Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hoodwink wrote:
I think it's much better than Quickening and it's 2 less warp charge. The incredible mobility you get with 12" of fly on top of your normal move is amazeballs. The attacks on Quickening could very easily be 1 more, which if you can't make it to your target is useless. Obviously it's great when you get the 3, I'm much more of a sucker for things that are guaranteed effects.

Wings is great T1-2 when you need to close the distance rapidly. But once you are up close, Quickening is often better as you need the extra attacks more than the extra move. I do agree that WC7 is a bit high for Quickening though. I think 6 would be plenty.

Bremon wrote:
Well, take their 4++, and different weapon options compared to SG into account, and imagine a scenario where winning is nice, but you like the models and your main goal is to have fun. In that scenario, are twin claws, or stormbolter and single claw what you would go for? Power fist is better on SG... chainfist is always a rip off.

They have only 4" movement, they cant use descent of angels, they cant be relocated with upon wings of fire. They dont even have a teleport homer. If you deepstrike them with twin claws and fail the charge your opponent will simply move away and probably ignore them (thats what i would do). With snail like speed, and half speed advancing, your termis will achieve nothing.

Strike of the archangels is 2 CP, sang guard have a similiar ability already built in, when they are within 6" of the warlord. One termi is 40 pts. with single claw and stormbolter, one sang guard is ~35 pts with encarmine sword and angelus boltgun. Encarmine sword is superior to claw. Stormbolter has twice as many shots at 12", but no AP.

 p5freak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Well, take their 4++, and different weapon options compared to SG into account, and imagine a scenario where winning is nice, but you like the models and your main goal is to have fun. In that scenario, are twin claws, or stormbolter and single claw what you would go for? Power fist is better on SG... chainfist is always a rip off.

They have only 4" movement, they cant use descent of angels, they cant be relocated with upon wings of fire. They dont even have a teleport homer. If you deepstrike them with twin claws and fail the charge your opponent will simply move away and probably ignore them (thats what i would do). With snail like speed, and half speed advancing, your termis will achieve nothing.

Strike of the archangels is 2 CP, sang guard have a similiar ability already built in, when they are within 6" of the warlord. One termi is 40 pts. with single claw and stormbolter, one sang guard is ~35 pts with encarmine sword and angelus boltgun. Encarmine sword is superior to claw. Stormbolter has twice as many shots at 12", but no AP.

Freak, Dude, if he wants to run Cataphracti Terminators, let the guy run Cataphracti Terminators. Your presence in this thread is constantly negative, and frankly starting to really detract from the discussion here.

He didn't ask if he should run Terminators or Sanguinary Guard. Bremon asked how to best equip a squad of Cataphracti Terminators. If you're not going to offer advice on that, then you should probably not say anything further, yea? He told you he doesn't want to run Sanguinary Guard, he likes the look of Cataphracti and wants to run them instead. Offer advice on that now and stop trying to convince him to run a squad he doesn't want to run, please.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

If I was to run Cataphracti Terminators, I would at least want to give them a ranged weapon.

They can drop in and take shots at another unit before trying to charge, and if they fail their charge, they have at least done SOMETHING instead of just standing there like dopes.

Yeah, in the event of a slow chase some dakka seems critical. Nothing worse than deepstriking a paperweight. Your point is well taken NHGunsmith.

 p5freak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Well, take their 4++, and different weapon options compared to SG into account, and imagine a scenario where winning is nice, but you like the models and your main goal is to have fun. In that scenario, are twin claws, or stormbolter and single claw what you would go for? Power fist is better on SG... chainfist is always a rip off.

They have only 4" movement, they cant use descent of angels, they cant be relocated with upon wings of fire. They dont even have a teleport homer. If you deepstrike them with twin claws and fail the charge your opponent will simply move away and probably ignore them (thats what i would do). With snail like speed, and half speed advancing, your termis will achieve nothing.

Strike of the archangels is 2 CP, sang guard have a similiar ability already built in, when they are within 6" of the warlord. One termi is 40 pts. with single claw and stormbolter, one sang guard is ~35 pts with encarmine sword and angelus boltgun. Encarmine sword is superior to claw. Stormbolter has twice as many shots at 12", but no AP.

Encarmine sword is only superior with a warlord babysitter, and only re-rolls wounds with a Lt or SG Ancient. They have no invulnerable save. You admit angelus bolters aren’t good (SB >special issue boltgun >bolt rifle >angelus). What do your tables look like that you can have multiple units run away from something unimpeded for an entire game. I’ve had plenty of times where deathshroud or blightlords have a chance to put some hurt on me, and if I don’t dedicate a ton of firepower at them, continue to hurt me despite their Cataphractii armour. Hyperbolic judgement of units as fantastic or trash doesn’t help this thread.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
He didn't ask if he should run Terminators or Sanguinary Guard. Bremon asked how to best equip a squad of Cataphracti Terminators. If you're not going to offer advice on that, then you should probably not say anything further, yea? He told you he doesn't want to run Sanguinary Guard, he likes the look of Cataphracti and wants to run them instead. Offer advice on that now and stop trying to convince him to run a squad he doesn't want to run, please.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I enjoy SG, and have asked about them in this thread, I have 5 on order and will likely end up with 10. That said, variety is the spice of life and they realistically aren’t all that great either. They’re flying vanilla termies with worse bolters. A warlord Ancient and command points are the key to making them work. Like cataphractii, they look great and I enjoy the minis. I appreciate your input on a loadout for the turtlenators.

