Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Then if you're convinced golems can't do things, then give us Aspiring Sorc led heavy weapons like Thunderfires for example. Or Sorc lead Rubric Heavy weapon squads. Jesus, it's not hard.

 Torga_DW wrote:
I think the problem is, if they're going to release an army book for a subfaction, then they need more representation of that faction than 2-3 kits/squads/whatever. It goes for 1ksons, deathguard, *grey knights*, now custodes. As someone who used to play 1ksons, having only a few 1kson units in a dedicated list is just appalling. I won't even go into their effectiveness ppm.

As someone who also used to play blood angels, i wouldn't be happy if i bought the blood angels codex and there were only 2-3 bangel units in it. The rest were imperial guard, sisters, inquisition. Oh, they don't fight as a legion anymore, that was 10k years ago. Now they're integrated into the imperium. Even as i write this, i'm getting a lot of irony from the fact that 'soup' lists are now a thing.

I'm so glad you brought up BA, because the vast majority of units in that book are not unique to them.

 nintura wrote:
Then if you're convinced golems can't do things, then give us Aspiring Sorc led heavy weapons like Thunderfires for example. Or Sorc lead Rubric Heavy weapon squads. Jesus, it's not hard.

Convinced.. Yes, because the fluff.. You know what rather then just deal with that, let's get a bit inventive then rather then "Rubric's with heavy weapons" How about an Aspiring Sorcerer Squad that fires off heavy doombolts by channeling together in one Psychic Choir of destruction, they have several modes of fire from calling down fires from Tzeentch himself in an artillery, to a channeled beam that tears a line through everything it hits, growing weaker with each thing hit but being really destructive to armor.

Unless the goal really is "Lets just use golems as an equivalent to every other marine faction"

I'm fine with that! Anything as long as it's really Thousand Sons, veterans of the long war against the imperium. Anything that does something like that is fine! Thousand Sons dreads, hell I'd be fine with models from CSM as long as they had upgrades that let them look the part and had the rules to follow suit. A psyker dread would be great! But the only option is from Forge World which not everyone lets you play with.

Yeah that's fair, I do actually believe they should have a dread type. Knowing Tsons it's probably made of crystals and somehow amplifies the power of the Sorcerer inside and they're halfway insane because of the power surge.

Dreads are pretty universal, and it'd be interesting to see like.. A rubric dread that isn't your standard dreadnought, but like an enhanced huge power armored monster built with several souls controlling it at once, letting it field some interesting weaponry.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

Yes thats what it is not enough. Did you even read the OP?

And lets be clear OUR Primarch works best with a Daemon army. Hes a big red bitch and always will be.

No one is complaining about Rubrics and SOT so why bring that up?

This has nothing to do with not enough, it is about my thousand sons army have 500 points of thousand sons and 1500 points of random bs.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

Yes thats what it is not enough. Did you even read the OP?

And lets be clear OUR Primarch works best with a Daemon army. Hes a big red bitch and always will be.

No one is complaining about Rubrics and SOT so why bring that up?

This has nothing to do with not enough, it is about my thousand sons army have 500 points of thousand sons and 1500 points of random bs.

Your army can be 2000 points of Thousand Sons if you want it to. No one is making you take Tzaangors etc.

And if your response is 'you have to to be competitive', at least wait for the book to be released, because we have no idea if thats true or not at this point.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

Yes thats what it is not enough. Did you even read the OP?

And lets be clear OUR Primarch works best with a Daemon army. Hes a big red bitch and always will be.

No one is complaining about Rubrics and SOT so why bring that up?

This has nothing to do with not enough, it is about my thousand sons army have 500 points of thousand sons and 1500 points of random bs.

Your army can be 2000 points of Thousand Sons if you want it to. No one is making you take Tzaangors etc.

And if your response is 'you have to to be competitive', at least wait for the book to be released, because we have no idea if thats true or not at this point.

