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Honestly this post should probably be locked. No one is going to change their minds as plenty of evidence has been presented by both sides. Its no longer a discussion but a circular argument. I mean if thats what people want to do I guess that is cool.
Table wrote: Honestly this post should probably be locked. No one is going to change their minds as plenty of evidence has been presented by both sides. Its no longer a discussion but a circular argument. I mean if thats what people want to do I guess that is cool.
Its all but guaranteed we will keep Dark Hereticus, and a Tzeentch Lore will happen.
Warhammer Community page via Facebook confirmed Magnus will have "more" then 3 spells. and of course as you said there will be a good size for the Strategems.
We can expect the ones above you quoted, and one for Scarab Occult, one for Rubrics, and probably 1 for Tzaangors (maybe 2...given that our cavalry are going to be fairly important in list design)
I would bet on all of those in addition to what we already have. a 1-cp "ignore perils" probably, Id guess.
And I agree with the "characters provide re-rolls or other auras" may happen. If the design team paid attention at all to the thousand sons issues within current design I would think that auras other then the DP / Exalted auras will show up. the Tzaangor shaman is a great start. lets hope they do a couple more.
Id guess that our termies and our rubrics will both get "unit unique" stratagems as a guarantee, Exalted "may" as well given we only have TWO non-unique HQ slots. Pretty much every unique unit in the game has a Strategem, so its a guarantee basically.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: More in Bodies yes but from a points perspective I shouldnt be spending more points on Tzaangors then Rubrics.
Even if you want a brigade or double battalion with tzaangors for troops, you are only looking at 60 tzaangors, which is 420 points. Two units of scarab occult (or a single larger unit for maximizing hypothetical stratagems) will easily beat that. Even then I'd suspect it'd be better to run at least one battalion with the cheaper horrors (blue or brimstone) and some daemon hqs unless gors are just broken good or get a hefty price cut.
In terms of HQs/Characters, tson sorcerers, exalted sorcerers, and daemon princes will be much more expensive but will likely be worth the points (particularly if tson daemon princes get the same upgrade DG daemon princes did, having their god's daemon trait added on).
So yeah, in points I absolutely don't think you'll be seeing more gors than rubrics, sorcerers, and daemon princes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
andysonic1 wrote: Death Guard: elite units supported by daemons and zombies and vehicles. Clearly unique and different from imperial armies to show their embrace of chaos. No one bats an eye, all good, cool gak.
Thousand Sons: elite units supported by daemons and beastmen and chaos beasts. Clearly unique and different from imperial armies to show their embrace of chaos. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Look, guys, I do get that you want the full range of CSM, but you aren't going to get it. You're going to get a fluffy, unique, and frankly awesome army that will work on its own and even better with daemon allys potentially, just like Death Guard. And when Emp Children is announced later this year, they will more than likely get the same treatment: elites supported by daemons and boobs and SONIC BOOM!
This is what your army is now. I honestly cannot fathom how this thread has gone on so long. Either embrace the new fluff of your legion or play 30k.
Oh no there was a lot of salt from DG players, right up from the initial index all the way through the codex. I was one of them. Honestly, might have been worse than this, given that, unlike tsons, the traitor legion supplement had included rules for DG havoc and other such units just months before.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 06:37:39
No it doesnt... Yes, they CAN use Gor's. They shouldnt be MOSTLY gors.
If there are only about 700 rubrics, then they totally are mostly gors! But of course you're perfectly free to choose the preferred gor/rubric ration for your own force. If you think there should be more rubrics than gors then take more rubrics than gors. How bloody hard can that be?
So by your logic every space marine army being played should be 50% or more IG? Glad that settles that.
Well, that's pretty much how I've been running my marines in this edition...
But no, normal space marines are not nearly mindless golems, so they can actually operate an army on their own.
As for the claims that there are now more gor units than Thousand Sons marine units in the codex, that is simply not true. If you count characters and marine vehicles in the codex, there are way more marine units and you can in fact put non-gor unit in most FO slots, so you can have a gorless army if you want.
More options would be nice, I get that, but this is still more than they ever had, and frankly it was unrealistic to expect another model release so soon after they just got bunch of kits last year. As for the psychic stuff, I agree that it should be on the focus, and I hope the codex rules reflect that. TS should be one of the most psychically powerful armies without pointy ears.
When was the last time Tzaangors made up a substantial portion of a TS army.
Tzaangors was in rogue trader, when Chaos got two tomes full of stuff. Ever since Chaos hasn't gotten anywhere near the amount of design space, so we had cram all legions (and usually demons too) in to one codex. This of course led to that we only got the bare minimum for each legion (if even that!), for example TS only representation being a rubric squad and maybe a psyker HQ. Now the TS have gotten their own codex and we finally get all the cool stuff that has been missing for years and people complain
I mean sure, more rubric would be cool to, but you have to take GW production capabilities in consideration.
Daedalus81 wrote:It will all come down to the stratagems to add flavor.
Blasphemous Machines
VotLW Familiar
Boon
Kill Shot
A summon stratagem
Fire Frenzy
Gifts
Those will all be in the book - almost guaranteed.
DG also have a start to bring back a unit so it's possible we get that for Tzaangors.
The ones left are:
Overwatch bonus
Heal
Obscure a unit
Mortal wound bomb
Blow a vehicle
All very useful and geared towards particular units.
In addition i'm hoping we still have Dark Hereticus and the Tzeentch spells.
Best case scenario the characters also provide more than simple reroll auras like Plaguecaster / Blightspawn.
Agreed on the almost guarnteed
We have flamers we don't need an overwatch bonus.
Heals have never been our thing.
We don't need to obscure units we are plunty durable
Shared mortal wound bomb for Rubrics and SOT maybe but not likely
Blow a vehicle up again not likly.
We already have 1 pay 2 CP to get a +1 to a spell (which is gak by the way)
We will probably get 1 that adds to our durability, either reroll invul saves or +1 to invul saves
We will probably get something to replace the Lance ability that Exalteds had
An infiltrate Strat like Alpha Legions but we will probably have to pay 2 points for 1 unit
Something to mitigate Perils of course.
