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 p5freak wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.

Its the theoretical maximum damage. Of course, this will never happen.

I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.

Killshot predator autocannons with capt/lt bubble.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.

Bolters+Pistols generally are better than Pistol+CCW, unless your basic attack is somehow stronger htan a boltgun or your WS is better htan your BS (neither of whichi are true for Scouts in most cases, even BA it's questionable).

That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?

 Emicrania wrote:
That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?

If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.

 Ordana wrote:

I was wondering if it would be worth it to drop the Culexus and replace the (mostly useless) priest with Mephiston.

Is he worth it? is 2 denies and his potential better then the - aura from the assassin?

Yes, mephiston is worth it.

 p5freak wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

I was wondering if it would be worth it to drop the Culexus and replace the (mostly useless) priest with Mephiston.

Is he worth it? is 2 denies and his potential better then the - aura from the assassin?

Yes, mephiston is worth it.

I agree. Worth his weight in 145 point gold.

What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?

In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.

tag8833 wrote:
What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?

In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.

Drop pods work well with him. Crush in a dev squad and a vet squad for extra kicks. I find he's best when paired with empyric channeling so he can get that cheap quickening off.

tag8833 wrote:
What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?

In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.

He moves 19" and re-rolls charges. With another potential +3" to charge (less likely to succeed on a 7 then the move on a 5). A turn 1 charge is not unreasonable at all. How can he not keep up?

I normally keep him back a turn or two as deterrant, than launch him forwards as an assassin.

Or, if I end up going first, I have used him to assassinate Tank Commanders and other big things left open on the front lines.

 Ordana wrote:
He moves 19" and re-rolls charges. With another potential +3" to charge (less likely to succeed on a 7 then the move on a 5). A turn 1 charge is not unreasonable at all. How can he not keep up?

My deep strike bundle (Death Company, Lemartes, Captain Hammer, JP Libby) all deep strike together in a group. Generally as deep into my enemy's backfield as I can get. I usually want the +3" charge for my JP libby to give him the extra attacks, and a T1 charge, So Mephy gets a 19" move starting from behind a screen. He picks the target of opportunity closest to him which is usually enemy deep strikers / fast stuff. It's easy for him to outrun the rest of my non-deep striking army, and I don't really want Mephy out front.

So how have you guys been doing with Brigade Detachment armies? And what have you been using? I have been thinking of going from a double Battalion & Spearhead army at 2,000 points to a full Brigade.

Bremon wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?

If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.

This is exactly right, one thing I tought was important to notice is that Red Thirst and Honour the chapter can’t be used togheter since they are both activated in the Fight phase. So again, we almost want our captain to die in order to activate OiD. Otherwise there are very slim chances to solo a BT. Extremely thin.

 Emicrania wrote:

Bremon wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?

If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.

This is exactly right, one thing I tought was important to notice is that Red Thirst and Honour the chapter can’t be used togheter since they are both activated in the Fight phase. So again, we almost want our captain to die in order to activate OiD. Otherwise there are very slim chances to solo a BT. Extremely thin.

Why can't I use both?
The limit is each strat only be used once per phase, not only one strat per phase.

Of course you can use both. Red thirst is not a stratagem. It's our chapter tactic.

 p5freak wrote:
Of course you can use both. Red thirst is not a stratagem. It's our chapter tactic.

He probably meant Red Rampage which is the d3 extra attacks.
But still, ofc you can use both.

I’m sure he meant Red Rampage, but yeah, you can use both.

Hammer Capt (not even DC version) last night was a rocket in my weekly game against Death Guard. We played the eternal war patrol mission from CA; I rolled miserably which meant my
SG, one unit of DC, Capt and Lt started on the table. I got second turn. It came down to a dice roll in the end, which I lost. If it had ended on turn 6, but it went one more and a drone mowed down a squad of intercessors because I whiffed 5 5+ saves lol. Highlight for me was the hammer Captain got buffed by Unleash Rage, and 3 attacks off Red Rampage meant that after the Libby smote a Blightlord off the table, the Captain then killed 4 more and a Daemon Prince with the 4+++ warlord trait. Only in Death was the knife the DP’s heart, forcing another 16 DR on the Prince.

Hey,
what kinda gunlines you guys use? NH gunsmith had a triple devs with ML. I've been using 1-2 units of singles of PC, LC, ML and cherub in a squad.

I'm on a mission to beat DG and the horde of bloat-drones.. DG seems so hard for me to gun down. I'm looking at the predator autocannons to give me extra punch, but they are number 1 targets for any anti-tank weaponry. Still those bloat-drones are so fast and resilient that when they get their flamers in range of my devs or what ever infantry unit, it's bye bye.

My last 1250 game is in the batrep section where you wanted it . I'm playing again a 1500 game soon. Thursday is a gaming day against ad mech or dark eldar me thinks, but before or after it. I'd appreciate some suggestions how in the feth I get those pesky DG vehicles down a PBC can be tarpitted and tracked, but those flyers just keep on flying and torching. I've been that guy at rolling terribly against DG lately, but you can't blame the dice for everything, can you.