Sure. Ok. Lets look at this then. An all Rubric/Occult army. Ok, I rapid fire my bolters except I'm slower than you so you get the charge, so I'll stay outside of rapid fire range. Either way, I'll fire my bolters. Maybe my warp flamers. Welp, that squads done. NExt squad. Lets fire bolters. Next squad. Fire more bolters. Next squad. Fire more bolters.

Smite? Nah, if I fudge it, i'll blow up 2-4 models because I have 1 wound. And each one gets harder. Other spells? Sorry, dont have any more. Let's just repeat this. For. Every. Single. Game. Ever.

Guess how long people will play that army.

 Formosa wrote:

Table wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

No, they are a vocal minority. I am a 1kson player and im quite happy about the codex drop + tzaangors. Sure I would like to see the rubric concept expanded upon but Im not holding my breath for a variety of reasons.

All i have been asking for the UNIT ENTRIES, just making sure thats mega clear, so I can convert my Tsons myself and use that expanded list, that would make the 1 kit available for Tsons fill a lot of different roles, as I have said all along, give us the basics then expand from there.

I get what you are saying. But sadly GW has a strict No model No rules stance, thanks to chapter approved debacle. You have full right to complain about it since it has a negative effect on you. This is not going to change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nintura wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I didn't think I'd ever see any other faction whine as much as Sisters do but god damn Thousand Sons players have stolen the crown. Got a Primarch, beautiful new models, and a codex coming soon, but you'd think Games Workshop slaughtered their first born children because, "IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!"

Yes thats what it is not enough. Did you even read the OP?

And lets be clear OUR Primarch works best with a Daemon army. Hes a big red bitch and always will be.

No one is complaining about Rubrics and SOT so why bring that up?

This has nothing to do with not enough, it is about my thousand sons army have 500 points of thousand sons and 1500 points of random bs.

Your army can be 2000 points of Thousand Sons if you want it to. No one is making you take Tzaangors etc.

And if your response is 'you have to to be competitive', at least wait for the book to be released, because we have no idea if thats true or not at this point.

Sure. Ok. Lets look at this then. An all Rubric/Occult army. Ok, I rapid fire my bolters except I'm slower than you so you get the charge, so I'll stay outside of rapid fire range. Either way, I'll fire my bolters. Maybe my warp flamers. Welp, that squads done. NExt squad. Lets fire bolters. Next squad. Fire more bolters. Next squad. Fire more bolters.

Smite? Nah, if I fudge it, i'll blow up 2-4 models because I have 1 wound. And each one gets harder. Other spells? Sorry, dont have any more. Let's just repeat this. For. Every. Single. Game. Ever.

Guess how long people will play that army.

Smite nerf is still in beta. It is not a forgone conclusion. Im actually willing to bet it does not see the light of day in its current form because it breaks as much as it fixs. Im betting they come to this idea and make it so that smite scales in difficulty per model instead of global. So why is it that everyone is acting like like the nerf is in stone when it is clearly not?

 ImAGeek wrote:


Your army can be 2000 points of Thousand Sons if you want it to. No one is making you take Tzaangors etc.

And if your response is 'you have to to be competitive', at least wait for the book to be released, because we have no idea if thats true or not at this point.

This is not about competitiveness, its about having any chance of winning a game at all. If I have 6 units of Rubrics and 2 units of SOT thats over 1k in points but the Sorcs in those squads will be useless now.

I don't need the book to know what holes we have in the army and that we are not getting any variations on rubric marines. Which means all the holes im filling now with CSM units will be filled with Tzaangor units instead. So im going to have 100 Tzzangors and either 20 Rubrics or 10 SOT. Thats a 5 to 1 ratio how is that a CSM army?

Id rather have different spells in my Aspiring Sorcs (Why are they Aspiring? and why do they know less than GK psyker sergeants?)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It really does seem like most just want Spikey Marines without caring for the fluff background. Something I'm glad they moved away from when it came from the old 4th codex.