Something for Tzaangors probably movement increase, or increased chance to wound
Ahriman21 wrote:Its all but guaranteed we will keep Dark Hereticus, and a Tzeentch Lore will happen.
Warhammer Community page via Facebook confirmed Magnus will have "more" then 3 spells. and of course as you said there will be a good size for the Strategems.
We can expect the ones above you quoted, and one for Scarab Occult, one for Rubrics, and probably 1 for Tzaangors (maybe 2...given that our cavalry are going to be fairly important in list design)
I would bet on all of those in addition to what we already have. a 1-cp "ignore perils" probably, Id guess.
And I agree with the "characters provide re-rolls or other auras" may happen. If the design team paid attention at all to the thousand sons issues within current design I would think that auras other then the DP / Exalted auras will show up. the Tzaangor shaman is a great start. lets hope they do a couple more.
Id guess that our termies and our rubrics will both get "unit unique" stratagems as a guarantee, Exalted "may" as well given we only have TWO non-unique HQ slots. Pretty much every unique unit in the game has a Strategem, so its a guarantee basically.
We are not going to get 10 strats unique to our army DG got 14 we will get probably 14 with the generic ones taking up 8.
Shaman is going to have morale loss mitigation its what Tzaangors need. They will probably have a use my LD aura and a reroll 1s to wound in CC.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: More in Bodies yes but from a points perspective I shouldnt be spending more points on Tzaangors then Rubrics.
Even if you want a brigade or double battalion with tzaangors for troops, you are only looking at 60 tzaangors, which is 420 points. Two units of scarab occult (or a single larger unit for maximizing hypothetical stratagems) will easily beat that. Even then I'd suspect it'd be better to run at least one battalion with the cheaper horrors (blue or brimstone) and some daemon hqs unless gors are just broken good or get a hefty price cut.
In terms of HQs/Characters, tson sorcerers, exalted sorcerers, and daemon princes will be much more expensive but will likely be worth the points (particularly if tson daemon princes get the same upgrade DG daemon princes did, having their god's daemon trait added on).
So yeah, in points I absolutely don't think you'll be seeing more gors than rubrics, sorcerers, and daemon princes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
andysonic1 wrote: Death Guard: elite units supported by daemons and zombies and vehicles. Clearly unique and different from imperial armies to show their embrace of chaos. No one bats an eye, all good, cool gak.
Thousand Sons: elite units supported by daemons and beastmen and chaos beasts. Clearly unique and different from imperial armies to show their embrace of chaos. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Look, guys, I do get that you want the full range of CSM, but you aren't going to get it. You're going to get a fluffy, unique, and frankly awesome army that will work on its own and even better with daemon allys potentially, just like Death Guard. And when Emp Children is announced later this year, they will more than likely get the same treatment: elites supported by daemons and boobs and SONIC BOOM!
This is what your army is now. I honestly cannot fathom how this thread has gone on so long. Either embrace the new fluff of your legion or play 30k.
Oh no there was a lot of salt from DG players, right up from the initial index all the way through the codex. I was one of them. Honestly, might have been worse than this, given that, unlike tsons, the traitor legion supplement had included rules for DG havoc and other such units just months before.
What about Skyfires, Enlightened, and Shamans how many points am I spending on those? Im goong to need at least Skyfires for FA, swapping. SOT for Enlightened will probably be cheaper, Shamans are more then likley gpimg to be 20+ points cheaper as an HQ choice and have bonuses which will benefit both Tzaangors, Enlightened, and Skyfires.
And on the topic of DP they are a 150 point melee focused unit which needs to be in CC to be points effective and only have a 6" range on thier aura. Which means I need to be with in 6" of an enemy unit to benefit from the aura. I can hear you already "get wings" okay add wings 180 points and increase the move by 4". Now what? Now I still have to be within 10", 8" if I have a flamer in the unit, of the units so when he disengages he can get behind them, because if he dosen't he's left out in the open and will get slaughtered by mortal wound causing units.
Now, to those saying we will get changes to Rubrics which will keep them relevant. We have several options that have been pointed out.
1.)Access to spells
2.)Price drops
3.)Auras to buff them
Access to spells dosen't work because we are still talking about a single wound Sorcerer which will blow up and kill surrounding units.
Price drop might work problem is it would need to be such a huge points drop its unreasonable to think it would happen, were talk 10ish points off the Sorcerer and and 2 off each Rubric, almost 20 points going from just under 110 to just under 90. That is just not reasonable.
Auras, what auras would they get? They already have reroll 1s to hit and reroll 1s on invul, the only other thing they can get is rolls to wound, or save, there is no way we will get rerolls on saves, which means wounds is about the only thing we can really get.
Keep in mind you shound not be expecting to get giant upgrades AND points reductions it will be one or the other and you would really need both to keep Rubrics in the running.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Restored Sons - TS Rubrics which have been restored to their full selves, squads of 3 equip them with either Melee weapons or Heavy weapons, make them an Elites choice. Bam problem solved. they could even use the CSM box and just add some new items to it, you know like they did with the Tzaangors.
And now you just want to play 30k in 40k.
Formosa wrote:First of all I will state it again and in a much simpler way, Tzaangors are LITERALLY not Thousand sons, the keywords do not change this in anyway shape or form, the Gors are an Auxillary force used to boost the low numbers of the Tsons, as others have stated several times, in this codex however the Aux force is now in the majority, like say, ultramarines codex having 2 HQ, a lord of war an elite and a tac squad, the rest is the guard codex thrown in, see the problem there?
Why aren't they Thousand Sons, any more than a Servitor is part of the Ultramarines Chapter?
Why is a Manticore allowed in the Cadian army, despite being a Tank, not a guardsman?
Why is a Grot in the Ork codex, despite not being an Ork?
Tzaangors are in the codex, their keywords literally have <Heretic Astartes> and <Thousand Sons> - how are they any less valid than the Rubricae?
The Gors don't HAVE to be taken, they don't HAVE to be the majority of your army. You still have all the Rubricae (and more) from before, and can still make a list from them. Imagine you're at a restaurant, and you find that, alongside the meal you always order, there's a new menu item. You storm out in disgust from this new menu item, despite you not having to eat it, and your old favourite is still there.
