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So let me ask this, how well so you think tzeentzch daemons are gonna synergize with t sons? Because I'm honestly wanting to do pink horror squads from daemons and then t sons rubrics

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So let me ask this, how well so you think tzeentzch daemons are gonna synergize with t sons? Because I'm honestly wanting to do pink horror squads from daemons and then t sons rubrics

You'll want a separate detachment of them, but you could easily do a herald and horrors and support them with powers from the TS detachment using the Daemon lore. With their loci the horrors are decent melee blockers.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So let me ask this, how well so you think tzeentzch daemons are gonna synergize with t sons? Because I'm honestly wanting to do pink horror squads from daemons and then t sons rubrics

You'll want a separate detachment of them, but you could easily do a herald and horrors and support them with powers from the TS detachment using the Daemon lore. With their loci the horrors are decent melee blockers.

That's what I was thinking. Do like 50 pink horror, a herald, and a D prince so not only can they soak wounds but also can toss out a lot of light arms fire. The problem I keep having though, is heavy support, another list I have which is pure T sons takes 2 laz preds which does good at that, but I also wanna really utilize the sheer volume of spells t sons gets.

 Backspacehacker wrote:


That's what I was thinking. Do like 50 pink horror, a herald, and a D prince so not only can they soak wounds but also can toss out a lot of light arms fire. The problem I keep having though, is heavy support, another list I have which is pure T sons takes 2 laz preds which does good at that, but I also wanna really utilize the sheer volume of spells t sons gets.

Yea it's hard to tell if spells will provide enough direct anti-tank. I think no at the moment.

Yeah, which means I'll probably need to run 2 preds

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Yeah, which means I'll probably need to run 2 preds

Yea quite likely though I like bringing down T7 stuff with bolters, soulreapers, and VotLW.

I'm also considering running two empty suicide rhinos to roll up and use warpflame gargoyles on their infantry. Might not be effective, but seems so, so fun.

My current wip list is

Exaulted sorcerer on disk
Exaulted sorcerer on disk
Sorcerer in Terminator armor

10x rubric
-soul reaper
-8 warp bolters
-rhino

10x rubric
-soul reaper
-8 warp bolters,
-strar deep strike

30x tzaangors
-30 tzaangor blades

Chaos laz pred
Chaos laz pred

Magnus.

I'm banking on exaulted sorcerer being good again, but I figure this way, I'm making it so trying to gun down Magnus turn one might not be the best idea since there is two laz preds there as well.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

I'm banking on exaulted sorcerer being good again, but I figure this way, I'm making it so trying to gun down Magnus turn one might not be the best idea since there is two laz preds there as well.

If there is anything I miss from 7th it's exalted sorcerers with options. I'm crossing my fingers.

Agreed on the preds - definitely a distraction. Do you absolutely need that sorcerer in TA?

The TA sorcerer is to deep strike in with the one rubric squad that uses the strat to deep strike, that way they have a bit more umf in there.

What's the uproar about? More options = better lists = more flexibility. It might not be fluffy in SOME types of TS army, but does that matter? I'm over the moon for these models in ts as I already did arcanites

 fwlr wrote:
What's the uproar about? More options = better lists = more flexibility. It might not be fluffy in SOME types of TS army, but does that matter? I'm over the moon for these models in ts as I already did arcanites

I think the frustration stems from the idea that the bread and butter of a T sons army is going to be tzaangors not t sons. Like for example, the only thing that we're marines in the game played by gw was Magnus, and 2 5 man rubric squads, rest was tZaangors.

 fwlr wrote:
What's the uproar about? More options = better lists = more flexibility. It might not be fluffy in SOME types of TS army, but does that matter? I'm over the moon for these models in ts as I already did arcanites

Imagine the following:

Gw announces Custodes codex and hypes up how amazing it is that custodes are going to be their own faction. However, two weeks later they release the unit list for the codex list and it looks like this:
- HQ:
Trajann Valoris
Solar auxilia command squad
Solar auxilia commisar

Troops:
Custodes squad
Solar auxilia infantry squad
Solar auxilia special weapons team

Elites:
Solar auxilia Bullgryns
Solar auxilia heavy weapons team
Venerable contemptor dreadnought

Fast attack:
Solar auxilia Sentinels
Solar auxilia Hellhounds

Heavy support:
Land raider
Solar auxilia Leman Russ

Boy I'm sure every Custodes player would be extatic that their unit selection just got QUADRUPLED.