Because nobody seems to be telling me where the new fluff inconsistency comes from given that Rubrics never really had heavy weaponry.

If you know the fluff as well as you claimed, you would know, plus I have said several times on here, but again I will spell it out.

Thousand sons legion has access to the ENTIRE legion army list, which means they had the full gambit of weapons and options in there legion, this includes non psychic Praetors, veterans etc.

The Wolves attack Prospero and destroy an unknown number of the legion, likely a large part of it though, Magnus transports the entire legions from Prospero to the planet of the sorcerers.

so we know that the legion by this point has lost a lot of kit, weapons and personel.

The legion spends an unknown amount of time on the POTS, both hundreds of years and a very short amount of time, Amon spends hundreds of years just searching for one shard of Magnus, we will assume more personel and equipment are lost at this point.

then we have the siege of terra, and guess what, even more loss of personel and equipment, after which they retreat to the POTS, then we have the Rubric around this time, so even with the loss of material and personel we still have whole units of Legion era equipped TSons.

Rubric Hits, the Tson that are not psykers are turned to dust, this is drivers, heavy weapon troopers, special weapon troopers, elite Tsons with unique equipment like power fists etc. Praetors, Chaplains, Champions etc. etc. all reduced to Rubricai, and then.............................................................................

These sorcerors are like "nah lads, we dont want you to keep those power weapons, and split up to match the codex spess mureens unit make up, we dont want Havocs with heavy weapons on each guy, we dont want a fire support team for our rubrics, so just match what the sons of Guilliman are doing, 1 special and 1 heavy, per 5 of you!!!!!"

"Also forget all the powers you mastered during the crusade, you wont need them, instead you can use these new powers and fire mind bullets!!!!"

"we also need to update our kit so it looks cool, so lets make some new ammunition, but dont make anything else, at all, dont bother bartering for those tried and tested weapons we have lying around everywhere but have decided not to use!"

Jokes aside, THAT is the Tsons fluff, its inconsistent and doesnt make sense, there is not a single fluff reason why Rubrics cannot be put into other slots to flesh out the army, I can see no raptors, bikes etc. but not a single reason why we cant have a Standard bearer, special weapon squads, heavy weapon squads etc.

GW has never been able to get Tzeench right or Tsons, so the historical lack of Heavy weapons is there continued lack of imagination and knowledge of there own fluff.

Table wrote:
Smite nerf is still in beta. It is not a forgone conclusion. Im actually willing to bet it does not see the light of day in its current form because it breaks as much as it fixs. Im betting they come to this idea and make it so that smite scales in difficulty per model instead of global. So why is it that everyone is acting like like the nerf is in stone when it is clearly not?

It is in stone they just haven't announced it yet. I am will to bet you when the TS Codex drops they make it an offical rule.

It has already seen the light of day, we know about it right? They know exactly what they are doing. Do you honestly think they didn't think about TS and GK when that rule was pitched? They did and they concluded it would be best to let the community decide on whether it was a fair rule. Which is something they do all the time...

This gives people time to test the rule. By all means go run 1 game as TS and bring mostly Rubricae, see what happens. You will lose, hell even 3 Sorcs means your looking at a -2 on your 3 cast of smite. But once the Codex drops we will have enough spells to cast so no reason to make TS immune. Now AS and SOTS are non-psyker Psykers. So you bring 1 maxed out squad, and fill the rest of your army with Tzzangors with Icons of flame. Same effect less drawbacks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nintura wrote:
Id rather have different spells in my Aspiring Sorcs (Why are they Aspiring? and why do they know less than GK psyker sergeants?)

GK dont have Psyker Sgts. They have units of Psykers, the enitre squad are psykers.

Do we know whether the TS smite will change in the new codex? If the beta rules become real rules then maybe the new TS and GK will get new psychic rules: maybe they will get a proper version of smite rather than the nerfed one, maybe they'll get a different power, maybe TS legion tactics will counter the smite nerf. I wouldn't panic yet until the TS rules start getting leaked.

