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What could this be? Creative freedom? Or something else?
And... I'm sure the "omg tau don't fit GW!" are gonna be pleased with this. Yeah, not like actual fans of the faction are the ones you should try to writte fluff about... write fluff trying to please the haters.
Spoiler:
Whats going on in that second image, the tau can't really use the warp, so webways, or another race with the ability to travel the galaxy instantly
Spoiler:
They can use the Webways, assuming you actually can get into them.
It's long been the Nicassar have been a Tau thrall race...maybe the darkening up of them is that they've started forcing the Nicassar into serving as something like the Dune Navigators?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 01:07:48
I just hope they don’t try and make the T’au another chaos fallen race. Some of us want to play some “good guys” in 40K. It does not have to be all grimdark all the time. A little light can make the darkness deeper. Here is hopeing to still serve the Greater Good.
For the Greater Good!
40K, SW:Armada, Bolt Action, Legions Imperialis(maybe…)
I'm very interested to see what do with the Farsight Enclaves. The main reason I've never been interested in Tau is that I just can't get behind an army that only shoots and nothing else. If the Enclaves turn out to be a legitimate option for adding some melee components to a Tau list then I might have to give the army a shot.
vadersson wrote: I just hope they don’t try and make the T’au another chaos fallen race. Some of us want to play some “good guys” in 40K. It does not have to be all grimdark all the time. A little light can make the darkness deeper. Here is hopeing to still serve the Greater Good.
The Tau aren't good guys by any stretch of the imagination.
That said, I do agree with you that we shouldn't get 'Chaos Tau' or any sort of 'fallen' aspect. I like the Farsight Enclaves as a kind of revolutionary breakaway faction, but that's as far as it should go. The Tau should remain the Tau.
What if the Tau "went dark" by doing something inhumane in order to get better Warp tech. Something like harvesting humane brains to make a Robocop-like navigator for their ships.
cuda1179 wrote: What if the Tau "went dark" by doing something inhumane in order to get better Warp tech. Something like harvesting humane brains to make a Robocop-like navigator for their ships.
Thats exactly the kind of horrible "OMG ALL GRIMDERP ALL THE TIME" I'm fearing will happen.
vadersson wrote: I just hope they don’t try and make the T’au another chaos fallen race. Some of us want to play some “good guys” in 40K. It does not have to be all grimdark all the time. A little light can make the darkness deeper. Here is hopeing to still serve the Greater Good.
The Tau aren't good guys by any stretch of the imagination.
.
In any other kind of sci-fi universe like Star Wars, Mass Effect, Halo (Tau are basically the Covenant) or Star Trek, the Tau would be definetely the bad guys. The fun thing about them is presenting them as good guys by comparison in w40k. Yeah, they do very bad things. But at the same time they have some degree of self consciousness. A Tau commander was exiled from the Tau Empire for genocide agaisnt human civilian population. The Imperium would have give that xenos-killer a medal! The Tau Empire does horrible things, like most goverments in modern earth do. But at least they try to avoid the MOST horrible ones. In Warhammer 40k terms, thats pretty good. Just the fact that they avoid killing everything at sight and using diplomacy to add xenos-worlds peacefully to the Tau Empire is a big deal. (And no, the "Join us or die" is just memes. In the Damocles Gulf they spent decades of the water-caste diplomacy for those worlds to end up joining the Tau Empire)
But GW is showing that, with how Farsight is now the "rebel" and the "good guy" they can make the Tau Empire just the Imperium of Mankind: Xenos Bogaloo. Its even worse with the return of Guilliman and their effor to paint the Imperium of Mankind as actually the good guys! Not just the protagonists, but the good guys.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/27 07:32:13
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Stormonu wrote: Ha - Tau Weakness - Close Combat “If your fighting Tau, charge with your melee units and enjoy”
Yeah, if you survive the Overwatch bludgeoning...
Yeah on sixes though isn't that scary, the hard part will be getting to them alive.
Given whats out there for other codices, and what Tau have had in other editions, I strongly suspect there will be ways and means to overwatch on better than a 6 (AdMech can get this, and they are basically Tau without the mobility...)
