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BrianDavion wrote:

you've also got a varity of vehicles etc.


1k sons have access to in their index (and we have no reason to assume this will be changed)

Sorcrers
Exaulted sorcs,
demon princes,
rubric marines
Sacarab occult terminators
Hellbrutes (if the mutated nature of them doesn't work for you buy a space marine dreadnought)
Rhinos
Vindicators,
predators,
land raiders

and more.

they have a pretty solid armory if you wanna do a "pure chaos marine" force

But what if i want to do a "pure thousand sons marine" force? Then what? For a "pure thousand sons" codex, options are limited. Rubrics and scarabs. And 'sorcerors' as hq. There's a lot there i could go into, but i won't.

I mean, I get you don't really like how your army is being written, but tbf that's pretty much always been tsons fluff. They use lots of different forces and alternatives to compensate for the rubric fiasco, it severely limited what they can do with just their marines. Last edition was pretty much the exact same thing.

I can sympathize, but the question you just asked was kinda like asking "what if want a pure ogryn force", wondering why you can't have an ogryn sniper or something.

Which doesn't mean you can't do it, you can play only tson marines with no vehicles, auxiliaries or demons. It'll just struggle every bit as much as you'd expect if your army was entirely sorcerers and extremely limited suits of animated armor. It is an excellent translation of the fluff to the table top.

Yeah, but Tsons are a force, much like ultramarines or blood angels. Saying you shouldn't have many ultramarines or blood angels in a pure ultramarines or blood angels army is a bit off..... The best justification i can get to that is: death guard get it as well..... which doesn't seem right, either. It's not codex: imperial soup, it's codex: <insert imperial marine faction here>.

Why should the chaos factions bend over for it when the imperials don't?

edit: if we look at imperials, every unit in the list gets <chapter keyword> other than vehicles/tanks. Yet 1ksons (and yes, deathguard) get 1 troop, 1 elite and a hq unit. That's a pretty big difference in codex style.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Yeah, but Tsons are a force, much like ultramarines or blood angels. Saying you shouldn't have many ultramarines or blood angels in a pure ultramarines or blood angels army is a bit off..... The best justification i can get to that is: death guard get it as well..... which doesn't seem right, either. It's not codex: imperial soup, it's codex: <insert imperial marine faction here>.

Why should the chaos factions bend over for it when the imperials don't?[

edit: if we look at imperials, every unit in the list gets <chapter keyword> other than vehicles/tanks. Yet 1ksons (and yes, deathguard) get 1 troop, 1 elite and a hq unit. That's a pretty big difference in codex style.

But are the 40k thousand sons really comparable to ultramarines, or even a csm faction like black legion? Not really, that is what the whole rubric thing means really. They simply can't function as a pure legion of marines, the rubric of Ahriman robbed them of that. It is a big part of what defines them thematically. It may not be to everyone's taste, but it is very fitting for the tson lore that they draw more heavily on outside forces to succeed than a legion that didn't turn 99% of their marines into animated suits of armor incapable of independent thought.

I'd also point out that this is generally to our benefit mechanically, so it hardly seems reasonable to call it favoritism or anything similar.

As far as the keyword thing goes, I'm not sure what you mean. Every unit in DG codex beyond the actual daemons gains the deathguard keyword, even the daemon engines. Presumably the same will be true of tsons codex. If you are talking about chapter tactics, then presumably the tson tactic will apply to every no vehicle in their codex, just as it did for deathguard (admittedly some of our units don't benefit in any real way, or benefit competitively little).

SilverAlien wrote:
But are the 40k thousand sons really comparable to ultramarines, or even a csm faction like black legion?

I would hope so? They're in the position they're in because GW put them there. I remember back in the day before the rubric even existed. Yes, i believe they are worthy of 'full faction' status.

SilverAlien wrote:
Not really, that is what the whole rubric thing means really. They simply can't function as a pure legion of marines, the rubric of Ahriman robbed them of that. It is a big part of what defines them thematically. It may not be to everyone's taste, but it is very fitting for the tson lore that they draw more heavily on outside forces to succeed than a legion that didn't turn 99% of their marines into animated suits of armor incapable of independent thought.