I would make cataphractii shoot as much as possible.

What do you all think of Stormhawk Interceptors vs. Stormraven Gunships? Right now in the BA list I'm working on I really need some anti-vehicle. My list is all infantry except for a Librarian Dreadnought which means that most vehicles really don't have a place in that list. Stormhawk's seem pretty durable even if they have 4 less wounds than a Gunship, but they are about 150 points cheaper which means for the cost of one Stormraven I get 1.75 Hawks.

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you all think of Stormhawk Interceptors vs. Stormraven Gunships? Right now in the BA list I'm working on I really need some anti-vehicle. My list is all infantry except for a Librarian Dreadnought which means that most vehicles really don't have a place in that list. Stormhawk's seem pretty durable even if they have 4 less wounds than a Gunship, but they are about 150 points cheaper which means for the cost of one Stormraven I get 1.75 Hawks.

I'd run a Stormhawk in lieu of a Predator (or as a harder to hit predator alternative). Kitted out for anti-vehicle work, Las-talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, and paired Assault Cannons, it looks pretty decent in my opinion. It should be suitably effective at the anti-vehicle role. Just gotta be careful with placement, as it doesn't have the option to Hover like the Storm Raven or Storm Talon. This isn't a critical deficiency, but it does mean you have to be a lot more cognizant of how you place it and where it moves.

My only complaint is that it is always going to hit on 4+ against any ground targets you shoot at if you kit it with the paired Assault Cannons, Typhoon Launcher, and Las-talon. If you're hunting other flyers with it, you do get +1 to hit though, so back to 3+, but for any and all ground attack you're going to hit on 4+ before any other dings to your vehicle happen (such as enemy -1 to hit traits), or the flyer is reduced in wounds sufficiently to get the -1 to hit, or both.

Try it out and see, I think it could work.

Also, pardon the random segue, but call me curious: What is your avatar image on here from? I've seen it somewhere and I can't recall where, which is bugging me.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you all think of Stormhawk Interceptors vs. Stormraven Gunships? Right now in the BA list I'm working on I really need some anti-vehicle.

Nothing. There is a better anti vehicle flyer, and its not the stormtalon.

Red__Thirst wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you all think of Stormhawk Interceptors vs. Stormraven Gunships? Right now in the BA list I'm working on I really need some anti-vehicle. My list is all infantry except for a Librarian Dreadnought which means that most vehicles really don't have a place in that list. Stormhawk's seem pretty durable even if they have 4 less wounds than a Gunship, but they are about 150 points cheaper which means for the cost of one Stormraven I get 1.75 Hawks.

I'd run a Stormhawk in lieu of a Predator (or as a harder to hit predator alternative). Kitted out for anti-vehicle work, Las-talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, and paired Assault Cannons, it looks pretty decent in my opinion. It should be suitably effective at the anti-vehicle role. Just gotta be careful with placement, as it doesn't have the option to Hover like the Storm Raven or Storm Talon. This isn't a critical deficiency, but it does mean you have to be a lot more cognizant of how you place it and where it moves.

My only complaint is that it is always going to hit on 4+ against any ground targets you shoot at if you kit it with the paired Assault Cannons, Typhoon Launcher, and Las-talon. If you're hunting other flyers with it, you do get +1 to hit though, so back to 3+, but for any and all ground attack you're going to hit on 4+ before any other dings to your vehicle happen (such as enemy -1 to hit traits), or the flyer is reduced in wounds sufficiently to get the -1 to hit, or both.

Try it out and see, I think it could work.

Also, pardon the random segue, but call me curious: What is your avatar image on here from? I've seen it somewhere and I can't recall where, which is bugging me.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I was going to go with that exact loadout on it actually. I agree that hitting on a 4+ is not that great which is my biggest issue with it. I'm going to give it a shot. My biggest issue is that my entire list is infantry based except the Hawks. I don't want to see them get knocked out of the sky turn 1.

The avatar is from Yu-Gi-Oh! It's a card called 'Fabled Grimro'. I also used it as my avatar on a Yu-Gi-Oh forum years ago.

p5freak wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you all think of Stormhawk Interceptors vs. Stormraven Gunships? Right now in the BA list I'm working on I really need some anti-vehicle.

Nothing. There is a better anti vehicle flyer, and its not the stormtalon.

Are you referring to the Storm Eagle or that other FW flyer?

 Red Comet wrote:

Are you referring to the Storm Eagle or that other FW flyer?

The other FW flyer. Xiphon interceptor.

Relic vehicle wise (speaking of FW units), lets say I want a Sicaran.. do I have to have another heavy support unit before I field one; it can't be the only FOC of that type in your army, right?

Another question.. is there anything better than Interceptors for screen clearing?