What could this be? Creative freedom? Or something else?
And... I'm sure the "omg tau don't fit GW!" are gonna be pleased with this. Yeah, not like actual fans of the faction are the ones you should try to writte fluff about... write fluff trying to please the haters.
Spoiler:
Whats going on in that second image, the tau can't really use the warp, so webways, or another race with the ability to travel the galaxy instantly
Spoiler:
They can use the Webways, assuming you actually can get into them.
It's long been the Nicassar have been a Tau thrall race...maybe the darkening up of them is that they've started forcing the Nicassar into serving as something like the Dune Navigators?
Maybe a new slightly larger than crisis suit unit of multiple models?
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
cuda1179 wrote: What if the Tau "went dark" by doing something inhumane in order to get better Warp tech. Something like harvesting humane brains to make a Robocop-like navigator for their ships.
Thats exactly the kind of horrible "OMG ALL GRIMDERP ALL THE TIME" I'm fearing will happen.
Honestly it wouldn't really change much. While it's never been strictly addressed to my knowledge, the Tau logically have to do something about psykers found amongst their human populace. It's a safe bet they don't just shrug off spontaneous demons as a thing that just happens. They don't even have the sanctioning process to stabilize them a bit. So them being harvested isn't a huge change, given they likely had to be killed or chemically labotomized before. I mean maybe you could have the psykers being abducted for research and experimentation and this breakthrough being a piece of warp tech that resulted from that, but doesn't require any psyker gribbly bits to make it work. That is slightly less grim. But human psykers being screwed hard is one of those universal things I doubt Tau can really do much to fix, it's baked into the setting.
Unless we are supposed to accept that human psykers are perfectly safe unless converted to chaos snd the imperium has simply been shooting itself in the foot non stop for 10,000 years. Which probably goes too much in the other direction.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/27 12:50:55
Galas wrote: And... I'm sure the "omg tau don't fit GW!" are gonna be pleased with this. Yeah, not like actual fans of the faction are the ones you should try to writte fluff about... write fluff trying to please the haters.
Except what went horribly wrong with Tau for the last two editions was precisely the fact their fluff and rules were written by uncritical fanboys who made them from 'new, naive, rising race' into 'already better than thou at literally everything' one, and that starting even before they actually met the Imperium (!). Tau (and Farsight) need rewrite from the ground up, badly, with someone actually mandating single direction and unifying vision to the whole incoherent mess we have now...
SilverAlien wrote: Unless we are supposed to accept that human psykers are perfectly safe unless converted to chaos snd the imperium has simply been shooting itself in the foot non stop for 10,000 years. Which probably goes too much in the other direction.
I really wouldn't be surprised if the past Tau writers went in that direction and say said Tau Ethereals can beat chaos lure in psykers by mandating strict regiment of meditation and diet. After all, these are the same people who think Tau computers effortlessly hacking daemons and unimaginably more advanced Necron AI without being flooded back with chaos scrapcode or Necron tech-virals is perfectly reasonable
Just got my WD, in the letter section on page 25 they are answering a question regarding the possibility of a Shadow War: Inquisition / dedicated Inquisition game with "We've heard several rumors that there's a [Redacted by the Inquisition] and that [Removed by Ordo Hereticus archivist] but otherwise, we really don't know anything..."
This may be a standard Inq-related answer but may also be intended as a kind of teaser for a future standalone boxed set or 40k product. We will see I guess.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/27 13:54:49
I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
We know they are hitting the warp travel wall. Somehow they need to overcome that. Would making a deal with the drukhari for access to webway routes in exchange for live prisoners be a terrible thing? Yes. Would it fit the fluff of the tau being all for the many and not for the few? Yes.
What if they simply incorporated a race that did terrible things? Would that be ok? The nicosaur are supposedly very psychic. What if they performed sacrifices to open up warp gates?
I feel like some tau players want the tau to be squeaky clean and they never were.