As others have said previously, there's no reason those automated suits can't operate the heavy weapons or bikes they were operating previously. They're only now capable of operating boltguns/flamers. No offense, i just don't see that as 'fitting'. I see it as "lets release 3 kits and call it a faction like we've done before". I don't excuse it with other factions (admech, grey knights,gs cults, etc) and i don't excuse it with an army i actually liked/had.

SilverAlien wrote:
I'd also point out that this is generally to our benefit mechanically, so it hardly seems reasonable to call it favoritism or anything similar.

How exactly is having 3 kits - 1 troop, 1 elite, and 1 hq - a mechanical benefit? Only those specified 3 kits actually receive 1k sons rules. I'm pretty sure no-one here is calling what they got 'favouritism'. Marines favouritism? Maybe. Eldar favouristism? Probably. 1ksons/deathguard favouritism? No, not really.

SilverAlien wrote:
As far as the keyword thing goes, I'm not sure what you mean. Every unit in DG codex beyond the actual daemons gains the deathguard keyword, even the daemon engines. Presumably the same will be true of tsons codex. If you are talking about chapter tactics, then presumably the tson tactic will apply to every no vehicle in their codex, just as it did for deathguard (admittedly some of our units don't benefit in any real way, or benefit competitively little).

You're right, i was off with the <keyword>. What i meant, is that in a 1ksons list, only 3 units are actually 1ksons. Just like in deathguard only 3 units are actually deathguard. The rest may share the <keyword>, but they're not actually <chaos marine unit> units. Compare this with bangels (my first army). Every infantry unit is a bangel, with base stats + chapter affiliation. Tactical marines have the base <bangel> attributes. Whereas in 1ksons (or deathguard), less than a handful of units actually have the <legion> rules going for them. So you can have tzeentch (or nurgle) marines in a 1ksons (or deathguard) army..... they're not 1ksons (or deathguard). Whereas in an 'imperial marine' codex, every unit (aside from the vehicles apparently) are 'imperial marine' units. That is the problem i have with the new chaos 'mini dexes'.

Some people may not mind a 'pure' list that consists of 'soup', but i'm not one of them. Arguments and harsh words may arise because of that.

 Torga_DW wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

you've also got a varity of vehicles etc.


1k sons have access to in their index (and we have no reason to assume this will be changed)

Sorcrers
Exaulted sorcs,
demon princes,
rubric marines
Sacarab occult terminators
Hellbrutes (if the mutated nature of them doesn't work for you buy a space marine dreadnought)
Rhinos
Vindicators,
predators,
land raiders

and more.

they have a pretty solid armory if you wanna do a "pure chaos marine" force

But what if i want to do a "pure thousand sons marine" force? Then what? For a "pure thousand sons" codex, options are limited. Rubrics and scarabs. And 'sorcerors' as hq. There's a lot there i could go into, but i won't.

Why you think those vehicles are not Thousand Sons units?

As others have said previously, there's no reason those automated suits can't operate the heavy weapons or bikes they were operating previously. They're only now capable of operating boltguns/flamers. No offense, i just don't see that as 'fitting'. I see it as "lets release 3 kits and call it a faction like we've done before". I don't excuse it with other factions (admech, grey knights,gs cults, etc) and i don't excuse it with an army i actually liked/had.

So let me guess, you are mostly a 30k player? Because it honestly sounds like you don't know much behind the Tsons 40k lore. Yes, they cannot operate bikes because they are in a state that's clearly not lucid, basically in a dreamlike state that has to be directed by the Sorcerers (Old rules had penalties for the squad if the Sorcerer died as a result) .. Things that cannot be done when driven at Bike or Disc Speeds because the Sorcerer would need to be able to properly command them and direct them while dealing with thing. They also cannot really operate anything beyond bolters unless it's modeled into their suit which is why they can use heavy weapons in a Terminator suit because they can feel it apart of their body. The flamers are new though so I feel they might be flexible with changing out weaponry, but it seems like they want to keep Rubrics in that sort of psuedo anti-infantry state.