You see, most thousand sons players didn't want dozens of new kits so they could be ultraspecial snowflakes. Maybe one or two new units to expand the unit selection would be cool, but the number one thing we want is for the units that exist to be worth taking.
Currently whether I win or lose is entirely depended on whether I take Magnus or not.

Boy I'll kill for a Solar Auxiliar codex... and kits in plastic. They are my TOP2 of Imperial Guard forces.

DaPino wrote:

Currently whether I win or lose is entirely depended on whether I take Magnus or not.

Currently you don't have a full codex. You will next week.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 fwlr wrote:
What's the uproar about? More options = better lists = more flexibility. It might not be fluffy in SOME types of TS army, but does that matter? I'm over the moon for these models in ts as I already did arcanites

I think the frustration stems from the idea that the bread and butter of a T sons army is going to be tzaangors not t sons. Like for example, the only thing that we're marines in the game played by gw was Magnus, and 2 5 man rubric squads, rest was tZaangors.

Not entirely, its more of a I dont want to be punished for running the iconic unit that most people think about when they think TS.

On top of that there is an Army which has been around for much less time and they are getting kit after kit after kit.

I'll say this again I wasnt expect a lot 1 MAYBE 2 new models. I was more expecting what did just toned down a bit, Helbrute with an upgrade kit, Defiler with an upgrade kit. Something along those lines.

With this release its been the same theme the whole way through. Want to play TS in war hammer 40k? Buy these AoS models, and an upgrade sprue. We apparently are not getting a battleforce box but are being told to but the Arcanite Battle force box and buy an upgrade. Our "new" spells, are two Disiplines which we already had access to and one which we knew half of before we knew the release was happening.

Every single oppertunity GW had to spend ANYTHING on development they chose to spend as little as possible. Meanwhile when it comes to AC they seem to have spared no expense.

Hell at least you could use this as an oppertunity to update the generic CSM line somewhat. Even thay seems to have.been not an option.

Daedalus81 wrote:

DaPino wrote:

Currently whether I win or lose is entirely depended on whether I take Magnus or not.

Currently you don't have a full codex. You will next week.

This from the leaks alone it looks very possible to make a decent t sons list with out big red.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I think the frustration stems from the idea that the bread and butter of a T sons army is going to be tzaangors not t sons. Like for example, the only thing that we're marines in the game played by gw was Magnus, and 2 5 man rubric squads, rest was tZaangors.

(this post isn't really aimed at you as I know you're just explaining the thread to that user, this is more just general thoughts on the new codex with relation to this thread and those who are actually all-in on the "Codex: Tzaangor" narrative)

Don't forget Ahriman, the Daemon Prince and the Predator. Additionally, the Mutalith is in no way a Tzaangor and is more akin to a giant Chaos Spawn. There were also 10 Cultists. In that sense, there were 14 Marine models, 40 Tzaangor models, 10 Cultists and 1 "Spawn". We can't draw conclusions from demo games other than actual rules shown off because ultimately they tend to showcase what they want - i.e. the new stuff. If the Thousand Sons player opted not to take Magnus and a worthless combi-melta on the Predator, he could have easily fit an additional ~15 Rubrics. Similarly, he could have taken something like ~50 extra Cultists for the price of those Tzaangors. All food for thought.

Bread and butter wise if we talk model counts then Tzaangors and Cultists should always outnumber Rubric Marines both narratively and competitively in an army list, having at least one big unit of light infantry is mandatory in 8th Edition and fits the fluff of the Thousand Sons who rely on them to supplement their diminutive numbers. Points-wise is another story, as per that list the Marine side vastly outnumbered the Tzaangor side in that sense.