The Ultramarine situation is not the same as this - mostly because Guardsmen aren't actually ATTACHED to Ultramarine forces. They ally together (oh wait, that's what the rules represent), but the Tzaangors are literally PART of the Thousand Sons.
I do side with chapterhouse as GW at the time was very well known for its bullying tactics, spots the space marine anyone?
In which case, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I flatly ignored the "bet" question as it was childish and not worth my time to answer, the rough rider question is just as worthless.
Why was the bet childish? It clearly shows that the Tzaangors are very well integrated into the Thousand Sons - not just a tacked on auxiliary.
And may I ask WHY the Rough Rider question is worthless?
Yes I mean Rubricai need more representation, and if GW wants to show that Tsons are a tiny fraction of numbers, then call this codex Tzaangors, and just leave the Tsons in the chaos dex, if they want a codex Tsons, then put some actual Tsons in it.... or effort.
Well, ignoring the obvious issue that Tzaangors ARE Thousand Sons, you still have all the Rubricae that Wrath of Magnus introduced, and still have the Rubric Marines which was the sole component of the faction for most of 40k's lifespan.
Again - Rubricae being a tiny fraction of numbers can be represented by you on the tabletop if you want, or, you can embrace the choice GW have given you, and not even need to field any Tzaangors.
Maybe legions can only do what you say, but then why do they follow the codex makeup of codex marines so closely, this has been an issue since 3rd to my memory, spikey marines or marines -1, thankfully the new codex isnt as crap as the old ones, but is still just spikey marines, its chaos, chapters or legions, both are very poorly represented compared to the fluff.
They follow the 1special/heavy rule mostly because it's a GW legacy rule back when bolters were slightly more than just aesthetic accessories on bodies people would rather leave unarmed now.
Realistically, giving them all bolters is the fluffiest option, seeing as that's what Legion Tacticals all had.
Narratively, you can argue that they now follow the style of the Legion Veteran Squads.
Mostly, it's GW making the 1 special/heavy rule first to apply to Space Marines of all stripes, and the FW making the Legion list which turned out different.
Hellblasters are stated to be a throwback to the legions makeup, special weapon squads basically, same with LTS and centurions, so space marines now have a legion unit (variation) because Guilliman came back, yet the same legionaries that fought in the great crusade decided "nah, I like the look of that codex right there, lets change our makeup to match that" yet another disconnect with the background and the game, being primaris is irrelevent, the fact its just a special weapons squad with a different name is what matters.
Again, as I said above, the "codex" armament is the old Legion Veteran style.
With the Primaris, it looks to me like they're treated similarly to Devastators with lighter weaponry, but regardless - it's Guilliman's choice of organisation. Chaos haven't had a restructure of the same type since they fled into the warp.
So lets ask you a direct question, why dont you want anymore Tsons in the Tsons codex, why are you so against it?
I'm not really against it - if GW had made it a Rubric-exclusive Codex, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. What I do oppose is the attitude people are having when they get new stuff added to their list, nothing being taken away, and it somehow being MORE dead than when it started. It makes no sense.
Thousand Sons in 40k have ALWAYS been bolter toting golems with sorceror support, and in early days, Tzaangor chaff. Then the chaff was removed. Then someone decided to give the Rubricae two more weapons to add to their arsenal. Then, Terminators. Then, the chaff comes back. Growth.
If you're argument is "well, GW added stuff to the bolter guys, so we should be able to have full heavy weapon teams, right?" - if adding stuff to the bolters is so bad, then GW could just scrap the flamers and soulreapers, and leave you with barebones bolters again. There - no reason for heavy weapons.
AegisGrimm wrote:I pose the question: When a World Eaters codex comes out should it have options for squads full of heavy weapons or special weapons? Other 30k Legion-makeup stuff like sniper squads, etc?
That wouldn't fit for World Eaters in 40k - the Nails saw to that.
Same as why it probably isn't a thing for the Thousand Sons - the Rubric, their retreat, gradual losses all make them what they are now.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Okay so here is a fair question.
When was the last time Tzaangors made up a substantial portion of a TS army.
2nd. I'll pose a similar question.
How long have Thousand Sons been a playable army of their own?
Spoiler:
Since, what 6th? 7th? Before that, you had two whole TS units, Ahriman and the Rubric Marines. That's not a playable army.
Look at it this way; We are probably getting 14 (same as DG as you said)
Rubrics
Tzaangors on foot
Disc riding tzaangors (both or perhaps one and the other)
Scarab Occult
Sorcerers of both stripes
Mutalith perhaps
Thats sitting at around 7 unique strats, id think another 3 or so comprise psyker strats.(the ones in the chaos dex, swap spell, extra spell, and id guess a "ignore perils" strat)
The Daemon Engine strats are a given; we have every one so Blasphemous Machines and daemonforge are going to be a thing.
Id bet that were getting those for sure. Every army has unique strats to work on their own personal unit options. EVERY codex has this design philosophy.
As for points drop; 2 off each Rubric is actually fairly reasonable. Rubrics being 18 AFTER gun sounds... about right. given the current run of codexs generally making things a fair bit cheaper.
Side note; If the Tzaangor shaman gets Ld mitiation for the tzaangors I will eat my wizard robe and hat. not going to happen.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/16 10:20:13
That wouldn't fit for World Eaters in 40k - the Nails saw to that.
Actually there used to be old squads called "Butchers Teeth". Where they chose to spill blood for khorne by using heavy bolters and autocannons, anything that'll rend and tear the bodies. They might just come back if GW is going for old nostalgia vs their idea of mostly melee khorne.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Restored Sons - TS Rubrics which have been restored to their full selves, squads of 3 equip them with either Melee weapons or Heavy weapons, make them an Elites choice. Bam problem solved. they could even use the CSM box and just add some new items to it, you know like they did with the Tzaangors.
And now you just want to play 30k in 40k.