In their first incarnation they used Tzaangors and the like to makeup for their rubrics limited nature and had massive slaves to help fight in combat, entire warbands full of non-rubrics being led by Sorcerers.. In 3.5 the next time they were seen they were still unable to use Bikers, Raptors, or Havocs and relied entirely upon vehicles, sorcerers, and terminators for heavy weaponry..

It's honestly like people who are discussing this don't actually know their armies lore going in here. Because a lot of these have been around for ages by now.

Crimson wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

Why you think those vehicles are not Thousand Sons units?

Those 'vehicles' aren't imperial marine units, why would they be 1ksons units? Do they get 1ksons rules? I'll skip to the boring part and answer my own question - no. Out of interest, why did you focus on 'vehicles' as thousand son units? Like i said, they get 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq unit as "thousand sons". Out of a whole codex. You know what? It may just be me. It frequently is. But i think that's appalling for a 'dedicated' codex. That's less than grey knights, and *they* have issues. You want to field 1ksons marines? Well have some tzaangors that were transferred from AoS. That's close enough..... no? No.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
So let me guess, you are mostly a 30k player? Because it honestly sounds like you don't know much behind the Tsons 40k lore. Yes, they cannot operate bikes because they are in a state that's clearly not lucid, basically in a dreamlike state that has to be directed by the Sorcerers (Old rules had penalties for the squad if the Sorcerer died as a result) .. Things that cannot be done when driven at Bike or Disc Speeds because the Sorcerer would need to be able to properly command them and direct them while dealing with thing. They also cannot really operate anything beyond bolters unless it's modeled into their suit which is why they can use heavy weapons in a Terminator suit because they can feel it apart of their body. The flamers are new though so I feel they might be flexible with changing out weaponry, but it seems like they want to keep Rubrics in that sort of psuedo anti-infantry state.

In their first incarnation they used Tzaangors and the like to makeup for their rubrics limited nature and had massive slaves to help fight in combat, entire warbands full of non-rubrics being led by Sorcerers.. In 3.5 the next time they were seen they were still unable to use Bikers, Raptors, or Havocs and relied entirely upon vehicles, sorcerers, and terminators for heavy weaponry..

It's honestly like people who are discussing this don't actually know their armies lore going in here. Because a lot of these have been around for ages by now.

I was following the 1ksons lore *before* they had the rubric. They used to be just a chaos army that had a lot of psykers, to the point that most of them were psykers. Angry, bitter veterans that were the masters of magic. Yes, in 1st edition there was a big mish-mash, and god-specific beastmen existed. And until they popped up in age of sigmar for tzeentch, they remained dead in the 40k universe. Hell, imperial guard used to have beastmen regiments. Yes, i've followed their degeneration over the years. In 3.5 they didn't have tzaangors, and bloodletters had a 3+ loincloth armour save compared to the rest of the daemons. This seems to have culminated in some people being happy with them having 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq choice to justify them as unique. Do i think that's right, in any way shape or form? No. Opinions may obviously differ. But as far as the topic goes, i'm inclined to agree with the OP. *Thousand sons* are dead. But we're all entitled to disagree.

 Torga_DW wrote:


Those 'vehicles' aren't imperial marine units, why would they be 1ksons units? Do they get 1ksons rules? I'll skip to the boring part and answer my own question - no. Out of interest, why did you focus on 'vehicles' as thousand son units?

I really have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, marine vehicles are marine units. Only Dreadnoughts (Helbrutes) get chapter tactics though.

 Crimson wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:


Those 'vehicles' aren't imperial marine units, why would they be 1ksons units? Do they get 1ksons rules? I'll skip to the boring part and answer my own question - no. Out of interest, why did you focus on 'vehicles' as thousand son units?