Besides, other than taking at least one horde for bubble-wrap purposes, the rest of the Tzaangor stuff is not auto-take - and even then, you can use Cultists for that purpose instead of Tzaangors if you want. The Enlightened are really good but if we want a dedicated anti-tank unit then Predators are still a great bet, and anti-infantry is something Tzeentch as a whole does well so while they're definitely super efficient they aren't by any means mandatory. I'm curious to see what the melee variant is but based on their stats it sounds like the bows are going to be the default weapon of choice unless one is looking to save points to fill out Brigades. Shamans are in a similar boat, they're a discounted psyker on a disk but functionally you'd generally want a psyker that can cast 2 spells given our vast spell selection, the Shaman is there more-so for buffing Tzaangor units; also depends on what its spell selection is, if it doesn't get Dark Hereticus then one big use for it (a cheap way to deliver 9" range Warptime around the board) is off the table. The Mutalith isn't strictly a Tzaangor unit but it is more on the unique side, being a moving fire magnet like a Maulerfiend but with a nasty buff aura. That is one to watch for sure.

TLDR the new stuff is good and we should be happy we have more competitive options, but don't feel compelled to take the new stuff; per the leaks, I'd suggest you can do just fine without them. Any competitive player was already running either Tzaangor or Cultist blobs anyway so the new codex wouldn't change that, just making the Tzaangor blob in particular more appealing. Enlightened and Shamans don't supersede existing options but supplement them. If anything, allied Tzeentch Daemons for cheap Command Points and super-charged dakka are probably still going to be more popular for "support elements" to a competitive Thousand Sons army. I'm of the personal opinion that 20 man Rubric squads teleporting around are going to be a hell of a lot of fun, especially with Veterans of the Long War and Prescience. More reliable in a sense than a deep-striking Tzaangor blob that has to rely on the much shorter ranged (to cast, under Thousand Sons rules Warptime is 9" and Prescience is 24", way easier to stay out of deny range with Prescience) Warptime to do anything on the turn it arrives other than draw fire, though obviously quite a bit more expensive and filling different roles.

What he said, also, we really need to wait for th codex because right bow rubrics and occults are over costed, and at the current level an all rubric army is just horrible, but who knows with powers it might be the push they needed.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

DaPino wrote:

Currently whether I win or lose is entirely depended on whether I take Magnus or not.

Currently you don't have a full codex. You will next week.

This from the leaks alone it looks very possible to make a decent t sons list with out big red.

Yes as long as you make a list that is Tzaangor heavy, and dosen't rely on casting too much.

DH-567866

CD-786858

TS-979667

Do you know what those are? Those are the warpcharges for the "new" spells we have access to. WC 7 has a 41% failure rate 1/3 of our spells wont go off half the time without help, Rubric units only have access to the last list, which means 2 spells to put on them a heal and WoF. Buffs 1 of which would be useful on a maxed out squad, the only way to get the CD spells is to bring hyper expensive DP units or Shamans which are 1/2 the price and get 1 free reroll per game and give a +1 to hit buff to Tzaangors.

Magnus with his reroll 1s for psy test aura pushes our ability to cast spells into the pretty reasonable range rather then the not very likely. Which is a bit odd for a bunch of Sorcerers that have been practicing for 10,000+ years. You would think they would not be amatuers at casting spells.

 Galas wrote:
Boy I'll kill for a Solar Auxiliar codex... and kits in plastic. They are my TOP2 of Imperial Guard forces.

I run mine as Stormtroopers. Only issue is the lack of Dracosans.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

DaPino wrote:

Currently whether I win or lose is entirely depended on whether I take Magnus or not.

Currently you don't have a full codex. You will next week.

This from the leaks alone it looks very possible to make a decent t sons list with out big red.

Yes as long as you make a list that is Tzaangor heavy, and dosen't rely on casting too much.

DH-567866

CD-786858

TS-979667

Do you know what those are? Those are the warpcharges for the "new" spells we have access to. WC 7 has a 41% failure rate 1/3 of our spells wont go off half the time without help, Rubric units only have access to the last list, which means 2 spells to put on them a heal and WoF. Buffs 1 of which would be useful on a maxed out squad, the only way to get the CD spells is to bring hyper expensive DP units or Shamans which are 1/2 the price and get 1 free reroll per game and give a +1 to hit buff to Tzaangors.

Magnus with his reroll 1s for psy test aura pushes our ability to cast spells into the pretty reasonable range rather then the not very likely. Which is a bit odd for a bunch of Sorcerers that have been practicing for 10,000+ years. You would think they would not be amatuers at casting spells.