Formosa wrote:First of all I will state it again and in a much simpler way, Tzaangors are LITERALLY not Thousand sons, the keywords do not change this in anyway shape or form, the Gors are an Auxillary force used to boost the low numbers of the Tsons, as others have stated several times, in this codex however the Aux force is now in the majority, like say, ultramarines codex having 2 HQ, a lord of war an elite and a tac squad, the rest is the guard codex thrown in, see the problem there?
Why aren't they Thousand Sons, any more than a Servitor is part of the Ultramarines Chapter?
Why is a Manticore allowed in the Cadian army, despite being a Tank, not a guardsman?
Why is a Grot in the Ork codex, despite not being an Ork?
Tzaangors are in the codex, their keywords literally have <Heretic Astartes> and <Thousand Sons> - how are they any less valid than the Rubricae?
The Gors don't HAVE to be taken, they don't HAVE to be the majority of your army. You still have all the Rubricae (and more) from before, and can still make a list from them. Imagine you're at a restaurant, and you find that, alongside the meal you always order, there's a new menu item. You storm out in disgust from this new menu item, despite you not having to eat it, and your old favourite is still there.
The Ultramarine situation is not the same as this - mostly because Guardsmen aren't actually ATTACHED to Ultramarine forces. They ally together (oh wait, that's what the rules represent), but the Tzaangors are literally PART of the Thousand Sons.
I do side with chapterhouse as GW at the time was very well known for its bullying tactics, spots the space marine anyone?
In which case, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I flatly ignored the "bet" question as it was childish and not worth my time to answer, the rough rider question is just as worthless.
Why was the bet childish? It clearly shows that the Tzaangors are very well integrated into the Thousand Sons - not just a tacked on auxiliary.
And may I ask WHY the Rough Rider question is worthless?
Yes I mean Rubricai need more representation, and if GW wants to show that Tsons are a tiny fraction of numbers, then call this codex Tzaangors, and just leave the Tsons in the chaos dex, if they want a codex Tsons, then put some actual Tsons in it.... or effort.
Well, ignoring the obvious issue that Tzaangors ARE Thousand Sons, you still have all the Rubricae that Wrath of Magnus introduced, and still have the Rubric Marines which was the sole component of the faction for most of 40k's lifespan.
Again - Rubricae being a tiny fraction of numbers can be represented by you on the tabletop if you want, or, you can embrace the choice GW have given you, and not even need to field any Tzaangors.
Maybe legions can only do what you say, but then why do they follow the codex makeup of codex marines so closely, this has been an issue since 3rd to my memory, spikey marines or marines -1, thankfully the new codex isnt as crap as the old ones, but is still just spikey marines, its chaos, chapters or legions, both are very poorly represented compared to the fluff.
They follow the 1special/heavy rule mostly because it's a GW legacy rule back when bolters were slightly more than just aesthetic accessories on bodies people would rather leave unarmed now.
Realistically, giving them all bolters is the fluffiest option, seeing as that's what Legion Tacticals all had.
Narratively, you can argue that they now follow the style of the Legion Veteran Squads.
Mostly, it's GW making the 1 special/heavy rule first to apply to Space Marines of all stripes, and the FW making the Legion list which turned out different.
Hellblasters are stated to be a throwback to the legions makeup, special weapon squads basically, same with LTS and centurions, so space marines now have a legion unit (variation) because Guilliman came back, yet the same legionaries that fought in the great crusade decided "nah, I like the look of that codex right there, lets change our makeup to match that" yet another disconnect with the background and the game, being primaris is irrelevent, the fact its just a special weapons squad with a different name is what matters.
Again, as I said above, the "codex" armament is the old Legion Veteran style.
With the Primaris, it looks to me like they're treated similarly to Devastators with lighter weaponry, but regardless - it's Guilliman's choice of organisation. Chaos haven't had a restructure of the same type since they fled into the warp.
So lets ask you a direct question, why dont you want anymore Tsons in the Tsons codex, why are you so against it?
I'm not really against it - if GW had made it a Rubric-exclusive Codex, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. What I do oppose is the attitude people are having when they get new stuff added to their list, nothing being taken away, and it somehow being MORE dead than when it started. It makes no sense.
Thousand Sons in 40k have ALWAYS been bolter toting golems with sorceror support, and in early days, Tzaangor chaff. Then the chaff was removed. Then someone decided to give the Rubricae two more weapons to add to their arsenal. Then, Terminators. Then, the chaff comes back. Growth.
If you're argument is "well, GW added stuff to the bolter guys, so we should be able to have full heavy weapon teams, right?" - if adding stuff to the bolters is so bad, then GW could just scrap the flamers and soulreapers, and leave you with barebones bolters again. There - no reason for heavy weapons.
AegisGrimm wrote:I pose the question: When a World Eaters codex comes out should it have options for squads full of heavy weapons or special weapons? Other 30k Legion-makeup stuff like sniper squads, etc?
That wouldn't fit for World Eaters in 40k - the Nails saw to that.
Same as why it probably isn't a thing for the Thousand Sons - the Rubric, their retreat, gradual losses all make them what they are now.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Okay so here is a fair question.
When was the last time Tzaangors made up a substantial portion of a TS army.
2nd. I'll pose a similar question.
How long have Thousand Sons been a playable army of their own?
[spoiler]Since, what 6th? 7th? Before that, you had two whole TS units, Ahriman and the Rubric Marines. That's not a playable army.
Please stop this is a whole lot of sophistry, Servitors and Grots don't make up the MAJORITY of subfactions unless thats exactly what your going for when it comes to grots.
The simple fact is after this codex release we will have MORE melee units that are unique to thousand sons then there are ranged focused units. We have 0 units which have a better BS then WS and we have 1 unit which has a better WS then BS. After the codex we will probably have 3 units which will have a WS better then BS and MAYBE 1 probably not even that that has a BS better then WS.
Your army should not consist mostly of chaff, chaff dont get special equipment, they dont get support units, they get dumped in a location and told to run that way and look scary, and then they die on the way there.
Auxillary units are to fill gaps that the Army can't really fill. They get support directly related to their task. Kroot in all there inceptions are good at CC and are okay at shooting, because they are an Auxiliary who is supposed to be the CC option for Tau, Grots are the same thing for Orks just in a different role, they operate equipment for Orks so Orks can hack things to bits, and can double as chaff.
