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From page 23 of Codex Blood Angels (8th edition):

Bloody Retribution
Hurled across the void by an empyric convulsion, a T’au colonisation fleet begins claiming worlds within the Red Scar. Their efforts are brought to a sudden, violent halt by strike forces of Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers and the Angels Sanguine. The planets of D’sandri and Gendal’s Reach are swiftly reclaimed, and the war spills into the Sevensuns System.

Possibly part of the Fourth Sphere.

I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated

 soundwave591 wrote:
I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated

Hasn't this always just beena fan theory/idea and not something that's been in any lore/book/fiction ever?

 soundwave591 wrote:
I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated

I think that was more a fan theory than a rumor, with ethereals being kept deliberately mysterious and the writers themselves didn't really lock down exactly what they were/where they came from. Or even how they inspired the Tau. There was a weird (probably non canon) book called xenobiology that made them out to be clearly artificial, normal Tau being spliced with mind controlling bugs or something. Then there were hints they'd been subverted by mind control slugs, possibly before they "officially" found the mind control slug world. Then the hints that their tech is mostly due to a particularly well maintained STC, and/or some dark age tech somehow elevated the race and created the ethereals (and the other castes possibly). Oh and that they are the remnants of the original necron race having made it to a not radioactive planet and possibly being guided by necrons now that we know they are sentient.

So yeah, classic "pick your own favorite theory" which will likely never be answered, unless some writer is given permission to pull back the curtain. In which case it'll likely be disappointing and not match any of the fan theories.

 soundwave591 wrote:
I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated

Not confirmed. Ethereals (and all Tau) are artificially created (or at least evolved). The entire species is a big giant science project, more like a grown up version of the Emperor's Space Marine creation than a "natural" space race (and the whole Farsight chaos-not-chaos-sword-rebellion-suddenly-skipping-the-ethereal-influence-and-life-span-limitation feels a lot like a counter-plot). .

People just assumed the Eldar are behind it, as there isn't really another obvious suspect for the whodunnit? But it could be somebody else, including something yet unknown and/or something human from the Imperium itself.

The "canon facts" are just:

- Tau evolved from stone age to space age in record speed, hidden behind a conveniently stable warpstorm shielding them.
- Tau-evolved got into big civil wars, threatening to wipe them from the universe.
- One night, the ethereals "appeared" in Tau civilization with lots of shining lights in the sky.
- Tau cannot resist their commands and peace broke out with the Ethereals' arrival.
- Farsight finds a magic sword after battling some Greater Daemons and is the only one able to make Tau work without Ethereals (and also get's a 10,000% lifespan upgrade).

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 soundwave591 wrote:
I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated

Not confirmed. Ethereals (and all Tau) are artificially created (or at least evolved). The entire species is a big giant science project, more like a grown up version of the Emperor's Space Marine creation than a "natural" space race (and the whole Farsight chaos-not-chaos-sword-rebellion-suddenly-skipping-the-ethereal-influence-and-life-span-limitation feels a lot like a counter-plot). .

People just assumed the Eldar are behind it, as there isn't really another obvious suspect for the whodunnit? But it could be somebody else, including something yet unknown and/or something human from the Imperium itself.

The "canon facts" are just:

- Tau evolved from stone age to space age in record speed, hidden behind a conveniently stable warpstorm shielding them.
- Tau-evolved got into big civil wars, threatening to wipe them from the universe.
- One night, the ethereals "appeared" in Tau civilization with lots of shining lights in the sky.
- Tau cannot resist their commands and peace broke out with the Ethereals' arrival.
- Farsight finds a magic sword after battling some Greater Daemons and is the only one able to make Tau work without Ethereals (and also get's a 10,000% lifespan upgrade).

well. There is another bit to that, that gives some clues at least for what influenced the Farsight enclave.

Unknown to its wielder [The Dawnsword] is made from chronophagic alloys which add a slain foe's remaining natural lifespan to that of its owners. This is the secret of Farsight's remarkable longevity, which has spanned to over three centuries.[2]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dawn_Blade

The Fannon alot of people take "chronophagic alloy" to mean that the Dawn Blade is a Pre-Necron/Necrontyr artifact. Since a blade that absorbs people's life force sounds like the kinda of weapon that the short lived necrontyr would value in this original conflict with the old ones. The sword on the older model also had a very clearly Necron influence to it's design. (That still exists to a lesser extent on the newer model)

From this people assume, that if the necrons are influencing the Farsight Enclaves, This means the Eldar are influencing the Ethereals since Necrons and Eldar are old enemies. Well the Necron/Farsight link is strongly hinted at, the Tau/Eldar link is not. People sort of just infer it. Like you said, it it still pretty open that it could be a alien race we haven't really met before.

The only direct references to this idea, is in the Xenology book. But Xenoology is not considered cannon any more from what I understand. As the book that also states Tau have toes, Eldar Poop Crystals, and mostly references old'cron fluff.

Sounds like they are going either the Event Horizon or Deep Space Nine path for explaining how the Tau get half-way across the universe. With it supposedly being “darker”, I’m thinking it may be more a case of demon/enslaved psychic guide to explain them getting access to/control of Warp drive tech.

demontalons wrote:
I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.

