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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Wow are those Tzeentch spells seriously all just parts of the Lord of Change digital file with extra flame thrown in? Setting new records for a half-assed release here.

Pretty close, yea.

I look forward to cheap bits for LoC heads though.

The new Disciples of Tzeentch faction focus is up. Looks pretty cool so far, although accomplishing Mass Conjuration looks to be fairly tough.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/02/faction-focus-disciples-of-tzeentch/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=AoSTzeentch2Jan20&utm_content=AoSTzeentch2Jan20&fbclid=IwAR3SSrM1pcxQAhmVaC4-N_nj47Vs-cCc_iiYJh-BpasGxJU2Iy9Ahi2qyrk

I wouldn't be surprised if Lords of Change have a means to get around the "one per turn casting" limit on spells. Perhaps even a signature spell that they can chain cast without limit. This would allow them to generate enough fury to summon more to the table; which in turn also feeds into the whole idea of summoning more Lords of Change.

It might be a near repeat of the Slaanesh depravity trick, only with even more of a focus on the Lords of Change as the vector and summoning subject.

SERIOUSLY tempted to start up a Tzeentch AoS army.

Tzeentch and Slaanesh have always been my favorites, but they always seem to take a back seat for Khorne and Nurgle, in GW's eyes...

Not anymore?

 Alpharius wrote:

Tzeentch and Slaanesh have always been my favorites, but they always seem to take a back seat for Khorne and Nurgle, in GW's eyes...

This is so true. I'm sick of Nurgle.

 Crimson wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Tzeentch and Slaanesh have always been my favorites, but they always seem to take a back seat for Khorne and Nurgle, in GW's eyes...

This is so true. I'm sick of Nurgle.

Same here.

Give us Slaanesh mortals to go with the Tzeentch's ones!

You'll get Slaanesh mortals when Slaanesh can exert its power again.

Also, don't complain when Maggotkin get revised. It's probably going to be soon given that KO and Tzeentch are getting done now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You'll get Slaanesh mortals when Slaanesh can exert its power again.

Also, don't complain when Maggotkin get revised. It's probably going to be soon given that KO and Tzeentch are getting done now.

Perhaps, but they don't need a whole lot of work to be 2.0 compliant, so it might just be a tome release alongside another faction.

On the topic of Tzeentch, what they've shown looks fluffy to me. The Tzeentch player locally is already looking at Acolytes instead of Horrors as his filler.

I was under the impression that the Nurgle Battletome was already 2.0 compliant and that, like a few others, the only real outstanding element is terrain and/or endless spells. Neither of which requires a new book to be released in order to be added to the army.

It should be noted also that terrian and spells, whilst very common, are not guaranteed to be released for 2.0 Battletomes. Idoneth, Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, Ogors, Orruks, Cities and KO all lack endless spells or similar mechanic spells. Meanwhile many of those forces also lack a terrain feature (and it seems that Tzeentch will also lack a terrain feature).


The next army to be updated will be either a new army (not all that likely considering Sisters of Battle are to be launched soon and Ossiarchs were only recently launched) or (far more likely) Seraphon .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You'll get Slaanesh mortals when Slaanesh can exert its power again.

.

Slaanesh hasn't actually stopped. See the majority of the mortal interaction with Chaos is most often done through the Greater Demons rather than the actual God. Even Skaven follow the same pattern with the Great Horned Rat having notably hardly appeared at all to the Skaven. The same is true of the other Chaos Gods, most times its Greater Demons pulling the strings of the mortals.

So as long as the Greater Demons are around, Slaanesh can keep going as normal. Demons corrupting the innocent to form a powerbase for themselves. Heck some might even be more active now as they seek to usurp the empty throne and impose their own will upon all of Slaanesh whilst the actual Prince is imprisoned

Nurgle doesn't has subfactions, for starters. Its one of the first 2.0 battletomes.

Doesn’t Nurgle already have terrain (the Feculent Gnarlmaw)?

Brian888 wrote:
Doesn’t Nurgle already have terrain (the Feculent Gnarlmaw)?

It does. Nurgle is lacking Endless Spells and potentially subfaction rules. There's also the door for maybe an unridden Maggoth and Pestigors. We've had art of a Maggoth like beast in 40k accompanying the Death Guard and Pestigors got a prominent mention in the Death Guard plaguefleet mentions.

Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.

Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)

I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.

 Galas wrote:
Nurgle doesn't has subfactions, for starters. Its one of the first 2.0 battletomes.

Be great if they did the Order of the Fly as a subfaction......

The new Tzeentch model does look very good.

Voss wrote:
Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.

Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)

I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.

Each Pink Horror takes 5 wounds to fully remove from the battle. 10 is a 50-wound unit. Good luck chewing through that whole thing. Oh, and that '1' in my Destiny pool? That's another d6 Pink Horrors.