I really have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, marine vehicles are marine units. Only Dreadnoughts (Helbrutes) get chapter tactics though.

Out of interest, look at the <chapter> rules. Like you say, the <infantry> and the <dreadnoughts> (<helbrutes&gt get the <chapter>/<legion> specific rules. Rhinos, predators, landraiders - they're all "generic".

Only the 1ksons don't get <helbrute> rules. So the 1ksons 'rules' are limited to - 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq. Any other 'imperial marine' codex gets an individual set of rules for *all* their infantry. 1ksons get 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq.

I feel like i'm arguing here (and to be fair, i am angry and drunk lol), but i come to the forums to have a 'discussion'. Why exactly do you associate vehicles with a particular marine army? Given that in this case, they have a lesser subset? The thing i can't get past, and forgive me if i'm missing the 'bigger picture', is that the army has exactly 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq to make it distinct? As a former bangels player, i had an entire codex (at various points) worth of infantry all with unique 'bangels' rules. But in this case? There's 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq worth of 'chapter specific' units. There's no 1ksons devastators or bikers or assault marines. Where i'm approaching this from: it just seems like a cheap cash grab, and not a 'serious' attempt at a codex. When they don't compare favourably to an arguably redundant imperial codex? To me, that's a problem.

I want to get 'drawn in'. I want to want to buy them. But what i'm seeing is less than the grey knights got. And at this point, its very arguable if the grey knights deserve a codex of their own (sorry grey knights players, i feel your pain). This just seems like codex: tzeentch armies we've released for 40k and AoS in the last couple of years. As a fan of thousand sons? I find that offensive. I've said it multiple times in my post and i think it's worth saying again: the 'actual' thousand sons units in the codex are: 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq. That just strikes me as wrong.

 Torga_DW wrote:

Out of interest, look at the <chapter> rules. Like you say, the <infantry> and the <dreadnoughts> (<helbrutes&gt get the <chapter>/<legion> specific rules. Rhinos, predators, landraiders - they're all "generic".

So what? That's same for everybody. Ultramarine Predator is still an Ultramarine unit.

Only the 1ksons don't get <helbrute> rules.

Yes they do. If it it is for some reason omitted in the codex (which I doubt) it's still in the index.

And you're right, they have less space marine units than many other chapters/legions (though you bizarrely keep ignoring units that they have.) Big part of that is based on their fluff. They've got servants to compensate for that.

So Tzaangors don't count for that? They get the Thousand Sons keyword and all. I play Slaanesh though, you've gotten far more then I have both Daemon and Thousand Sons wise.

Reading through this entire thread, it seems like some people just want Thousand sons to have everything Chaos Space Marines have, but more on top of that.


So, what...is that what was supposed to happen with the other three Cult legions, too? Just make them a reason to never play vanilla Chaos Marines, because each cult codex would be able to do everything the vanilla codex can, but also their unique awesome stuff, too?

I know I have been throwing around the idea for months now of building a skirmish force of Thousand Sons in games of One Page 40k (Or Grimdark Future, as it's named now) using a Thousand Sons kit and a box of Zaangors, to have a Sorcerer leading a few Rubric Marines with Zaangors performing the role of Cultists for other legions. Probably would have included some of the other Zaangor options even before this Codex announced them, as it just seems fitting.

 Crimson wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

Out of interest, look at the <chapter> rules. Like you say, the <infantry> and the <dreadnoughts> (<helbrutes&gt get the <chapter>/<legion> specific rules. Rhinos, predators, landraiders - they're all "generic".

So what? That's same for everybody. Ultramarine Predator is still an Ultramarine unit.

But ultramarines have *more* non-vehicle units than just 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq. A lot more. A full codex more. This is my problem.

 Crimson wrote:

Only the 1ksons don't get <helbrute> rules.

Yes they do. If it it is for some reason omitted in the codex (which I doubt) it's still in the index.

And you're right, they have less space marine units than many other chapters/legions (though you bizarrely keep ignoring units that they have.) Big part of that is based on their fluff. They've got servants to compensate for that.