The GK squad leaders have smite lite plus one chosen power. We have Aspiring Sorcs in the strongest psyker army in the game and we get smite lite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Do we know whether the TS smite will change in the new codex? If the beta rules become real rules then maybe the new TS and GK will get new psychic rules: maybe they will get a proper version of smite rather than the nerfed one, maybe they'll get a different power, maybe TS legion tactics will counter the smite nerf. I wouldn't panic yet until the TS rules start getting leaked.

$10 says the rule will change with the 1K Sons codex and become official shortly after, 1k Sons will not be changed and will be forced to use this version of Smite. Gray Knights will get their dex and they'll either get a replacement for Smite or they'll play by a different rule for Smite.

 nintura wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Do we know whether the TS smite will change in the new codex? If the beta rules become real rules then maybe the new TS and GK will get new psychic rules: maybe they will get a proper version of smite rather than the nerfed one, maybe they'll get a different power, maybe TS legion tactics will counter the smite nerf. I wouldn't panic yet until the TS rules start getting leaked.

$10 says the rule will change with the 1K Sons codex and become official shortly after, 1k Sons will not be changed and will be forced to use this version of Smite. Gray Knights will get their dex and they'll either get a replacement for Smite or they'll play by a different rule for Smite.

Probably, but we'll complain when that is confirmed; all this is is pre-emptive whining.

 nintura wrote:
The GK squad leaders have smite lite plus one chosen power. We have Aspiring Sorcs in the strongest psyker army in the game and we get smite lite.

I thought you played Thousand Sons, not Craftworld Eldar...

 nintura wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Do we know whether the TS smite will change in the new codex? If the beta rules become real rules then maybe the new TS and GK will get new psychic rules: maybe they will get a proper version of smite rather than the nerfed one, maybe they'll get a different power, maybe TS legion tactics will counter the smite nerf. I wouldn't panic yet until the TS rules start getting leaked.

$10 says the rule will change with the 1K Sons codex and become official shortly after, 1k Sons will not be changed and will be forced to use this version of Smite. Gray Knights will get their dex and they'll either get a replacement for Smite or they'll play by a different rule for Smite.

You do remember that the GK codex has already happened, right? Or are you anticipating a post-psyker-nerf v2, or something?

My bad, most powerful psyker chapter/legion. And technically speaking, only Ulthwe should be higher.

 nintura wrote:
The GK squad leaders have smite lite plus one chosen power. We have Aspiring Sorcs in the strongest psyker army in the game and we get smite lite.

No they don't Psyker applies to the squad, not the Sgt.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Table wrote:
Smite nerf is still in beta. It is not a forgone conclusion. Im actually willing to bet it does not see the light of day in its current form because it breaks as much as it fixs. Im betting they come to this idea and make it so that smite scales in difficulty per model instead of global. So why is it that everyone is acting like like the nerf is in stone when it is clearly not?

It is in stone they just haven't announced it yet. I am will to bet you when the TS Codex drops they make it an offical rule.

It has already seen the light of day, we know about it right? They know exactly what they are doing. Do you honestly think they didn't think about TS and GK when that rule was pitched? They did and they concluded it would be best to let the community decide on whether it was a fair rule. Which is something they do all the time...

This gives people time to test the rule. By all means go run 1 game as TS and bring mostly Rubricae, see what happens. You will lose, hell even 3 Sorcs means your looking at a -2 on your 3 cast of smite. But once the Codex drops we will have enough spells to cast so no reason to make TS immune. Now AS and SOTS are non-psyker Psykers. So you bring 1 maxed out squad, and fill the rest of your army with Tzzangors with Icons of flame. Same effect less drawbacks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nintura wrote:
Id rather have different spells in my Aspiring Sorcs (Why are they Aspiring? and why do they know less than GK psyker sergeants?)