 Overread wrote:
I was under the impression that the Nurgle Battletome was already 2.0 compliant and that, like a few others, the only real outstanding element is terrain and/or endless spells. Neither of which requires a new book to be released in order to be added to the army.

That's correct. Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, and Idoneth were released in 1.5, but they were designed for 2nd Edition. At most, they could use subfactions and endless spells, but those don't necessarily need a new battletome to implement.

DoK and Idoneth both have subfactions and Idoneth has terrain too. In general many of these additions can be done without a new book. Going forward from after Seraphon I'd not expect to see any AoS armies get a new book unless they also get a BIG model update in terms of adding new models to the range.

Replacing old ones (like replacing lots of old skaven ones) wouldn't need a new book since you're just replacing models. The addition of one or two new models also doesn't need a whole new book - esp as GW now makes the warscrolls free and includes them on the website, app and in the box

What would be a good idea would just be to put out Endless Spells for those 3 armies and put the rules and points on the sheets within the box like they did for Slaanesh updated models in 40k. No new books, just $35 Endless Spell boxes and happy customers. Well, DoK need terrain too.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Oh, and that '1' in my Destiny pool? That's another d6 Pink Horrors.

Assuming horror banners don't change.

Nurgle's issue is the Cycle of Contagion allegiance ability is really bad. It tends to only be useful 2-3 turns of the game, and forces spellcasts by an army already hurting for wizards to make it work. The reason Nurgle actually performs decently is due to a handful of exploits, blightkings being undercosted, and summoning giving free extra stuff.

Anyways, looks like Tzeentch will have a number of new exploits to cheese out with. Can hardly believe I'm saying this but I'm actually glad because losing to Tzeentch OP is a hell of a lot less boring than losing to the current front-runners, and it will be satisfying seeing said front runners get blasted.

Yeah I’d say Nurgle need an update. My friend plays them a lot and they typically get their arse handed to them by basically everything we play.

Anyhow, Tzeentch look interesting. Not sure they needed more rules, I thought they were already performing well, but they look fun and very fluffy.

Voss wrote:
Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.

Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)

I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.

I played agaisnt a Tzeentch list that literally had ALL endless spells. The amount of bookeping he had to do was insane. I ended nearly with a headache just by looking at him play his list. He had like 3-4 papers full of anotations to keep track of what unit had what spells, his pink horror points, his summon points, etc...

 Galas wrote:

I played agaisnt a Tzeentch list that literally had ALL endless spells. The amount of bookeping he had to do was insane. I ended nearly with a headache just by looking at him play his list. He had like 3-4 papers full of anotations to keep track of what unit had what spells, his pink horror points, his summon points, etc...

Which is why Ogres are such a joy to play! Run, hit,and eat things! No things left now? Find another thing!

Speaking of Endless Spells and Ogres...

Fortunately endless spells still cost points, so armies without them aren't at a disadvantage. Yes an endless spell can be overpowered, but so can any other option. That is one point where I am very glad GW did it the way they did.

Now if they could make all endless spells works like the Ossiarch ones do, save they become uncontrolled when the wizard dies.

Yeah. I love endless spells , as they cost points, maybe they are too good, maybe they are too weak, but you can tweak points to adjust them. And if you don't take them, well, you have those points vs a player that has taken them. They aren't different from any kind of unit.

Terrain in the other hand as it is "free", it becomes mandatory and becomes an extra purchase on top of your battletome, or you are losing some of your alligance habilities.

I can see why GW pushed terrain - GW wanted to break into the terrain market in a serious way. Faction terrain was one approach, the other has been games like Warcry and Killteam - Warcry especailly basically makes it so that buying a £40-50 ish block of terrain off GW gives you terrain and a game in one box for your warcry models. They've even interfaced the cards so that different terrain kits can "add together" which adds a bit of a collecting aspect to them.

so armies without them aren't at a disadvantage

The only army without native access to endless spells/equivalent I can think of would be Kharadron. Everyone else has access to wizards which can use generic endless spells, or prayers/rituals which are in effect the same thing.
So even if Ogres don't have their own endless spells,they still have access to every endless spell in Malign Sorcery and Forbidden Power expansions. Which is why I think they stopped giving every faction ES- there's only so many ways you can write "move 6" and do D3/D6 MW" that most spells amount to.

H.B.M.C. will be so proud!

(You're both...not wrong, of course!)

The tzeentch endless spells are up.
Quirky.

It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy

for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.

This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.

Voss wrote:
The tzeentch endless spells are up.
Quirky.

It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy

for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.

This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.

The way I took it is you roll to see what the sigil does first, then you select the target.