Well, i won't go into the index issue. But the guys who write the codex write the fluff..... we only have 3 units that are actually 1ksons? Well the fluff is there's only now 3 units that are actually 1ksons. Everyone else in the list exists to serve the 3 units out of however many that make up a codex.

I guess it's just a fundamental perspective issue. You seem to be fine with it. Fair enough. I'm not. I don't buy from GW, and i'm not likely to at this rate. That's just my demographic, i guess.

edit: quotes

These guys just dont get it. They are looking at the codex literally. They see Tzaangors and see they have Thousand Sons. That's not what we are getting at. Those are NOT Thousand Sons. Those are beastmen with Thousand Sons rules.

 nintura wrote:
These guys just dont get it. They are looking at the codex literally. They see Tzaangors and see they have Thousand Sons. That's not what we are getting at. Those are NOT Thousand Sons. Those are beastmen with Thousand Sons rules.

I get that. But marine vehicles in the codex are actually Thousand Sons exactly as much as Ultramarine vehicles are actually Ultramarines.

So? Then that mean in the new codex that Thousand Sons warbands can field special beastmen that other legions do not have access to. It would make sense to include them in the Thousand Sons codex. Same as how Poxwalkers are not Death Guard marines, but are in that codex. Things have changed for the Cult Legions over 10k years to make them different from their 30k iterations, thats the point.

Its not like Deathguard have Assault Marines, or Khorne would have Devastators.

Some of you are just arguing over semantics.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
So? Then that mean in the new codex that Thousand Sons warbands can field special beastmen that other legions do not have access to. It would make sense to include them in the Thousand Sons codex. Same as how Poxwalkers are not Death Guard marines, but are in that codex.

To continue the above quote..... But? They're not thousand sons. They're beastmen with codex rules. Yes, poxwalkers are in deathguard codex, but...... they're not deathguard. I'm capable of seeing *beyond* my particular codex. Look at the people who have made death guard complaints? I think they're valid. It's the same thing - a codex with 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq. Hell, grey knights have 'more' technically, but i still think they're lacking. 1ksons codex should be about 1ksons, not 'lesser soup' units contained inside a codex extraneous of 'actual' soup. I keep saying this, 1ksons have 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq. That does not a codex make, at least not by existing standards (and lately those standards have been relaxed some).

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:
These guys just dont get it. They are looking at the codex literally. They see Tzaangors and see they have Thousand Sons. That's not what we are getting at. Those are NOT Thousand Sons. Those are beastmen with Thousand Sons rules.

I get that. But marine vehicles in the codex are actually Thousand Sons exactly as much as Ultramarine vehicles are actually Ultramarines.

And how many different infantry, bike, etc units of Ultramarines are there? 20? 25? Thousand Sons has 3.

 nintura wrote:

And how many different infantry, bike, etc units of Ultramarines are there? 20? 25? Thousand Sons has 3.

Then play Ultramarines! If you don't like the fact that TS are golems with very limited intelligence led by sorcerers and employing servants, then it is a wrong army for you.

I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

As others have said previously, there's no reason those automated suits can't operate the heavy weapons or bikes they were operating previously. They're only now capable of operating boltguns/flamers. No offense, i just don't see that as 'fitting'. I see it as "lets release 3 kits and call it a faction like we've done before". I don't excuse it with other factions (admech, grey knights,gs cults, etc) and i don't excuse it with an army i actually liked/had.

So let me guess, you are mostly a 30k player? Because it honestly sounds like you don't know much behind the Tsons 40k lore. Yes, they cannot operate bikes because they are in a state that's clearly not lucid, basically in a dreamlike state that has to be directed by the Sorcerers (Old rules had penalties for the squad if the Sorcerer died as a result) .. Things that cannot be done when driven at Bike or Disc Speeds because the Sorcerer would need to be able to properly command them and direct them while dealing with thing. They also cannot really operate anything beyond bolters unless it's modeled into their suit which is why they can use heavy weapons in a Terminator suit because they can feel it apart of their body. The flamers are new though so I feel they might be flexible with changing out weaponry, but it seems like they want to keep Rubrics in that sort of psuedo anti-infantry state.

