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The problem is the wording sucks. But, you use the stratagem before advancing. To me, that means you can't move, advance, then decide to use this stratagem if your advance roll sucked. The other issue for advancing is the "Do not roll a dice" at the end of the stratagem. If you aren't rolling a dice, then you can't possibly advance. Rolling a d6 for advancing would be the only possible reason a Predator would be rolling a d6 at that time. If you could advance, then this part would be left out. Otherwise it's there for literally no reason.

EDIT: Ok I'm going to add an addendum here after reading the rulebook. For Movement, you add the d6 to the Movement Characteristic when you advance. I was always under the impression they were separate measurements. So the 6" added to the movement characteristic does look like it takes precedence as the advance, hence the do not roll a dice. I'll take the L on that one. Since you don't roll a dice, it looks like this simply makes your advance an automatic 6" unless you're a Baal Pred. The difference for Baal Preds makes sense ruleswise, too. Baal Preds roll 2d6 and take the highest for advancing normally. With the strat, they get the 6+d6 so it'd actually be somewhat useable. That makes me a sad panda.

The FAQ at least cleared up 2 things that affect my army, preds and power swords on intercessors.

So earlier I asked about loading up DC and heres what I ran.

5 man JP with 3 chainswords and 2 TH
6 man JP with 3 chainswords and 3 axes
8 man with chainsword and bolters.

My thinking was moving up the bolters and shooting towards objectives, and depending on targets drop in or move advance on them.

In 3 games i used the bolters and axes to bully tau while the hammers took out a ghostkheel. All 3 deployed and i used forlorn fury on the hammers to get close to the ghostkeel. The bolters and axe units went after some infiltrators on objectives and wiped them.

Against Salamanders the bolters ran up behind cover getting an objective while the axes ran the other table side. The hammers came in and i had the axes charge a relic dread with flamers so the hammers could get in with the 3d6 strat. Nearly killed it and then temrinators came in and messed them up.

And last was against 1k sons. The bolters were in the middle and shoot off turn 1. The axes charged some rubrics who eat the attacks with inv saves. The hammers came dropped in and again used the 3d6 strat to charge a contemptor and wipe it.

In all the chaplain sat with the hammers or hammer and axes and only got in cc once. In this 1500 pt list i think a few more points I would add a LR to carry the bolter ones but 5-6 is ok for stopping shooting or popping a mean target but they sit in the open and die.

Hmm LR or SR maybe the flyer? My meta didnt have more than a handful with so many players.

Hi guys after all the talk of inceptors earlier in the thread I was wondering is it possible to mix plasma and assault bolters in one squad? The rules as I read them lead me to believe so:

"all models in the unit may replace their two assault bolters with plasma..."

But I've seen no mention of it so was curious if I had it wrong since shielding the more expensive plasma guys with 2/3 bolters seems like it could be a decent tactic if you are taking the bolter variant anyway with split fire being built in now. Or are those extra wounds just not worth it?

“all” vs “any models may” leads me to believe, like every other Primaris unit; you have one weapon type per squad.

Bremon wrote:
“all” vs “any models may” leads me to believe, like every other Primaris unit; you have one weapon type per squad.

Thanks for the info Bremon they’re the only primaries unit I’ve been using so wasn’t aware of that, explains why it was never mentioned!

No problem. Lack of customization is really the one qwqknwww Primaris seem to have compared to mini marines.

Am i the only one who thinks that its odd that a CC oriented army doesnt have access to the emperors champion from the SM codex ? That guy is a CC beast.

Is he not BT exclusive?

 p5freak wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks that its odd that a CC oriented army doesnt have access to the emperors champion from the SM codex ? That guy is a CC beast.

Yes, you are.

The Emperor's Champion has been an Imperial Fist first company and then Black Templar exclusive thing since the Heresy. Other chapters have their Company Champions similar in role to the Emperor's Champion. It's just a more elevated position within the ranks of the Black Templars.

Nobody I've ever talked to that plays Blood Angels wants the Emperor's Champion. He's cool and all, for sure, but we have other, better Special Characters for melee. Mephiston, just to name one.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I would hope Mephiston would be better; he’s not cheap. The EC is.

Exept the EC can't fly over the whole opponent's army to pop a squad or a vehicle or a character.

If i would complain of another marine dex it's the DA blade of Caliban company champion for 40pts that didn't get FAQED.

Mephy can't do it either against a properly screened army.

Martel732 wrote:
Mephy can't do it either against a properly screened army.

Maybe not turn 1 shenanigans but no problem turn 2. Plus it's not like we don't need to remove screen for our other units.

Maybe. I've cut most of the pyskers out of my lists. They're just so... inferior to the competition.

I like them more than I liked using vanilla red marines garbage powers and, at least in my local meta, a couple chances to deny are welcome.