GK dont have Psyker Sgts. They have units of Psykers, the enitre squad are psykers.

If they havent announced it yet then it isnt in stone. Ill take that bet since the ruling has been announced that it is going into play testing at a GW tournament , I forget the tourney name, games day I think.

You are back to the mostly rubric argument? If you CHOOSE to take that many rubrics then the loss is on you. The codex gives you tools (or should) its up to you to use them. I think you have bought into the Rubric Porn GW has been pushing. The entire legion is not mostly rubrics. There would be no way to operate if that was the case. Tzaangors have been around quite a while and more than outnumber the Rubric marines.

Im sure they thought of that but im also sure they are not stupid, not the new GW anyhow. Old GW would have broke TS and GK and left them without a update for years to fix the fubar. I think they know those days are done as people wont stand for it any further (which is why they had to change in the first place). Even IF the nerf goes through, it wont make a clean break, you will just have to think about the order of smites and expect more to fail. Will it suck? Yes it will, but im confident it will get fixed at some point. And thats IF the rule goes through.

Well, new or expanded background in the new Codex should make for interesting reading - maybe that'll help clear some of these things up?

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, new or expanded background in the new Codex should make for interesting reading - maybe that'll help clear some of these things up?

thats what im hoping too

Look guys I realize you dont want to hear this but they have been waiting for the TS Codex to drop to make this Smite rule Official. Thats it, GK rely on thier spells a bit but they arent losing much due to the nature of how thier smite works plus they already have a +1 from Brotherhood of Psykers, TS will probably get Brotherhood of Sorcerers and you guessed it +1 to spells. Difference is we lean on our smite a lot more then GKs do since its basically there to augment our AS to the point where he can actually kill things in CC where as GK use it as a supplement to there already fething amazing melee.

I keep saying this the way our army played is dead, and almost everyone agrees with me but everyone argues...Why?

Am I wrong are Horde armies not the way to go this edition?

Because if so then that means the more Rubrics you bring the worse off you are. Less Rubricae and less Exalted, because now we have a cheap Caster for an HQ choice. That means the best 1k Sons army will have Ahriman, 3 Shamans, 1 20 man squad of Rubricae, 1 30 man squad of Tzaangors and the rest should be 10 man Tzzangors with Rhinos for Transport. You are literally going to have 100 Tzaangors on tge table and 21 actual TS models.

That is not "filling in some holes" that is reworking an entire army so the former backbone unit is now the Appendix, no one is sure why it's there but it can blow up and kill you.

Once people realize that they will drop the unit all togeather. Why waste a smite cast on psudo-smite when you can bring a real Sorcerer and get more out of your limited casts.

Eventually TS armies that win any games will be almost entirely Tzaangors with very few, if any, Rubricae.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
I think the problem is, if they're going to release an army book for a subfaction, then they need more representation of that faction than 2-3 kits/squads/whatever. It goes for 1ksons, deathguard, *grey knights*, now custodes. As someone who used to play 1ksons, having only a few 1kson units in a dedicated list is just appalling. I won't even go into their effectiveness ppm.

As someone who also used to play blood angels, i wouldn't be happy if i bought the blood angels codex and there were only 2-3 bangel units in it. The rest were imperial guard, sisters, inquisition. Oh, they don't fight as a legion anymore, that was 10k years ago. Now they're integrated into the imperium. Even as i write this, i'm getting a lot of irony from the fact that 'soup' lists are now a thing.

I'm so glad you brought up BA, because the vast majority of units in that book are not unique to them.

Yes. Yet they manage to have the rules unique to the bangels, that make them bangels. A scout squad is a bangels scout squad. A tactical squad is a bangels tactical squad. Its very much a case here of - no models, no rules. So the 1ksons get 1 troop, 1 elite and 1 hq, + filler to justify their codex.