Tzaangors operate totally different in TS after this codex drops. They are a troops choice, not as chaff but as the melee option, which has -1 AP weapons stock. They will also be our Fast attack which will be ranged on disks which used to be an upgrade ONLY HQs had access too, and have an elites option, probably an HQ option, there are no chaff or aux units that do this.
The lore does talk about hordes of Tzaangors and that's great. Just tell me about some of the Tzaangor Charcters in the fluff. What great deeds they have done, or is the Thousand Sons that are the main focus in the fluff, they talk about how Rubrics did this and how this Sorcerer did that. Not how Click Clack the Twistbray lead the charge.
Here's hoping for a playable TS army in 9th.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/16 15:09:12
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Restored Sons - TS Rubrics which have been restored to their full selves, squads of 3 equip them with either Melee weapons or Heavy weapons, make them an Elites choice. Bam problem solved. they could even use the CSM box and just add some new items to it, you know like they did with the Tzaangors.
And now you just want to play 30k in 40k.
Formosa wrote:First of all I will state it again and in a much simpler way, Tzaangors are LITERALLY not Thousand sons, the keywords do not change this in anyway shape or form, the Gors are an Auxillary force used to boost the low numbers of the Tsons, as others have stated several times, in this codex however the Aux force is now in the majority, like say, ultramarines codex having 2 HQ, a lord of war an elite and a tac squad, the rest is the guard codex thrown in, see the problem there?
Why aren't they Thousand Sons, any more than a Servitor is part of the Ultramarines Chapter?
Why is a Manticore allowed in the Cadian army, despite being a Tank, not a guardsman?
Why is a Grot in the Ork codex, despite not being an Ork?
Tzaangors are in the codex, their keywords literally have <Heretic Astartes> and <Thousand Sons> - how are they any less valid than the Rubricae?
The Gors don't HAVE to be taken, they don't HAVE to be the majority of your army. You still have all the Rubricae (and more) from before, and can still make a list from them. Imagine you're at a restaurant, and you find that, alongside the meal you always order, there's a new menu item. You storm out in disgust from this new menu item, despite you not having to eat it, and your old favourite is still there.
The Ultramarine situation is not the same as this - mostly because Guardsmen aren't actually ATTACHED to Ultramarine forces. They ally together (oh wait, that's what the rules represent), but the Tzaangors are literally PART of the Thousand Sons.
I do side with chapterhouse as GW at the time was very well known for its bullying tactics, spots the space marine anyone?
In which case, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I flatly ignored the "bet" question as it was childish and not worth my time to answer, the rough rider question is just as worthless.
Why was the bet childish? It clearly shows that the Tzaangors are very well integrated into the Thousand Sons - not just a tacked on auxiliary.
And may I ask WHY the Rough Rider question is worthless?
Yes I mean Rubricai need more representation, and if GW wants to show that Tsons are a tiny fraction of numbers, then call this codex Tzaangors, and just leave the Tsons in the chaos dex, if they want a codex Tsons, then put some actual Tsons in it.... or effort.
Well, ignoring the obvious issue that Tzaangors ARE Thousand Sons, you still have all the Rubricae that Wrath of Magnus introduced, and still have the Rubric Marines which was the sole component of the faction for most of 40k's lifespan.
Again - Rubricae being a tiny fraction of numbers can be represented by you on the tabletop if you want, or, you can embrace the choice GW have given you, and not even need to field any Tzaangors.
Maybe legions can only do what you say, but then why do they follow the codex makeup of codex marines so closely, this has been an issue since 3rd to my memory, spikey marines or marines -1, thankfully the new codex isnt as crap as the old ones, but is still just spikey marines, its chaos, chapters or legions, both are very poorly represented compared to the fluff.
They follow the 1special/heavy rule mostly because it's a GW legacy rule back when bolters were slightly more than just aesthetic accessories on bodies people would rather leave unarmed now.
Realistically, giving them all bolters is the fluffiest option, seeing as that's what Legion Tacticals all had.
Narratively, you can argue that they now follow the style of the Legion Veteran Squads.
Mostly, it's GW making the 1 special/heavy rule first to apply to Space Marines of all stripes, and the FW making the Legion list which turned out different.
Hellblasters are stated to be a throwback to the legions makeup, special weapon squads basically, same with LTS and centurions, so space marines now have a legion unit (variation) because Guilliman came back, yet the same legionaries that fought in the great crusade decided "nah, I like the look of that codex right there, lets change our makeup to match that" yet another disconnect with the background and the game, being primaris is irrelevent, the fact its just a special weapons squad with a different name is what matters.
Again, as I said above, the "codex" armament is the old Legion Veteran style.
With the Primaris, it looks to me like they're treated similarly to Devastators with lighter weaponry, but regardless - it's Guilliman's choice of organisation. Chaos haven't had a restructure of the same type since they fled into the warp.
So lets ask you a direct question, why dont you want anymore Tsons in the Tsons codex, why are you so against it?
I'm not really against it - if GW had made it a Rubric-exclusive Codex, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. What I do oppose is the attitude people are having when they get new stuff added to their list, nothing being taken away, and it somehow being MORE dead than when it started. It makes no sense.
Thousand Sons in 40k have ALWAYS been bolter toting golems with sorceror support, and in early days, Tzaangor chaff. Then the chaff was removed. Then someone decided to give the Rubricae two more weapons to add to their arsenal. Then, Terminators. Then, the chaff comes back. Growth.
If you're argument is "well, GW added stuff to the bolter guys, so we should be able to have full heavy weapon teams, right?" - if adding stuff to the bolters is so bad, then GW could just scrap the flamers and soulreapers, and leave you with barebones bolters again. There - no reason for heavy weapons.
AegisGrimm wrote:I pose the question: When a World Eaters codex comes out should it have options for squads full of heavy weapons or special weapons? Other 30k Legion-makeup stuff like sniper squads, etc?
That wouldn't fit for World Eaters in 40k - the Nails saw to that.
Same as why it probably isn't a thing for the Thousand Sons - the Rubric, their retreat, gradual losses all make them what they are now.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Okay so here is a fair question.