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
We know they are hitting the warp travel wall. Somehow they need to overcome that. Would making a deal with the drukhari for access to webway routes in exchange for live prisoners be a terrible thing? Yes. Would it fit the fluff of the tau being all for the many and not for the few? Yes.
What if they simply incorporated a race that did terrible things? Would that be ok? The nicosaur are supposedly very psychic. What if they performed sacrifices to open up warp gates?
I feel like some tau players want the tau to be squeaky clean and they never were.
You don't need to perform sacrifices to open warp rifts...
There's a ton of different ways that this could play out, including them taking in rogue human Psykers to serve as 'navigators' for their ships.
Just a quick chime in on the evolving Tau fluff. I think it was the last codex but it had an interesting section on Tau engineers lying to the pilots of the riptides that the super reactor was safe. Basically between the amoral weapons testing and the ethereals suspicious mind controlling other races they are more like an even RoboCop esque corporation with a China police state vibe with a little Advent from Xcom. Hardly the genocidal insanity of the other 40k races but as another poster mentioned they would be super bad guys in most any other sci-fi setting.
buddha wrote: Just a quick chime in on the evolving Tau fluff. I think it was the last codex but it had an interesting section on Tau engineers lying to the pilots of the riptides that the super reactor was safe. Basically between the amoral weapons testing and the ethereals suspicious mind controlling other races they are more like an even RoboCop esque corporation with a China police state vibe with a little Advent from Xcom. Hardly the genocidal insanity of the other 40k races but as another poster mentioned they would be super bad guys in most any other sci-fi setting.
Don't forget that their Ethereal Supreme (Aun'Va) died and they are using holograms to make it seem like he's still alive because the morale loss would be devastating .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 15:02:46
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
We know they are hitting the warp travel wall. Somehow they need to overcome that. Would making a deal with the drukhari for access to webway routes in exchange for live prisoners be a terrible thing? Yes. Would it fit the fluff of the tau being all for the many and not for the few? Yes.
What if they simply incorporated a race that did terrible things? Would that be ok? The nicosaur are supposedly very psychic. What if they performed sacrifices to open up warp gates?
I feel like some tau players want the tau to be squeaky clean and they never were.
You don't need to perform sacrifices to open warp rifts...
There's a ton of different ways that this could play out, including them taking in rogue human Psykers to serve as 'navigators' for their ships.
indeed they have both client races (some of whom use Warp Travel) and renegade human colonies who will produce navigators as well as any still on defected ships - we know at least one Battleship (!) defected
What might be an issue is the correct maintenance of the Gellar fields if they don't have the Ad Mech support and trial and error with Warp Drives is lets just say horribly risky at a minimum.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Perhaps the Tau are caging daemons to power FTL? They would likely see them the same way the Emperor does/did. As just extra weird aliens from a parallel universe.
Everyone remembers that the BRB mentions Tau of the 4th expansion getting caught in a warp storm and getting shunted halfway across the galaxy right? Isn't this the same guys?
I don't think it was any kind of voluntary FTL. I think the 4th expansion survivors are making a home the hard way.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
ChargerIIC wrote: Everyone remembers that the BRB mentions Tau of the 4th expansion getting caught in a warp storm and getting shunted halfway across the galaxy right? Isn't this the same guys?
I don't think it was any kind of voluntary FTL. I think the 4th expansion survivors are making a home the hard way.
If they got caught in a Warp Storm they may not be Tau anymore, they will be affected by physical manifestations, mutated and Daemons will eventually notice them even if they are Blunt - a snacks a snack.
Perhaps the Tau are caging daemons to power FTL? They would likely see them the same way the Emperor does/did. As just extra weird aliens from a parallel universe.
That would be "darker" by 40k standards
They got badly burned trying that with the Necrons and Dark Eldar - but that's not to say they would not try again. Daemons might even go along with it for a bit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 15:31:40
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
cuda1179 wrote: What if the Tau "went dark" by doing something inhumane in order to get better Warp tech. Something like harvesting humane brains to make a Robocop-like navigator for their ships.
Thats exactly the kind of horrible "OMG ALL GRIMDERP ALL THE TIME" I'm fearing will happen.