I would at least wait until I had the codex in my hands before making any assumptions about optimal lists. You may want to run a few games with proxy models, too. Things often look better/worse on paper than they are when the dice start rolling. Remember the cries of this being the edition that officially killed horde armies and only MSU would be viable?

You know that rubric units are limited to change discipline just as much as you know the tzaangor shaman is: because Eddie chose the two powers they used from change in the game. They say nothing about that in the WHC article.

What they did say though is that only Magnus and DPs get the daemon discipline. Not shamans. You're delusional about that one as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the shaman isn't half the price of a sorc. A sorc on foot is about 10pts more. On a disc they're 40pts more. They get one more power and a 3+ armor save, and they're an HQ choice allowing you to build towards CPs.

the_scotsman wrote:
You know that rubric units are limited to change discipline just as much as you know the tzaangor shaman is: because Eddie chose the two powers they used from change in the game. They say nothing about that in the WHC article.

What they did say though is that only Magnus and DPs get the daemon discipline. Not shamans. You're delusional about that one as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the shaman isn't half the price of a sorc. A sorc on foot is about 10pts more. On a disc they're 40pts more. They get one more power and a 3+ armor save, and they're an HQ choice allowing you to build towards CPs.

To be fair to him, he did say DPs (Daemon Princes) rather than Sorcerers, but yeah from what I can tell I've seen nothing to suggest Rubrics/Scarabs are restricted to Change, or that Shamans can use the Daemon discipline. That is, of course, unless there are more details from that stream that haven't been mentioned here yet, or leaks from elsewhere. It'd be odd (but appreciated, so I'm hopeful for it) to see Shamans get the Daemon discipline because the only thing daemonic about them is the Disk they ride, but by that logic then Ahriman and Exalted Sorcerers on disks would surely also get access to the Daemon discipline.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 fwlr wrote:
What's the uproar about? More options = better lists = more flexibility. It might not be fluffy in SOME types of TS army, but does that matter? I'm over the moon for these models in ts as I already did arcanites

I think the frustration stems from the idea that the bread and butter of a T sons army is going to be tzaangors not t sons. Like for example, the only thing that we're marines in the game played by gw was Magnus, and 2 5 man rubric squads, rest was tZaangors.

Not entirely, its more of a I dont want to be punished for running the iconic unit that most people think about when they think TS.

On top of that there is an Army which has been around for much less time and they are getting kit after kit after kit.

I'll say this again I wasnt expect a lot 1 MAYBE 2 new models. I was more expecting what did just toned down a bit, Helbrute with an upgrade kit, Defiler with an upgrade kit. Something along those lines.

With this release its been the same theme the whole way through. Want to play TS in war hammer 40k? Buy these AoS models, and an upgrade sprue. We apparently are not getting a battleforce box but are being told to but the Arcanite Battle force box and buy an upgrade. Our "new" spells, are two Disiplines which we already had access to and one which we knew half of before we knew the release was happening.

Every single oppertunity GW had to spend ANYTHING on development they chose to spend as little as possible. Meanwhile when it comes to AC they seem to have spared no expense.

Hell at least you could use this as an oppertunity to update the generic CSM line somewhat. Even thay seems to have.been not an option.

Your main point of contention seems to stem from a lack of new rubrics, and that you are jealous AC and DG got new lines. BUT what you fail to realize is that of the 13 codexes thus far, only 3 have gotten new models. Why? Because GW could only handle that many. GW never planned on spending money expanding TS. They had already decided to do Primaris, DG and AC well over a year ago.

Instead, GW looked at some of their new codexes and said "what can we add to these armies without making new models?". Hence why Guard got access to crusaders, Tyranids got screamer-killers (from the same box already in production) and Eldar got Eldrad in a plastic kit (that they had already made), Grey Knights got GMDK.

With TS, GW decided to offer more Tzaangors options to bulk out an already meager codex. It cost them nothing to do so. Same with Guard, Tyranids, and Eldar, and Grey knights.
GW was never going to give you new rubrics and they didn't have to give you more Tzaangors.

Meanwhile Admech got NOTHING. Not even a rhino they could use.

Had GW not given you more Tzaangors, you would have had NO new units. So I really don't know why you're so mad.

I wanted new Guard models but that never happened. So suck it up and move on.