When was the last time Tzaangors made up a substantial portion of a TS army.
2nd. I'll pose a similar question.
How long have Thousand Sons been a playable army of their own?
[spoiler]Since, what 6th? 7th? Before that, you had two whole TS units, Ahriman and the Rubric Marines. That's not a playable army.
Please stop this is a whole lot of sophistry, Servitors and Grots don't make up the MAJORITY of subfactions unless thats exactly what your going for when it comes to grots.
The simple fact is after this codex release we will have MORE melee units that are unique to thousand sons then there are ranged focused units. We have 0 units which have a better BS then WS and we have 1 unit which has a better WS then BS. After the codex we will probably have 3 units which will have a WS better then BS and MAYBE 1 probably not even that that has a BS better then WS.
Your army should not consist mostly of chaff, chaff dont get special equipment, they dont get support units, they get dumped in a location and told to wait, and then they die there.
Auxillary units are to fill gaps that the Army can't really fill. They get support directly related to their task. Kroot in all there inceptions are good at CC and are okay at shooting, because they are an Auxiliary who is supposed to be the CC option for Tau, Grots are the same thing for Orks just in a different role, they operate equipment for Orks so Orks can hack things to bits, and can double as chaff.
Tzaangors operate totally different in TS after this codex drops. They are a troops choice, not as chaff but as the melee option, which has -1 AP weapons stock. They will also be our Fast attack which will be ranged on disks which used to be an upgrade ONLY HQs had access too, and have an elites option, probably an HQ option, there are no chaff or aux units that do this.
The lore does talk about hordes of Tzaangors and that's great. Just tell me about some of the Tzaangor Charcters in the fluff. What great deeds they have done, or is the Thousand Sons that are the main focus in the fluff, they talk about how Rubrics did this and how this Sorcerer did that. Not how Click Clack the Twistbray lead the charge.
Here's hoping for a playable TS army in 9th.
God damn this is beyond hilarious. The core stuff that has always been in a thousand sons army is still there. Rubrics, Rhinos, Sorcerors, Predators, Helbrutes (though I use the HF Contemptor rules for my Osiron because I don't feel that going bezerk is very Thousand Sons-y) and the special terminators. Thousand Sons get as much stuff as any minor unique chapter of marines gets - some unique weapons, a unique squad composition for a "twist" on the basic tactical squad, a couple special named characters, and a special kind of terminators. There's no difference between them and Black Templars, or Deathwatch, compared to space marines. The only difference now is that you've got more options for your unique cultist unit (which is incidentally the only difference between my Thousand Sons army now and how it has been for years - I added a unit of Tzaangors in place of my usual unit of cultists that has always been there).
"Chaff don't get upgrades/buffs" is just laughable. What the heck are these upgraded units with stubbers and flamers I have here for my cultists? What's a guard special weapon/heavy weapon team? What is a Dark Apostle, a Commissar, or a Kroot Shaper? A Tzaangor Shaman is going to be the equivalent of a Dark Apostle for regular CSMs, its a dude you sink points into if you want to invest more into your front line of chaff.... juuuust like I use the Changeling for when I want to have a unit of horrors screening for my bolter boys. Also, for the record, I almost always have more cultist/tzaangor/whatever MODELS in my army but I still end up spending 3/4 or more of my points on thousand sons. Funny how that works when the cheap models are like 7 points apiece.
Maybe if something like this is difficult to grasp, that may be a factor in why you believe thousand sons are completely unplayable worthless trash and you won't be allowed to play them without fielding mostly tzaangors. Shooting armies that don't like to be in melee with melee specialists work well when there's cheap dudes standing in front of them. It ain't rocket science.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
You mentioned kroot, who occupy almost the exact same space in a Tau army complete with options in many of the same slots, then said this was unprecedented?
Also, it's an entirely playable fluff tsons army. It just isn't what you want. You want to play 30k, with a pure marine force. Which is fine, nothing wrong with that, it's just that tsons don't operate like that in 40k. They never have and likely never will. After all, the army actually present is far more interesting than a mere reskin of CSM with some rubric rules tossed on the various units, and will likely only gain in popularity.
The fact of the matter is I'm not even sure why you are bothered, you don't seem that invested in tson lore. You suggested adding reborn non rubric marine squads as if that wouldn't undermine everything about the tson's narrative and place in 40k. Just take a small tson force alongside your CSM main army, if you just want to use some of their unique units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 13:02:04
A Song of Ice and Fire - House Greyjoy.
AoS - Maggotkin of Nurgle, Ossiarch Bonereapers & Seraphon.
Bloodbowl - Lizardmen.
Horus Heresy - World Eaters.
Marvel Crisis Protocol - Avengers, Brotherhood of Mutants & Cabal.Â
Middle Earth Strategy Battle game - Rivendell & The Easterlings.Â
The Ninth Age - Beast Herds & Highborn Elves.Â
Warhammer 40k - Tyranids.Â
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Restored Sons - TS Rubrics which have been restored to their full selves, squads of 3 equip them with either Melee weapons or Heavy weapons, make them an Elites choice. Bam problem solved. they could even use the CSM box and just add some new items to it, you know like they did with the Tzaangors.
And now you just want to play 30k in 40k.
Formosa wrote:First of all I will state it again and in a much simpler way, Tzaangors are LITERALLY not Thousand sons, the keywords do not change this in anyway shape or form, the Gors are an Auxillary force used to boost the low numbers of the Tsons, as others have stated several times, in this codex however the Aux force is now in the majority, like say, ultramarines codex having 2 HQ, a lord of war an elite and a tac squad, the rest is the guard codex thrown in, see the problem there?
Why aren't they Thousand Sons, any more than a Servitor is part of the Ultramarines Chapter?
Why is a Manticore allowed in the Cadian army, despite being a Tank, not a guardsman?
Why is a Grot in the Ork codex, despite not being an Ork?
Tzaangors are in the codex, their keywords literally have <Heretic Astartes> and <Thousand Sons> - how are they any less valid than the Rubricae?