But the Tau already are genocidal and xenophobic, they're just not overtly genocidal and xenophobic. In the Tau Empire anyone who isn't Tau is a second class citizen.

They're most akin to... the Aschen from Stargate SG-1. They're calm, civilised, technologically advanced and have all the trappings of a welcoming 'big brother' race that wishes to incorporate other peoples into its domain, all the while systematically marginalising, sterilising, poisoning and reducing their new populace over a very long period of time until what remains of that civilisation is just there to service the real Tau.

Mankind is violent.
Orkind is brutal.
Eldarkind is arrogant.
Taukind is insidious.

 Stormonu wrote:
Sounds like they are going either the Event Horizon or Deep Space Nine path for explaining how the Tau get half-way across the universe. With it supposedly being “darker”, I’m thinking it may be more a case of demon/enslaved psychic guide to explain them getting access to/control of Warp drive tech.

They've always had warp drive tech, the problem was that their warp presence was insignificant and entering it caused them to pass out. This is from right back in the 3rd ed codex if I remember, and due to this the tau have been forced to adapt tp none warp travel.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Mankind is violent.
Orkind is brutal.
Eldarkind is arrogant.
Taukind is insidious.

best. description. ever.

Xenology was never fully retconned, just got more more minor retcons and simply old (the book is from 2nd or 3d right?).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

demontalons wrote:
I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.

But the Tau already are genocidal and xenophobic, they're just not overtly genocidal and xenophobic. In the Tau Empire anyone who isn't Tau is a second class citizen.

They're most akin to... the Aschen from Stargate SG-1. They're calm, civilised, technologically advanced and have all the trappings of a welcoming 'big brother' race that wishes to incorporate other peoples into its domain, all the while systematically marginalising, sterilising, poisoning and reducing their new populace over a very long period of time until what remains of that civilisation is just there to service the real Tau.

Mankind is violent.
Orkind is brutal.
Eldarkind is arrogant.
Taukind is insidious.

I have said the same before - the Aschen are very Tau like

People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.

Later fluff is even worse, in FFG games Tau aligned humans in Jericho Reach are ISIS-like terrorists who think nothing of suicide-bombing Imperial cities and military outposts.

With nuclear bombs.

And Tau are perfectly fine with it.

Then you have terrible Phil Kelly books, which as far as I am concerned are not canon like everything he wrote, but there you have Ethereals casually ordering Tau officers being lobotomized to insert Puretide chips in their brain, then euthanized once battle ends as 'we don't want to waste medical resources repairing broken doll', Ethereal who casually orders water caste diplomat to slit his own throat for saying mildly insulting thing, Ethereal who is fine to detonate colony ship after all 'valuable' personnel was evacuated (and millions of remaining earth, fire, and air caste Tau on board are 'replaceable' in his words) to deal a blow to Imperial fleet, and a lot of even worse examples than that.

If to Ethereals even Tau are meat puppets that can be casually discarded if not needed, ask yourself, how much concern would be awarded to sub-Tau races?

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.

Seems to be an outlier, probably something they occasionally do with completely hostile populations or something.

Anyhow the real evidence of the tau empire being dystopian is the fact that a quarter of their population are assigned from birth to train and serve as soldiers. The other castes get off lighter, but still don't have a lot of choice. Presumably there's some wiggle room to express interest in a speciality within your caste you excel at?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.

Later fluff is even worse, in FFG games Tau aligned humans in Jericho Reach are ISIS-like terrorists who think nothing of suicide-bombing Imperial cities and military outposts.

With nuclear bombs.

And Tau are perfectly fine with it.

Then you have terrible Phil Kelly books, which as far as I am concerned are not canon like everything he wrote, but there you have Ethereals casually ordering Tau officers being lobotomized to insert Puretide chips in their brain, then euthanized once battle ends as 'we don't want to waste medical resources repairing broken doll', Ethereal who casually orders water caste diplomat to slit his own throat for saying mildly insulting thing, Ethereal who is fine to detonate colony ship after all 'valuable' personnel was evacuated (and millions of remaining earth, fire, and air caste Tau on board are 'replaceable' in his words) to deal a blow to Imperial fleet, and a lot of even worse examples than that.

If to Ethereals even Tau are meat puppets that can be casually discarded if not needed, ask yourself, how much concern would be awarded to sub-Tau races?

That book sounds excessive, though to be fair there has always been a bit of an undercurrent of that. An undercurrent, that's way to explicit, but still:

Tau respect the value of life and don't like using cannon fodder tactics, but will still happily spend Kroot lives to save tau lives, spend basic fire warriors to preserve more valuable assets like suit pilots, and spend pretty much anything to preserve an ethereal.

 Earth127 wrote:
Xenology was never fully retconned, just got more more minor retcons and simply old (the book is from 2nd or 3d right?).

Xenology is a book I describe as "anti-canon". It wasn't just retconned. It was [/i]"change how much control we have over what our writers create"[/i] retconned. There's gak in there that just isn't 40K any more.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.

Name some high-ranking or influential non-Tau members of the Tau Empire.

All this background stuff has a forum section for it, no?

Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.

Tau in a nut shell

Yes the Tau are SciFi Utilitarianists, with all the potential negatives that entails. Back in the older editions (3rd, 4th etc) this was rarely explicitely stated but left up to the players imagination, because that simple maxim could be used to justify almost anything. Unfortunately it seems this was missed by a lot of people who thought they were too squeaky clean so the writers have had to be a bit more ham-fisted with making the point, sadly.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

I remember those Codex where humans are moved from border worlds with the Imperium to safer Tau empire worlds, to save them from imperial retaliation. And how explicitely the Tau very much respect the Kroot as a species and as an ally.

That doesn't mean in some sources Tau do not do very shaddy things to other races. Of course they do crappy stuff, but people tend to exaggerate how it is really to live inside the Tau empire. And by all accounts, to live in the Tau Empire is much better than any one else, even if you are not Tau. All those crappy things the Tau do to other races that are part of the Tau Empire are always in the middle of war-zones.

Everybody know the Ethereals where up to something when Tau where first introduced, even in their brigther and first incarnation. But as others have said, the authors that have written about Tau have all a serious lack of subtlety. (But I'll say, of all those examples, blowing a ship to cause a blow to the Imperial fleet is something I could see the Tau doing in a desesperate measure, but not as a regular tactic)
And to be honest I don't take non-GW sources of fluff as canon. Specially something like Soulstorm, a campaing that has multiple endings for every faction.

 EnTyme wrote:
Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.

Burning a box of kittens so the orphans aren't cold anylonger is something the Imperium of Mankind would do. The Tau would seend those kittens and those Orphans to gather wood in the snow, so the director of the Orphanage can stay confortably in his chair.

Galas wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.

I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.

I remember those Codex where humans are moved from border worlds with the Imperium to safer Tau empire worlds, to save them from imperial retaliation. And how explicitely the Tau very much respect the Kroot as a species and as an ally.

That doesn't mean in some sources Tau do not do very shaddy things to other races. Of course they do crappy stuff, but people tend to exaggerate how it is really to live inside the Tau empire. And by all accounts, to live in the Tau Empire is much better than any one else, even if you are not Tau. All those crappy things the Tau do to other races that are part of the Tau Empire are always in the middle of war-zones.

Everybody know the Ethereals where up to something when Tau where first introduced, even in their brigther and first incarnation. But as others have said, the authors that have written about Tau have all a serious lack of subtlety. (But I'll say, of all those examples, blowing a ship to cause a blow to the Imperial fleet is something I could see the Tau doing in a desesperate measure, but not as a regular tactic)
And to be honest I don't take non-GW sources of fluff as canon. Specially something like Soulstorm, a campaing that has multiple endings for every faction.

 EnTyme wrote:
Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.

Burning a box of kittens so the orphans aren't cold anylonger is something the Imperium of Mankind would do. The Tau would seend those kittens and those Orphans to gather wood in the snow, so the director of the Orphanage can stay confortably in his chair.

Actually, the Imperium burned the kittens because the Emperor's battery was at 15%, and they assumed the kittens were psykers.

On the Tau topic (subtopic?) Warhammer Community just released an image defining the 5th sphere of expansion: They are using the StarTide Nexus.

It's one of those process of elimination things for who created the tau, they had to have warp travel, because they left a warp capable vessel parked on the Tau homeworlds moon, So necrons are out. The IoM isn't in the species building game and the mechnicum had planned to eliminate the tau when they were still throwing spears at their food, so probably not the IoM. Of the remaining factions, not many are close enough or technologically capable. Since the 3rd ed codex made it pretty clear that the tau are not naturally occuring and show clear signs of genetic tampering, so we can rule out being naturally occuring. Of the known factions that leaves eldar and the old ones, the later can be fairly safely ruled out because all of their creations were psychic, and they have a slight problem with being dead at the moment.

Which faction of eldar is an open question, peoples default assumption is Craftworld eldar, but fleshcrafting and mind control definitely fall more under the auspice of dark eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
On the Tau topic (subtopic?) Warhammer Community just released an image defining the 5th sphere of expansion: They are using the StarTide Nexus.

can't seem to find that got a link?

Image is from Facebook so might be workblocked.

Sounds like it's less "Event Horizon" and more "Mass Effect"/"Interstellar" with a bit of "OHGAKDAEMONS!" thrown in there?

This is the aforementioned image. I did not see it on the Warhammer Community site, but I found it on Advanced Tau Tactica.

Pierce the fabric of reality, guess they finally made it all the way into the warp. Maybe the Tau accidentally created a little EoT, because once the hole was open they couldn't figure out how to close it, like say the hades anomaly.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

Spoiler:

This is the aforementioned image. I did not see it on the Warhammer Community site, but I found it on Advanced Tau Tactica.

It's not on Warhammer Community, the Warhammer Community Facebook page had it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Image is from Facebook so might be workblocked.

Sounds like it's less "Event Horizon" and more "Mass Effect"/"Interstellar" with a bit of "OHGAKDAEMONS!" thrown in there?

Probably just doom the video game. Science yields actual gateway to hell. Could be a decent way to bring back the fire warrior video game.