Honestly it wouldn't really change much. While it's never been strictly addressed to my knowledge, the Tau logically have to do something about psykers found amongst their human populace. It's a safe bet they don't just shrug off spontaneous demons as a thing that just happens. They don't even have the sanctioning process to stabilize them a bit. So them being harvested isn't a huge change, given they likely had to be killed or chemically labotomized before. I mean maybe you could have the psykers being abducted for research and experimentation and this breakthrough being a piece of warp tech that resulted from that, but doesn't require any psyker gribbly bits to make it work. That is slightly less grim. But human psykers being screwed hard is one of those universal things I doubt Tau can really do much to fix, it's baked into the setting.
Unless we are supposed to accept that human psykers are perfectly safe unless converted to chaos snd the imperium has simply been shooting itself in the foot non stop for 10,000 years. Which probably goes too much in the other direction.
Yeah, I suppose thats something to look into it. I hadn't thought about that. But as you said, I think experimentation without regard for their lives to research a new technology would be more Tau than using them, like those Space Marine missiles that use brains of faileds initiates to guide them.
Galas wrote: And... I'm sure the "omg tau don't fit GW!" are gonna be pleased with this. Yeah, not like actual fans of the faction are the ones you should try to writte fluff about... write fluff trying to please the haters.
Except what went horribly wrong with Tau for the last two editions was precisely the fact their fluff and rules were written by uncritical fanboys who made them from 'new, naive, rising race' into 'already better than thou at literally everything' one, and that starting even before they actually met the Imperium (!). Tau (and Farsight) need rewrite from the ground up, badly, with someone actually mandating single direction and unifying vision to the whole incoherent mess we have now...
I totally agree with that. But thats like Ultramarine fluff, even most Ultramarine fans despise how they are represented by fanboy authors instead of giving them a more fair threatment compared with the rest of the universe. The same happens with Tau, you have authors that put them like the Imperium of Taukind, and then you have others authors that are basically writing a manga. It only needs O'shasherra telling Farsight something like "I-Is not like I like you or something!" after chasing him for half the galaxy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/27 15:38:48
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
cuda1179 wrote: What if the Tau "went dark" by doing something inhumane in order to get better Warp tech. Something like harvesting humane brains to make a Robocop-like navigator for their ships.
Thats exactly the kind of horrible "OMG ALL GRIMDERP ALL THE TIME" I'm fearing will happen.
Honestly it wouldn't really change much. While it's never been strictly addressed to my knowledge, the Tau logically have to do something about psykers found amongst their human populace. It's a safe bet they don't just shrug off spontaneous demons as a thing that just happens. They don't even have the sanctioning process to stabilize them a bit. So them being harvested isn't a huge change, given they likely had to be killed or chemically labotomized before. I mean maybe you could have the psykers being abducted for research and experimentation and this breakthrough being a piece of warp tech that resulted from that, but doesn't require any psyker gribbly bits to make it work. That is slightly less grim. But human psykers being screwed hard is one of those universal things I doubt Tau can really do much to fix, it's baked into the setting.
Unless we are supposed to accept that human psykers are perfectly safe unless converted to chaos snd the imperium has simply been shooting itself in the foot non stop for 10,000 years. Which probably goes too much in the other direction.
Tau don't have psykers. Their psychic presence is nearly non existant. Is like they have no-soul (Not like Blanks. Blanks are Dark Holes where Eldar are Supernovas of Psychic energy. Tau are like a lighter). Thats like they are mostly inmune to Chaos corruption. Thats why many people say they have relations with Necrons. Maybe in the future they will start to develop psykers, but right not they don't.
Yep - although its also cos they are rare and not really been noticed.
Necron-Tau relations have not ended well so far - the necrons have harvested whole worlds
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
We know they are hitting the warp travel wall. Somehow they need to overcome that. Would making a deal with the drukhari for access to webway routes in exchange for live prisoners be a terrible thing? Yes. Would it fit the fluff of the tau being all for the many and not for the few? Yes.