The Gors don't HAVE to be taken, they don't HAVE to be the majority of your army. You still have all the Rubricae (and more) from before, and can still make a list from them. Imagine you're at a restaurant, and you find that, alongside the meal you always order, there's a new menu item. You storm out in disgust from this new menu item, despite you not having to eat it, and your old favourite is still there.
The Ultramarine situation is not the same as this - mostly because Guardsmen aren't actually ATTACHED to Ultramarine forces. They ally together (oh wait, that's what the rules represent), but the Tzaangors are literally PART of the Thousand Sons.
I do side with chapterhouse as GW at the time was very well known for its bullying tactics, spots the space marine anyone?
In which case, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I flatly ignored the "bet" question as it was childish and not worth my time to answer, the rough rider question is just as worthless.
Why was the bet childish? It clearly shows that the Tzaangors are very well integrated into the Thousand Sons - not just a tacked on auxiliary.
And may I ask WHY the Rough Rider question is worthless?
Yes I mean Rubricai need more representation, and if GW wants to show that Tsons are a tiny fraction of numbers, then call this codex Tzaangors, and just leave the Tsons in the chaos dex, if they want a codex Tsons, then put some actual Tsons in it.... or effort.
Well, ignoring the obvious issue that Tzaangors ARE Thousand Sons, you still have all the Rubricae that Wrath of Magnus introduced, and still have the Rubric Marines which was the sole component of the faction for most of 40k's lifespan.
Again - Rubricae being a tiny fraction of numbers can be represented by you on the tabletop if you want, or, you can embrace the choice GW have given you, and not even need to field any Tzaangors.
Maybe legions can only do what you say, but then why do they follow the codex makeup of codex marines so closely, this has been an issue since 3rd to my memory, spikey marines or marines -1, thankfully the new codex isnt as crap as the old ones, but is still just spikey marines, its chaos, chapters or legions, both are very poorly represented compared to the fluff.
They follow the 1special/heavy rule mostly because it's a GW legacy rule back when bolters were slightly more than just aesthetic accessories on bodies people would rather leave unarmed now.
Realistically, giving them all bolters is the fluffiest option, seeing as that's what Legion Tacticals all had.
Narratively, you can argue that they now follow the style of the Legion Veteran Squads.
Mostly, it's GW making the 1 special/heavy rule first to apply to Space Marines of all stripes, and the FW making the Legion list which turned out different.
Hellblasters are stated to be a throwback to the legions makeup, special weapon squads basically, same with LTS and centurions, so space marines now have a legion unit (variation) because Guilliman came back, yet the same legionaries that fought in the great crusade decided "nah, I like the look of that codex right there, lets change our makeup to match that" yet another disconnect with the background and the game, being primaris is irrelevent, the fact its just a special weapons squad with a different name is what matters.
Again, as I said above, the "codex" armament is the old Legion Veteran style.
With the Primaris, it looks to me like they're treated similarly to Devastators with lighter weaponry, but regardless - it's Guilliman's choice of organisation. Chaos haven't had a restructure of the same type since they fled into the warp.
So lets ask you a direct question, why dont you want anymore Tsons in the Tsons codex, why are you so against it?
I'm not really against it - if GW had made it a Rubric-exclusive Codex, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. What I do oppose is the attitude people are having when they get new stuff added to their list, nothing being taken away, and it somehow being MORE dead than when it started. It makes no sense.
Thousand Sons in 40k have ALWAYS been bolter toting golems with sorceror support, and in early days, Tzaangor chaff. Then the chaff was removed. Then someone decided to give the Rubricae two more weapons to add to their arsenal. Then, Terminators. Then, the chaff comes back. Growth.
If you're argument is "well, GW added stuff to the bolter guys, so we should be able to have full heavy weapon teams, right?" - if adding stuff to the bolters is so bad, then GW could just scrap the flamers and soulreapers, and leave you with barebones bolters again. There - no reason for heavy weapons.
AegisGrimm wrote:I pose the question: When a World Eaters codex comes out should it have options for squads full of heavy weapons or special weapons? Other 30k Legion-makeup stuff like sniper squads, etc?
That wouldn't fit for World Eaters in 40k - the Nails saw to that.
Same as why it probably isn't a thing for the Thousand Sons - the Rubric, their retreat, gradual losses all make them what they are now.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Okay so here is a fair question.
When was the last time Tzaangors made up a substantial portion of a TS army.
2nd. I'll pose a similar question.
How long have Thousand Sons been a playable army of their own?
Spoiler:
Since, what 6th? 7th? Before that, you had two whole TS units, Ahriman and the Rubric Marines. That's not a playable army.
Wow your examples are really really missing the point, a grot is an orkoid species from the same fungus, so swiftly ignoring that example, a manticore is a tank manned by guardsman, so guard, so swiftly ignoring that one too, now explain how a gor is a space Marine, how thousand sons make gors sorcerers or rubrics ? You can't, because they are literally not thousand sons in the same manner a pox walker isn't a death guard Marine, you seem to lack the ability to distinguish the "keyword" with actual fluff.
Yes we will have to agree to disagree on the chapterhouse thing.
The rough rider thing is worthless as codex guard isn't codex rough riders, if they made a codex rough riders I would expect more rough riders units in the codex to make it workable, your example is pointless, think of a better one and I'll be willing to discuss it.
Tzaangors are NOT thousand sons, they are mutants that work with thousand sons and share the codex, learn this distinction.
If they are vets as you say, where are the vet skills for the entire chaos marine line up, as I said before I agree it's a legacy throwback and just the way gw wants chaos marine to play, still doesn't fit the fluff though, and your wrong, chaos marines have had restructuring a hell of a lot more than codex chapters who have only really had it once, the codex itself, chaos warbands use what they can get, so it makes sense for them, it doesn't make sense for the legions that are still legions, word bearers, iron warriors and Tsons, the last one is vastly reduced but we still haven't had any fluff that shows they are radically different from the old legion, other than size.
Yep, gw should remove the weapons from rubrics tacs, put the specials in a special weapon squad and heavies in the heavy squad, glad you finally get that.
As for how long Tsons has been a playable army, it's irrelevant, they are now getting there own codex, and nothing you have said explains why they are now the massive minority in there own codex, I like that tzaangors have been added but can completely understand why people want more actual thousand sons in there codex, especially when it would be so easy to do.