While it seems a bit early to claim that the worst case scenario is guaranteed, and the only way to win with a Thousand Sons army is to field 100+ Tzaangors..well, I guess that's Dakka for you.

It will definitely support AoS sales figures, though! Will make it look like Tzeentch a pretty popular army when everyone is buying multiple boxes of Tzaangors.

The premature whine is strong in this thread

To be fair, none of the other elite infantry choices are any good. I don't see why Rubrics would break the mold.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Look guys I realize you dont want to hear this but they have been waiting for the TS Codex to drop to make this Smite rule Official. Thats it, GK rely on thier spells a bit but they arent losing much due to the nature of how thier smite works plus they already have a +1 from Brotherhood of Psykers, TS will probably get Brotherhood of Sorcerers and you guessed it +1 to spells. Difference is we lean on our smite a lot more then GKs do since its basically there to augment our AS to the point where he can actually kill things in CC where as GK use it as a supplement to there already fething amazing melee.

I keep saying this the way our army played is dead, and almost everyone agrees with me but everyone argues...Why?

Am I wrong are Horde armies not the way to go this edition?

Because if so then that means the more Rubrics you bring the worse off you are. Less Rubricae and less Exalted, because now we have a cheap Caster for an HQ choice. That means the best 1k Sons army will have Ahriman, 3 Shamans, 1 20 man squad of Rubricae, 1 30 man squad of Tzaangors and the rest should be 10 man Tzzangors with Rhinos for Transport. You are literally going to have 100 Tzaangors on tge table and 21 actual TS models.

That is not "filling in some holes" that is reworking an entire army so the former backbone unit is now the Appendix, no one is sure why it's there but it can blow up and kill you.

Once people realize that they will drop the unit all togeather. Why waste a smite cast on psudo-smite when you can bring a real Sorcerer and get more out of your limited casts.



Eventually TS armies that win any games will be almost entirely Tzaangors with very few, if any, Rubricae.

Im sorry, the last update I read was that the rule would enter play testing on games day. Now if they release the codex after that then you may be right. But as it stands there is no definitive drop date for the codex (i may be wrong). So with lack of evidence I have to say that you are jumping the gun here, big time. Unless you have some proof I have not read or seen. Then ill glady admit my error.

And how is the inclusion of Tzaangor models count as a revision of the army? Tzaangors have nearly always been a part of the 1ksons, now we have models to represent that, Id call it an expansion not a revision. Also, I want to take 6 land raiders and I expect to win. Sadly or happily the game does not work like that. But I think I am starting to see your problem. Last edition tzaangors were a small choice as only having one kit and you were rewarded for spamming rubrics. So people that actually bought those models and spammed them are now (maybe) at a disadvantage? This is how GW and many other business's operate, planned obsolescence is a sales tactic, and seeing as GW is a business it explains why it happens. They cannot stay in business with a bunch of one time purchasers. They need people to keep buying models. How is this important to you as a consumer? Eventually down the road they will release something you want, and for that to happen they need to stay in the black. It sucks but its the nature of the game.

Of course all of this is under the assumption that you played 1ksons last edition which im betting you did.

pismakron wrote:
The premature whine is strong in this thread

Indeed, it is like the army is all dust.

Grab some urns... I mean power armor!

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Look guys I realize you dont want to hear this but they have been waiting for the TS Codex to drop to make this Smite rule Official. Thats it, GK rely on thier spells a bit but they arent losing much due to the nature of how thier smite works plus they already have a +1 from Brotherhood of Psykers, TS will probably get Brotherhood of Sorcerers and you guessed it +1 to spells. Difference is we lean on our smite a lot more then GKs do since its basically there to augment our AS to the point where he can actually kill things in CC where as GK use it as a supplement to there already fething amazing melee.
.

'
you keep repeating this like it's a god given truth. it's not. GW has given us the FAQ schdule and it's a safe bet that if the smite nerf happens it'll happen with the spring FAQ update