What if they simply incorporated a race that did terrible things? Would that be ok? The nicosaur are supposedly very psychic. What if they performed sacrifices to open up warp gates?
I feel like some tau players want the tau to be squeaky clean and they never were.
You don't need to perform sacrifices to open warp rifts...
There's a ton of different ways that this could play out, including them taking in rogue human Psykers to serve as 'navigators' for their ships.
But that's not how navigating the warp works. There are three "safe" ways to navigate the warp: be a capital-n Navigator, possessed of a specific mutant gene that allows them to interpret the unreality of the warp; or be a psyker fully committed to the service of Chaos and be gifted that ability by your patrons; or summon and bind a daemonic entity into a host and compel it to navigate on your behalf. You bog-standard everyday human psyker would take one unshielded look at the tides of the immaterium and either go stark-gibbering insane or be immediately possessed by a rampaging demon.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
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I wouldn't be surprised if that's changed since the warp burst out into real space in such a spectacular way
my guess is it's going to be some combination of new Tau tech (that at least most of them don't understand) and all these anomalies that are going to let the Tau out of their space ghetto
and bad things are going to happen to those that travel that way but (most of) the Tau homeworlds won't understand that at least for now
indeed they have both client races (some of whom use Warp Travel) and renegade human colonies who will produce navigators as well as any still on defected ships - we know at least one Battleship (!) defected
What might be an issue is the correct maintenance of the Gellar fields if they don't have the Ad Mech support and trial and error with Warp Drives is lets just say horribly risky at a minimum.
No they do not produce navigators, navigators are not a 1 in 100 psychers kind of thing, they are a specific set of houses in the imperium. Also human psykers the Tau have won't be sanctioned psykers, they won't have been made resistant to the corruption of the warp by bonding with the emperor, so they are much more likely to be possessed. If the tau are using human daemonhost to guide their vessels thru the warp that's pretty dark,
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
ChargerIIC wrote: Everyone remembers that the BRB mentions Tau of the 4th expansion getting caught in a warp storm and getting shunted halfway across the galaxy right? Isn't this the same guys?
I don't think it was any kind of voluntary FTL. I think the 4th expansion survivors are making a home the hard way.
That was the fourth, this is explicitly mentioned as the fifth.
No they do not produce navigators, navigators are not a 1 in 100 psychers kind of thing, they are a specific set of houses in the imperium
Specifically they are a very specific set of Mutant that's been cultivated for a task, and that the older Navigators tend to look.. somewhat horrifying as they age.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 15:58:24
indeed they have both client races (some of whom use Warp Travel) and renegade human colonies who will produce navigators as well as any still on defected ships - we know at least one Battleship (!) defected
What might be an issue is the correct maintenance of the Gellar fields if they don't have the Ad Mech support and trial and error with Warp Drives is lets just say horribly risky at a minimum.
No they do not produce navigators, navigators are not a 1 in 100 psychers kind of thing, they are a specific set of houses in the imperium. Also human psykers the Tau have won't be sanctioned psykers, they won't have been made resistant to the corruption of the warp by bonding with the emperor, so they are much more likely to be possessed. If the tau are using human daemonhost to guide their vessels thru the warp that's pretty dark,
They may have some from captured /defected ships - enough to breed true maybe not. They do use creatures to take over control over humans - might also work on navigators. I think you might be right about the lack of ability for navigators to appear in the general population from time to time - my mistake.
Agreed re general human psykers the more likely to become possessed - hence the issues with trial and error, depends if they allow Pysker clients to work with them? It is weird that even with such races GW still does the whole Tau won't believe in Warpcraft all the time....Mind Science should have been investigated using the client races?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
ChargerIIC wrote: Everyone remembers that the BRB mentions Tau of the 4th expansion getting caught in a warp storm and getting shunted halfway across the galaxy right? Isn't this the same guys?
I don't think it was any kind of voluntary FTL. I think the 4th expansion survivors are making a home the hard way.
That was the fourth, this is explicitly mentioned as the fifth.
In any case, that's not what happened to the Fourth Expansion. It didn't end up on the other side of the galaxy; it disappeared.