It sounds like some of you would enjoy the game more if you just ported the 30k Thousand Sons rules to 40k 8th edition, which has already been done (check out the 30k forums) for you.
Though if you were playing me, I'd probably just offer to play the Heresy, since I have a couple 30k armies.
Please stop this is a whole lot of sophistry, Servitors and Grots don't make up the MAJORITY of subfactions unless thats exactly what your going for when it comes to grots.
Servitors and grots don't exist in armies where the main unit is a mindless automaton.
Your army should not consist mostly of chaff, chaff dont get special equipment, they dont get support units, they get dumped in a location and told to wait, and then they die there.
It actually should unless you want to get rolled by alpha strikes - at least by model count; not by points.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/16 14:24:01
Rubric Marines, Sorcerors, Ahriman, Magnus, Land Raider, Exalted Sorcerors, Scarab Occult, Predators, Vindicators, Rhinos, Helbrutes (unless you want to disqualify them as Daemon Engines, since there is no real functional difference between using a Tsons dreadnought as a regular dreadnought I'm including them in the list)
Do I have that right? If so, Tsons would seem to have the non-Tsons units in the codex outnumbered 2:1.
Or is the argument here that, for example, a Thousand Sons Predator is not a Thousand Sons unit because it doesn't have any unique rules compared to any other CSM predator.
Because if that's the argument, then...yeah, I guess you're right. But that's also going to be the case for almost every "marines but not" faction. They're all MASSIVELY outnumbered by "non-unique" units with the possible exception of like, Grey Knights. Presumably unless the Tsons Chapter Tactic is some kind of psyker-only trait so it won't effect Helbrutes, you're still going to be looking at Rubrics, Scarabs, Sorcerors, Ahriman, Exalted Sorcs, Helbrutes and Magnus. Unless we're getting into the territory where ANYTHING that appears in similar form in other codexes doesn't count, and you'd argue that (for example) a Dark Angels Assault Squad is not a Dark Angels unit because Assault Squads appear in other armies...
By the time I take the current core of my thousand sons army (20 rubrics, 10 terminators, Ahriman, an exalted Sorceror on disc, a Dreadnought, a Predator, and two Rhinos) I'm at like 1600 points. And I'm not even using four Thousand Sons unit choices. The only real hole you have in the list is a good anti-horde infantry choice, and honestly I'm fine with having there be a hole. There's a psyker and melee unit shaped hole in pure Tau lists. there's an anti-infantry shooting unit shaped hole in pure Khorne Daemon lists. Armies can have holes that you can either work around or fill with a supplementary/auxiliary unit choice.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Bobug wrote: What about standard csms? I know its generally accepted all non-sorc TS are rubrics but what about those recruited after the heresy/rubric? Has it ever actually been stated that thousand sons cant recruit new marines? Ive never questioned it before but technically shouldn't they be able to recruit from the populations in the eye and worlds they invade or from clones like the other chaos legions?
Very much the opposite. The thousand sons are either:
A. Powerful leaders with multiple sorcerers and minions underneath them.
B. Hunted for their psychic abilities by other warbands continuously and/or forced into service against their will. (In may horrific ways lol.)
I mean you are talking about an entire chapter of minor/major sorcerers, that's a really valuable resource in the Eye.
Well, Thursday or Friday, warhammer TV is going to have Custodes vs Thousand Sons with some preview of the codex. I predict a slaughter that will make Thousand Sons new codex look like an embarrassment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 16:13:47
Yes I wish we were getting more models, but the vast majority of factions are not getting new models, and I am happy with the AOS units being ported over (I hope the Orge is included because I own a really well painted one and the model is great). What I am really worried about for the codex is the stratagems, relics, spells etc.
What I hope will happen....
Our "chapter tactic" is something useful like +1 invul (or 5+ invul if don't have one) or even +1 to cast spells for characters. What the "chapter tactic" is will be important to how good the codex is.
I hope we get something like DG got with dreadnoughts getting an extra "chapter tactic" that our dreadnoughts get "All is Dust". That would be fluffy and cool.
I expect we will get some of the universal chaos marine stratagems, like the daemon vehicle one, blasphemous machines, and of course VoTLW. I hope our unique stratagems have at least one infiltrate/deep strike stratagem as Thousand Sons use deceit as a tactic and use portals in the fluff.
we keep the Dark Herictic powers, but also get 3 to 6 tzeentch powers (personally I think there will be 9 powers, the DH powers, and then Weaver of Fates, Tzeentch Fire Storm, and one more).
I hope the relics are better than the one in the CA, and same for the warlord trait.
PRICE DROP for Rubics. They should be 16 points per model, (as the better death guard are 17) and we should not pay any extra tax for the sorcerer, he should just be a free upgrade if he keeps only mini-smite. There should be a price drop for SoT but all terminators are overpriced, so I doubt that will happen.
nintura wrote: Well, Thursday or Friday, warhammer TV is going to have Custodes vs Thousand Sons with some preview of the codex. I predict a slaughter that will make Thousand Sons new codex look like an embarrassment.
Considering these battle reports are always showcases, it isn't hard to make educated guesses based on what they want to show off. For example:
1. The anti horde options of custodes will be on full display versus the normal tzaangors and cultists
2. The new elite gors and shamans will be shown off and compared favorable to the normal gors in this context, to show that non horde options are good as well.
3. Expect them to make a point of how the custodes can resist mortal wounds from psychic powers.
4. Probably going to get the vortex beast showing off a little, that seems minor enough to spoil this far ahead.
5. The end will be a close win by custodes facilitated by the fact they have objective secured on all infantry and bikes.
The above make sense, we will also probably see what the new lore has in store, or learn about what is going on in regards to our legion tactic and strategems.
Idk about all the negative nancies on here but I personally cant wait. going to be alot of fun when the codex is out. And yes; I will try the 40+ rubrics list quite often assuming our legion trait is fairly decent for them.
Hopefully tomorrow we get to see what happens with SOT and Rubricae, as most have said I agree they should always be staples in a Sons list well before the goats.
1850