In their first incarnation they used Tzaangors and the like to makeup for their rubrics limited nature and had massive slaves to help fight in combat, entire warbands full of non-rubrics being led by Sorcerers.. In 3.5 the next time they were seen they were still unable to use Bikers, Raptors, or Havocs and relied entirely upon vehicles, sorcerers, and terminators for heavy weaponry..

It's honestly like people who are discussing this don't actually know their armies lore going in here. Because a lot of these have been around for ages by now.

Yep they cant have bikes, discs etc. but they CAN have heavy weapons, special weapons etc. it is a straight weapon swap, now if you are saying that they can only have the weapons they had when the rubric hit, then explain to us where the legion era weapons, autocannons, lascannons etc. if it can only be weapons "modeled on there suit"

I always assumed it was because Rubric Automatons have so little consciousness left they cannot pick out specific valuable targets as Devastators, nor do they have the battlefield initiative to act as assault squads. They simply advance and lay down a fullisade of bolter or flamer fire, which the rotary cannon (can't remember the name) also functions as. It's all the Sorcerers equip them with.

There's no Grimdark tragedy in the Rubric if it didn't do anything bad to the marines other than cure their mutations and leave them as fully capable as the other legions. They are walking boltguns. It was a Phyrric victory.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

No, they are a vocal minority. I am a 1kson player and im quite happy about the codex drop + tzaangors. Sure I would like to see the rubric concept expanded upon but Im not holding my breath for a variety of reasons.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I always assumed it was because Rubric Automatons have so little consciousness left they cannot pick out specific valuable targets as Devastators, nor do they have the battlefield initiative to act as assault squads. They simply advance and lay down a fullisade of bolter or flamer fire, which the rotary cannon (can't remember the name) also functions as. It's all the Sorcerers equip them with.

There's no Grimdark tragedy in the Rubric if it didn't do anything bad to the marines other than cure their mutations and leave them as fully capable as the other legions. They are walking boltguns. It was a Phyrric victory.

I agree they dont have the iniciative to be assault marines etc. but they still have the equipment and ability to have assault troops, just not the jet packs, as for being able to pick out targets, if you can hit an enemy taking cover, ducking and weaving as soldiers are trained to do, you can hit a tank.

So as I said before, the new codex really does need to explain why the sorcerers are so stupid that they have somehow forgotten there training, decided not to equip the rubrics properly etc.

Otherwise its GW's no model no rules policy and it can suck the fat one lol, because the fluff doesnt support the inconsistancy in the fluff right now.

 Formosa wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

As others have said previously, there's no reason those automated suits can't operate the heavy weapons or bikes they were operating previously. They're only now capable of operating boltguns/flamers. No offense, i just don't see that as 'fitting'. I see it as "lets release 3 kits and call it a faction like we've done before". I don't excuse it with other factions (admech, grey knights,gs cults, etc) and i don't excuse it with an army i actually liked/had.

So let me guess, you are mostly a 30k player? Because it honestly sounds like you don't know much behind the Tsons 40k lore. Yes, they cannot operate bikes because they are in a state that's clearly not lucid, basically in a dreamlike state that has to be directed by the Sorcerers (Old rules had penalties for the squad if the Sorcerer died as a result) .. Things that cannot be done when driven at Bike or Disc Speeds because the Sorcerer would need to be able to properly command them and direct them while dealing with thing. They also cannot really operate anything beyond bolters unless it's modeled into their suit which is why they can use heavy weapons in a Terminator suit because they can feel it apart of their body. The flamers are new though so I feel they might be flexible with changing out weaponry, but it seems like they want to keep Rubrics in that sort of psuedo anti-infantry state.