Lib Dreads are still beast for popping high T low save vehicles and monsters. Wings of Sanguinius is stupid easy to get off considering how powerful it is.

It only affects a single psyker. Should probably be warp charge 3 or 4.

Martel732 wrote:
It only affects a single psyker. Should probably be warp charge 3 or 4.

I think it's much better than Quickening and it's 2 less warp charge. The incredible mobility you get with 12" of fly on top of your normal move is amazeballs. The attacks on Quickening could very easily be 1 more, which if you can't make it to your target is useless. Obviously it's great when you get the 3, I'm much more of a sucker for things that are guaranteed effects.

Quickening should be 5 warp charge. It's only one psyker.

Martel732 wrote:
Quickening should be 5 warp charge. It's only one psyker.

Can't say I disagree. It doesn't seem worth the charge value for what you get out. You're usually better off just Smiting at that point. The only time I can see it really worth using it is on the Lib Dread since you get the static 3 or 4 damage attacks with a 2+ to hit and wound. It's a much more guaranteed bit of damage than any other options.

What do you think of Blood Boil to go with smite when you don't need wings instead of quickening ?

It's solid because you can target T3 spankers.

Ordered Betrayal at Calth. The price premium over buying Cataphractii and a Contemptor (which I really want, but will require a bit of work to improve the pose) is absolutely negligible for 30 marines and 2 characters. MkIV Sternguard in my immediate future. Anyone been running cataphractii? What loadouts work reasonably well?

There's no more good reason to run any termis. Sang guard are better.

Well, take their 4++, and different weapon options compared to SG into account, and imagine a scenario where winning is nice, but you like the models and your main goal is to have fun. In that scenario, are twin claws, or stormbolter and single claw what you would go for? Power fist is better on SG... chainfist is always a rip off.

Were I you, for Cataphracti Terminators (Which are the only one's I'd look at next to Assault Terminators) I'd consider running 4x Lightning Claw and 1x Heavy Flamer + Power Fist. Alternatively, just run 5x Lightning Claw. I like the ability to help have something for Overwatch myself, but it is cheaper to run all lightning claws points wise.

The terminator stratagem, Srike of the Archangels works very well for them also. Rerolling all to hit, and if you have a librarian nearby for Unleash Rage for +1 attack on that turn, even better.

I suspect you'll have pretty good luck with them, as they should be able to weather a good amount of firepower short of mortal wound spam and get in to rip some targets apart, especially with Red Thirst helping those lightning claws get wounds on a target.

Best of luck, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Thanks for the insight Red Thirst; would you take the claws in pairs? If things start running away from the termies some dakka seems clutch, and 4 S4 shots seems like a better option than 4 extra CC attacks. Thoughts?

Bremon wrote:
Thanks for the insight Red Thirst; would you take the claws in pairs? If things start running away from the termies some dakka seems clutch, and 4 S4 shots seems like a better option than 4 extra CC attacks. Thoughts?

Yes, I'd run all claws on 4 of them, with a heavy flamer and a power fist on the 5th model. Drop them in as part of an assault element (Death Company or similar) and a supporting character (Librarian/Sanguinary Priest/Chaplain/Captain) and saturate your opponent with targets.

You've got a lot of shooting elements you can bring to bear from other sources. Not many have the option for paired lightning claws, especially on a durable platform such as the Cataphracti pattern armor. Twelve attacks with claws, plus another two powerfist swings is pretty stellar, especially if you can get re-rolls on the to-hit rolls via aura effect or stratagem noted above, coupled with automatic re-rolls on all to-wound rolls they make with their claws. Odds are good you'll get 9 to 10 (or maybe more) wounds on a target at AP: -2. Let the choppy things chop, let the shooty things shoot.

You can certainly try Combi-Bolters on them with a single lightning claw if you prefer it. Though, I would always spring for the Grenade Harness on the Sergeant if you can. 12" Range D6 shot Bolt Rifle stat weapon is pretty great.

Ultimately, if you want them to help clear chaff/troops at range then throw the Combi-Bolters on them, if you want to leave the shooting to other stuff in your force, then I'd run paired claws. Powerfists are also excellent, since they get D3 damage per hit, and with Strike of the Archangels in play you'll get a reroll to hit on every attack from that squad at a clutch moment. All the options are worth it, in my opinion, it's just what do you plan on using them for? What role will they fill in your army? That'll help determine what kind of weapons you equip them with.

My personal squad would be a Sergeant w/ Grenade Harness and 2x Lightning Claws, a Squad Member with a Power Fist and Heavy Flamer, and 3x squad members with paired Lightning Claws.

Hopefully that helps. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Hmm. That’s very true. Melee output is likely more important for the role they would fill and the targets they would be pointed at.