Now, in regards to Rubrics being outclassed by Tzaangors: you don't know yet. No one knows yet. For all you know Rubrics will be better than Tzaangors. And even if Tzaangors end up being better than Rubrics in every possible way (which I doubt) you can always continue fielding Rubrics because it's your army.

Lastly, GW gains nothing from making Rubrics bad. In fact, they lose out on selling a fancy NEW kit. It's in their interest to ensure players buy the dang models. Why would they sabotage themselves?

 EnTyme wrote:
I would at least wait until I had the codex in my hands before making any assumptions about optimal lists. You may want to run a few games with proxy models, too. Things often look better/worse on paper than they are when the dice start rolling. Remember the cries of this being the edition that officially killed horde armies and only MSU would be viable?

I would agree if we had very little information, but we don't we have more then enough to get us to the conclusion that if you want to cast spells you need to run Magnus at this point.

He mitigates Perils while increasing your chance of casting, even if we got 2 strats which did the same thing AND affected the whole army costing 1 CP each you would still want to run Magnus since it costs 12 CP to do that through the entire game.

That on top of the fact that Rubrics have a real danger of blowing up and killing 47-87 points of their own unit (not including other units) means bringing Magnus WILL be the most effective thing to do if you want to bring Rubric units.

How effective that is remains to be seen, but your not going to get more effective then that. Not bringing him and having say 6 squads of Rubrics would mean your spell selection is very limited, and most of the spells you would want to cast with them would just be repeats anyways which means Smite is cast a lot. In 2 weeks Smite will be worthless and so will the Rubrics without Magnus.

Trouble is Magnus is a squishy bitch who dies usually in the first 2 turns of combat, and given what he will bring after all these changes he WILL die in the first turn, people will make sure of that.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
I would at least wait until I had the codex in my hands before making any assumptions about optimal lists. You may want to run a few games with proxy models, too. Things often look better/worse on paper than they are when the dice start rolling. Remember the cries of this being the edition that officially killed horde armies and only MSU would be viable?

I would agree if we had very little information, but we don't we have more then enough to get us to the conclusion that if you want to cast spells you need to run Magnus at this point..

Yes, I think we can assume that the odds of any other character, warlord trait, stratagem, or relic will give the Thousand Sons, Psyker faction, any kind of bonus to casting rolls. We have more than enough information to indicate to us that the only possible way to get any kind of casting bonus or perils mitigation will be a 450 point lord of war.

That is a completely safe assumpion to make.

the_scotsman wrote:
You know that rubric units are limited to change discipline just as much as you know the tzaangor shaman is: because Eddie chose the two powers they used from change in the game. They say nothing about that in the WHC article.

What they did say though is that only Magnus and DPs get the daemon discipline. Not shamans. You're delusional about that one as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the shaman isn't half the price of a sorc. A sorc on foot is about 10pts more. On a disc they're 40pts more. They get one more power and a 3+ armor save, and they're an HQ choice allowing you to build towards CPs.

And because xxhikaru123 leaked it in the rumors thread, that's fine there is still more of a reason to bring Shamans and Tzaangors then run squads of Rubrics.

And what is the cost of a DP which is what I was talking about, which you clearly knew since you got the CD lore reference right.

Alright, that's fine. Enjoy your Tzaangor codex then.

Dandelion wrote:
Your main point of contention seems to stem from a lack of new rubrics, and that you are jealous AC and DG got new lines. BUT what you fail to realize is that of the 13 codexes thus far, only 3 have gotten new models. Why? Because GW could only handle that many. GW never planned on spending money expanding TS. They had already decided to do Primaris, DG and AC well over a year ago.

Instead, GW looked at some of their new codexes and said "what can we add to these armies without making new models?". Hence why Guard got access to crusaders, Tyranids got screamer-killers (from the same box already in production) and Eldar got Eldrad in a plastic kit (that they had already made), Grey Knights got GMDK.

With TS, GW decided to offer more Tzaangors options to bulk out an already meager codex. It cost them nothing to do so. Same with Guard, Tyranids, and Eldar, and Grey knights.
GW was never going to give you new rubrics and they didn't have to give you more Tzaangors.

Meanwhile Admech got NOTHING. Not even a rhino they could use.

Had GW not given you more Tzaangors, you would have had NO new units. So I really don't know why you're so mad.

I wanted new Guard models but that never happened. So suck it up and move on.