DG has some good elements too, 18" rapid fire range on plasma.. T5 marines, 5+ DR throws and all those vehicles have T7/8 with 5+ invul. save on top of that.

1. So what kinda gunlines you use at ~1500 points?
2. I'm thinking putting the capt. slam along with a stock lieutenant within my gunline for 1-2 turns before I redeploy the captain if needed and use it as normal himself. Does that sound like the worst idea ever?
3. btw, can I use DoA with the captain/any unit that has been redeployed with the upon wings of fire stratagem, RAW seems to let me at least.

As for Mephiston and his usage. I've either had him circled by tacticals or scouts or lately in a razorback just in case don't happen to go first. Then with after a turn in a razor or straight WoS I've gone towards toughest reachable target. I think I already mentioned this a while back, but in my last game against RG he soloed two intercessor squads and three primaris characters in three turns.

Xirax,

Keeping The Standard of Sacrifice near your Devs with a Sanguinary Novitiate or Sanguinary Priest has been the key to their survival.

This is what I normally run at 1,500 points;



I have had VERY good luck with this list so far.

Xirax wrote:

1. So what kinda gunlines you use at ~1500 points?
2. I'm thinking putting the capt. slam along with a stock lieutenant within my gunline for 1-2 turns before I redeploy the captain if needed and use it as normal himself. Does that sound like the worst idea ever?
3. btw, can I use DoA with the captain/any unit that has been redeployed with the upon wings of fire stratagem, RAW seems to let me at least.

1. Against DG and bloat drones i wouldnt run autocannon preds. Use lascannon preds or lascannon razorbacks. Preds can form a spearhead detachment and use killshot, razorbacks cant, but they are 20 pts. cheaper, and can carry infantry. You could place two company vets with 4 inferno pistols inside. Three of those are a vanguard detachment. Dreadnoughts are a good counter against plaguespitter drones. Use contemptors, they can keep up with them. Remember you dont have to play pure BA. Your devs could be RG or IH. Same for dreads, they have chapter tactics, vehicles dont.
2. I think its a good idea.
3. Yes, you can.

If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.

Bremon wrote:
If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.

People talk down about Missile Launchers, but I love them. Nothing better than removing two 10 man units of Electropriests with nothing but Frag Missiles before the Death Company charge in and kill/tie up all your opponents shooting.

I face T8 vehicles with such rarity that the lesser strength of the Missiles versus Lascannon hasn't been an issue.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

Bremon wrote:
If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.

People talk down about Missile Launchers, but I love them. Nothing better than removing two 10 man units of Electropriests with nothing but Frag Missiles before the Death Company charge in and kill/tie up all your opponents shooting.

I face T8 vehicles with such rarity that the lesser strength of the Missiles versus Lascannon hasn't been an issue.

That's a meta shift that I am calling now. Missile launchers are better vs all three codices that just dropped. BUT IG is so fething obnoxious that I'm scared to switch out any lascannons.

Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.

Bremon wrote:
Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.

Or Riptides.
Or Raiders.

But it's critical vs Leman Russ.

Martel732 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.

Or Riptides.
Or Raiders.

But it's critical vs Leman Russ.

True, but Mephy and the Death Company have become quite adept at finishing off Leman Russes that are wounded. That, and I don't necessarily have to kill them. Continually forcing them to fall back with an Angel's Wing Librarian plus Death Company works as well.

I can't reach them with Mephy or DC. Too many 4 pt models in the way. Sometimes, 30" of them; if they go first.

Martel732 wrote:
I can't reach them with Mephy or DC. Too many 4 pt models in the way. Sometimes, 30" of them; if they go first.

If they've got lots of bodies, it means multiple squads. Here is a CP heavy trick that might help out, especially against IG.

1) Assault a screen with a unit of death company (how you get there is up to you).
2) Kill that squad, consolidate 3" towards the nearest other squad..
3) Spend 3 CP on Hounour thy chapter to activate the Death company a 2nd time.
4) Pile in and consolidate into the other screen making sure to use your effective 9" movement (consolidate after 1st assault, Pile in and Consolidate on 2nd attack) to surround an enemy model.

Because screen 2 wasn't a target of your assault you can't fight against it. They can't fall back, because one of their models are surrounded so the DC is safe from shooting.
Because the Characters are farther away from the DC, they can't target Mephy or captain hammer.

Hopefully the DC can kill screen 2 on your opponent's turn, though a savvy opponent will charge something else in to keep them tied up. It usually will burn through most of your CP, but it will also usually win you the game.

Martel732 wrote:
I can't reach them with Mephy or DC. Too many 4 pt models in the way. Sometimes, 30" of them; if they go first.

...They don't always have to come in Turn 1. 16d6 Frag Missile shots from my army tends to clear hordes out nicely. Also, depending on how my opponent deploys my Libby can Wings over his screen and touch both the tanks and an infantry squad.

Okay thats a lot of missiles.

I'll have to try the dc trick. So sick of guardsmen spam.