In their first incarnation they used Tzaangors and the like to makeup for their rubrics limited nature and had massive slaves to help fight in combat, entire warbands full of non-rubrics being led by Sorcerers.. In 3.5 the next time they were seen they were still unable to use Bikers, Raptors, or Havocs and relied entirely upon vehicles, sorcerers, and terminators for heavy weaponry..

It's honestly like people who are discussing this don't actually know their armies lore going in here. Because a lot of these have been around for ages by now.

Yep they cant have bikes, discs etc. but they CAN have heavy weapons, special weapons etc. it is a straight weapon swap, now if you are saying that they can only have the weapons they had when the rubric hit, then explain to us where the legion era weapons, autocannons, lascannons etc. if it can only be weapons "modeled on there suit"

I'm saying that's how they've always been done in the rules when Thousand Sons were given rules. They've specifically made it so that they could not take anything but the specialized inferno bolters given power by the Sorcerers. It's ALWAYS been like this, this is not new codex fluff rules. This is something that's been around since.. Well, Rogue Trader.

Otherwise its GW's no model no rules policy and it can suck the fat one lol, because the fluff doesnt support the inconsistancy in the fluff right now.

What fluff inconsistency?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I always assumed it was because Rubric Automatons have so little consciousness left they cannot pick out specific valuable targets as Devastators, nor do they have the battlefield initiative to act as assault squads. They simply advance and lay down a fullisade of bolter or flamer fire, which the rotary cannon (can't remember the name) also functions as. It's all the Sorcerers equip them with.

There's no Grimdark tragedy in the Rubric if it didn't do anything bad to the marines other than cure their mutations and leave them as fully capable as the other legions. They are walking boltguns. It was a Phyrric victory.

And this. The rubric was not a blessing. It has very real unintended backdraws with thankfully a few blessings to balance it out. It was a spell gone haywire. What you see is a unintended result of the rubric failing. They could never survive as a legion if they just had rubrics. They have to rely on tzaangors and other slaves/hirelings/henchmen to fill the roles now left empty.

However I do not blame the players who bought into the rubric porn GW has been pushing for years. And its what im hoping the codex fixes.

Table wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

No, they are a vocal minority. I am a 1kson player and im quite happy about the codex drop + tzaangors. Sure I would like to see the rubric concept expanded upon but Im not holding my breath for a variety of reasons.

All i have been asking for the UNIT ENTRIES, just making sure thats mega clear, so I can convert my Tsons myself and use that expanded list, that would make the 1 kit available for Tsons fill a lot of different roles, as I have said all along, give us the basics then expand from there.

Been doing some more reading on here and read some interesting posts.

To Address some things people have said:

"Rubrics are limited in thier capabilities"

Yes, but they can still point guns and pull triggers. So a heavy weapons squad is doable.

So lets see if I can come up with a system which would cover most of the needs of an army.

First, we pick a bonus for each of the Cults, all 5 nothing crazy, we can even all them boni since we like to use latin for everything. Each detachment can pick 1 and they get the bonus associated with the Cult. We also would have a spell list for each Cult only 3 spells each but thematic. You also have access to the Tzeentch list as well.

Next, pull the AS out of the Rubric squad give him an extra wound adjust the points accordingly, give him a 3" aura which has the followimg effect: When ever you perils with your smite spell, roll a d6 on a 3+ the enegries are channeled into a nearby Rubric which has been rendered inoperable and restores it to life, if you fail the roll or there are no dead rubrics near by you suffer perils as normal. Make him a Character and an Elites choice.

Next up is heavy support, watch this, 3 man squad of SOT which can all take one of the following missle racks or flamers or cannons.

HQ guess what? Yank that SOT from the Squad make him an HQ give him 3-4 wounds adds a +1 to the AS aura ability.

FA same as they did add Tzaangor disk riders.

Oh and lastly get rid of that stupid invul save and give them the same bonus Salamanders have.

It really does seem like most just want Spikey Marines without caring for the fluff background. Something I'm glad they moved away from when it came from the old 4th codex.

Because nobody seems to be telling me where the new fluff inconsistency comes from given that Rubrics never really had heavy weaponry.