoiler with 10 DC only with chainsword and boltguns with fight twice. It was more of an casual game, but still.