Now, in regards to Rubrics being outclassed by Tzaangors: you don't know yet. No one knows yet. For all you know Rubrics will be better than Tzaangors. And even if Tzaangors end up being better than Rubrics in every possible way (which I doubt) you can always continue fielding Rubrics because it's your army.

Next time just say "quite complaining" save everyone the time.

I'm apparently jealous, and mad, okay lets assume I am. Does that prove me wrong? No, it proves you don't know how to dissect an argument, and provide an accurate critique.

Ad Mech is a fully fleshed out army, all of its units are unique and it has multiple entries in each category, TS have 4 unique units, 1 FA, and 2 Elite slots, are 13 of our 17 unit entries are Generic CSM units compared to the 16 out of 16 units in Ad Mech. As for the 13 Codices, so something has happened multiple times means its okay and should just be accepted?

You wanted new guard? Why? Is guard lacking in some way? Is there some variant of the LR tank you want that doesn't exist?

See there you compared two armies which are fully fleshed out, to a psudeo army which has a total of 15 entries as of now and will have 15 MAYBE after a CODEX drops, we currently have 1 FA entry

"So suck it up and move on."...NO. And I stop telling me to.

Dandelion wrote:
Lastly, GW gains nothing from making Rubrics bad. In fact, they lose out on selling a fancy NEW kit. It's in their interest to ensure players buy the dang models. Why would they sabotage themselves?

You must be kidding about that GW gains nothing from converting a Small Static gunline force into a mobile melee horde force in an edition where mobile horde armies are the new hotness.

GW GW doesn't gain anything from making a bunch of already purchased models useless (which isn't what I said) so people have to go out and buy MORE models

Oh, man your funny. By the way they don't have to make them useless they only need to make them inefficient in large numbers, then people that have more then 20 Rubrics have to shelve them and run 30 more Tzaangors in their stead.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
This means that the Thousand Sons Army which once consisted of almost entirely rubric units and sorcerers will now be made up of mostly Tzaangor units a couple of Rubric units and Sorcerers,

That is what I said. Which is what is happening, Tzaangors are getting multiple units to buff them, plus multiple units added to the army. We are getting no new Rubric type units added to the army, which means buffs for them are going to remain static, or will change very little.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
I would at least wait until I had the codex in my hands before making any assumptions about optimal lists. You may want to run a few games with proxy models, too. Things often look better/worse on paper than they are when the dice start rolling. Remember the cries of this being the edition that officially killed horde armies and only MSU would be viable?

I would agree if we had very little information, but we don't we have more then enough to get us to the conclusion that if you want to cast spells you need to run Magnus at this point..

Yes, I think we can assume that the odds of any other character, warlord trait, stratagem, or relic will give the Thousand Sons, Psyker faction, any kind of bonus to casting rolls. We have more than enough information to indicate to us that the only possible way to get any kind of casting bonus or perils mitigation will be a 450 point lord of war.

That is a completely safe assumpion to make.

What spells do we not know at this time? all of them got it.

What Strats don't we know about at this time? 15 tops, and most of those will be CSM and maybe 1 or 2 Tzeentch Daemons, we MIGHT have 1 or 2 more unique stratagems which I accounted for if you noticed.

What auras don't we know about? Exalted Sorcerers, and we are hazy on the Mutalith, we know CC and Shotty buffs, no Psychic buffs, and the DP which COULD get a aura change.

So lets analyze that DP getting a aura change and another spell would require a points adjustment, which requires time and effort, which requires money, and GW has avoided spending money on the TS release with startling efficiency.

Same exact logic applies to the Exalted Sorcerers, time, effort, money, avoidance.

Last up is the Mutalith which lets assume has something like re-roll 1s on psychic tests on a 9" aura that alone makes the model worth 200 points, but we know its around 150 so more then likely NOT the case.

Out of all that we have 2 maybe strats, 1 maybe aura, and 1 guaranteed spell which will allow us to re roll 1 dice per turn.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
Your main point of contention seems to stem from a lack of new rubrics, and that you are jealous AC and DG got new lines. BUT what you fail to realize is that of the 13 codexes thus far, only 3 have gotten new models. Why? Because GW could only handle that many. GW never planned on spending money expanding TS. They had already decided to do Primaris, DG and AC well over a year ago.