Razerous wrote:
Relic vehicle wise (speaking of FW units), lets say I want a Sicaran.. do I have to have another heavy support unit before I field one; it can't be the only FOC of that type in your army, right?

If your army is battle forged no detachment may contain more relic units than it does non relic units of the same battlefield role. Yes, if you have one elite relic unit (the sicaran is elite) you need at least one non elite relic unit in the same detachment.

Razerous wrote:

Another question.. is there anything better than Interceptors for screen clearing?

They are called inceptors. Can you be more specific ? There is a lot better than inceptors for screen clearing.

Like what = in a BA Army. Jump pack melee heavy.

I've got approx 160-170pts to field a unit.. although if the Sicaran Battle Tank is an elite choice (Thought it was heavy support?) then I'm fine, thanks to the Death Company in my army too!

Razerous wrote:
Like what = in a BA Army. Jump pack melee heavy.

Thats what i thought, only BA narrows it down quite a lot. Company veterans with stormbolters (JP or bike). Aggressors, either with boltstorm or flamestorm. Landspeeders with twin heavy flamers, or heavy bolter and assault cannon.

Razerous wrote:

I've got approx 160-170pts to field a unit.. although if the Sicaran Battle Tank is an elite choice (Thought it was heavy support?) then I'm fine, thanks to the Death Company in my army too!

I'm very sure the sicaran battle tank is elite.

As much as i like the Sicaran, I can't overstate how good killshot is, especially when TOs extend it to Baals.

Martel732 wrote:
As much as i like the Sicaran, I can't overstate how good killshot is, especially when TOs extend it to Baals.

Are Baals worth theirs points with killshot? I feel that tank is still overpriced....

Well, it's base 22 pts more than a razorback, but provides killshot support and CP by filling a real slot. And it does outrange a twin AC razor with its heavy bolters.

I'm only bringing razors for lascannons now.

Martel732 wrote:
Well, it's base 22 pts more than a razorback, but provides killshot support and CP by filling a real slot. And it does outrange a twin AC razor with its heavy bolters.

I'm only bringing razors for lascannons now.

A baal pred with twin AC is 144 pts. which is overpriced, 124 would be ok. A razorback with twin AC is 114 pts. and can carry 6 models. Thats 30 pts. Getting 1 CP will cost you 90 pts. for 3 baal preds. RAW, baal preds cant use killshot. The BA FAQ didnt say anything about it, so no killshot for baal preds.

ITC is allowing it, which is what matters to me. Murky RAW is irrelevant if TOs make changes.

Not everyone is playing tournaments, and other TOs may rule it according to RAW, no killshot for baal preds.

Maybe, but that's how I'm running them for now. Anyone going to ITC can do the same.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
If I was to run Cataphracti Terminators, I would at least want to give them a ranged weapon.

They can drop in and take shots at another unit before trying to charge, and if they fail their charge, they have at least done SOMETHING instead of just standing there like dopes.

One problem I find with deep strikers that both shoot and charge is that if their shooting can actually make the charge harder or impossible. Ugghhhh This just doesn't apply to terminators but its far worse for them since they aren't that mobile.

But yeah shooty terminators can be pretty good if geared up right

 Ovechkin8 wrote:

But yeah shooty terminators can be pretty good if geared up right

Inceptors are ten times times better than shooty termis.

 p5freak wrote:

 Ovechkin8 wrote:

But yeah shooty terminators can be pretty good if geared up right

Inceptors are ten times times better than shooty termis.

They are good! But if someone wants to use terminators they can make it work!

Considering the guys who run the ITC are working hand in hand with GW, helping them playtest and just generally know GWs intentions ahead of time regarding rules issues, I'd say if they're saying Baal Preds get to use Killshot, you can assume GW will say Baal Preds can use Killshot.

It's coming. They didn't put in wall of firepower for the Baal, so I'm sure RAI is to use killshot. Baals can help fill out battalions and brigades, too.

For those of us who can? Has anyone tried the FW chaplin dread? I've got a spare furioso and I'm tempted to try a conversion for it?

For a while I have been using 5 man Devastator Squads with 4 heavy weapons. However, in the last four games I haven't gone first a single time, and I have learned an important lesson. 4 expensive heavy weapons like Missile Launchers is a juicy target for an opponent. They generally get hit pretty hard Turn 1.

So would going 3 Missile Launchers, Bolter dude and a Cherub be a better loadout? The Bolter dude as an ablative wound, and the Cherub to give them one turn of throwing out 4 Missile shots. I plan to use Missile Launchers over Lascannons just because I like the way they look better.

I am thinking of dropping both of my Twin-Las/CCW Dreads to add 2 more 3 Missile, 1 Bolter dude and a Cherub Devastator Squads. The points savings allows me to take a Company Ancient so that even if the Devastators start getting hit pretty hard Turn 1, they still have a chance to get a few Missile shots off. I think that the Company Ancient with the relic banner would also be a decent buff to the 3 Devastator Squads as well.

Would love to hear some thoughts from you guys on that.

I like devastator squads with two weapons per 5, myself. Fills up slots faster and your weapons are more protected.

Or go the full 10 men, 4 weapons if you want to use auspex scan.