Instead, GW looked at some of their new codexes and said "what can we add to these armies without making new models?". Hence why Guard got access to crusaders, Tyranids got screamer-killers (from the same box already in production) and Eldar got Eldrad in a plastic kit (that they had already made), Grey Knights got GMDK.

With TS, GW decided to offer more Tzaangors options to bulk out an already meager codex. It cost them nothing to do so. Same with Guard, Tyranids, and Eldar, and Grey knights.
GW was never going to give you new rubrics and they didn't have to give you more Tzaangors.

Meanwhile Admech got NOTHING. Not even a rhino they could use.

Had GW not given you more Tzaangors, you would have had NO new units. So I really don't know why you're so mad.

I wanted new Guard models but that never happened. So suck it up and move on.

Now, in regards to Rubrics being outclassed by Tzaangors: you don't know yet. No one knows yet. For all you know Rubrics will be better than Tzaangors. And even if Tzaangors end up being better than Rubrics in every possible way (which I doubt) you can always continue fielding Rubrics because it's your army.

Next time just say "quite complaining" save everyone the time.

I'm apparently jealous, and mad, okay lets assume I am. Does that prove me wrong? No, it proves you don't know how to dissect an argument, and provide an accurate critique.

Ad Mech is a fully fleshed out army, all of its units are unique and it has multiple entries in each category, TS have 4 unique units, 1 FA, and 2 Elite slots, are 13 of our 17 unit entries are Generic CSM units compared to the 16 out of 16 units in Ad Mech. As for the 13 Codices, so something has happened multiple times means its okay and should just be accepted?

You wanted new guard? Why? Is guard lacking in some way? Is there some variant of the LR tank you want that doesn't exist?

See there you compared two armies which are fully fleshed out, to a psudeo army which has a total of 15 entries as of now and will have 15 MAYBE after a CODEX drops, we currently have 1 FA entry

"So suck it up and move on."...NO. And I stop telling me to.

Dandelion wrote:
Lastly, GW gains nothing from making Rubrics bad. In fact, they lose out on selling a fancy NEW kit. It's in their interest to ensure players buy the dang models. Why would they sabotage themselves?

You must be kidding about that GW gains nothing from converting a Small Static gunline force into a mobile melee horde force in an edition where mobile horde armies are the new hotness.

GW GW doesn't gain anything from making a bunch of already purchased models useless (which isn't what I said) so people have to go out and buy MORE models

Oh, man your funny. By the way they don't have to make them useless they only need to make them inefficient in large numbers, then people that have more then 20 Rubrics have to shelve them and run 30 more Tzaangors in their stead.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
This means that the Thousand Sons Army which once consisted of almost entirely rubric units and sorcerers will now be made up of mostly Tzaangor units a couple of Rubric units and Sorcerers,

That is what I said. Which is what is happening, Tzaangors are getting multiple units to buff them, plus multiple units added to the army. We are getting no new Rubric type units added to the army, which means buffs for them are going to remain static, or will change very little.

1) "Admech is fully fleshed out" - Not according to Admech players, who all desperately want a transport, either a rhino or any one of the myriad 30k ones. Maybe you just can't tell because they never made a thread called "Admech is dead..."

2) What new Guard did I want? Rough Riders. Instead they took those out of the codex. THEY TOOK A UNIT AWAY! A unit that I am particularly fond of. I also would have liked any of the metal regiments to be done in plastic. It would have only taken 3 kits to do so. Much like how you were complaining that GW was too lazy to throw in a kit or two.

3) You know what army was seriously lacking? Custodes. They only had 3 unit entries and no HQ. Does that mean you think GW was correct in giving them new units?

4) You're assumption is that every possible current and future TS player has more Rubrics than they need. Which is absurd. Yes, GW wants current TS players to keep buying stuff. They couldn't fit in any new models so they ported some over. That does not mean that they'll never sell Rubrics again, which means that Rubrics will not be left to rot.

5) I still play my Tau strike teams in games even though drones are more efficient, because it's the way I want to play.

The reason people think you are overreacting is because EVERYONE is in the same boat as you. People wanted things and didn't get them. So move on. Relax. Take a break from the hobby if you have to. TS will be what GW makes them. But at the end of the day, no one is forcing you to buy Tzaangors.