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I think some units prevent you from falling back, so this would let you get away anyways. Not always going to be used, but it's a nice tool to have in the toolbox if needed Other than that, yeah, it'll make Stealsuits a bit more elusive and open up options for slingshoting a homing beacon closer to where you want it.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Therion wrote:
So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save for a subsequent turn after standing still for their game turn?

Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.

You are not.
It really is a very bad trait.
And its paired with a bad warlord trait.
Unless they stratagem is outright broken-nobody will ever play this sept.


As for the "wall of mirrors" stratagem

What's even the point?
Stealths has fly, they can leave combat if they want to anyway-and it depends on your positioning last turn to even be used.
In what scenario do you even bother with this?

Correct me if I am wrong but don't stealth suits only move 8"? Seems like a 12" redeploy with the ability to charge and tie something else up could come in handy. It isn't amazing but I know I have been bogged down before and wished I had more movement to get away even with fly. I mean you can also use it to redeploy from behind a ghostkeel much farther forward then your move may normally take you which again could be nice for getting your guns in range as well as grabbing objectives. Maybe I missread it though.

Yeah wall of mirrors could actually be good - just not for the reasons that the people who wrote the article think. Catapulting stealths around the place is a decent way to tie up enemy tanks in cc, and it might work well with homing beacons if homing beacons still work.

Of course you should never give stealth suits or ghostkeels a trait that only works if they stand still. That would be absurd, especially if you plan on using a stratagem that moves them a really long way.

If they’d previewed wall of mirrors in the farsight update, selling it as a way to get your guys up close to things, to would have made rather more sense.

The always being in cover thing is decent for tanks (especially sky rays - if they are at all usable now), riptides and stormsurges. It’s not bad for infantry. It’s just bad for the units that GW thinks it’s good for.

Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.

Would the wall of mirrors stratagem count as a move for the purposes of that faction trait?
If not, could be a way to clear ground and get a save bonus.

Mandragola wrote:

If they’d previewed wall of mirrors in the farsight update, selling it as a way to get your guys up close to things, to would have made rather more sense.
.

They didn't give the farsight strategem in their preview so I'm guessing some kind of buff after deepstriking for crisis suits

Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

TBF, it seems to be the case that certain factions have playerbases who are more attached to the "lore subfactions" than others.

Eldar, Orks, and Space Marines' playerbases tend to be the ones in my experience who really like to go for the subfaction schemes/lore, while I don't think I've ever met a dedicated "Kabal of the whatever pointy thing" Dark Eldar player or a Vior-la sept Tau player. Mostly, they seem to just go for a scheme. Guard is a little different because you do get a lot of people going for the unique models to create that specific regiment, but if you've got someone playing with cadians they'll often be a custom scheme and they don't consider their dudes to be Cadian.

It all varies, of course, but I'd say you've got the following setup:

1) Players of factions that are already official sub-factions seem much more likely to follow the default paint scheme (Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Blood Angels, etc)

2) Older main faction players seem much more likely to pick a canon subfaction (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Orks)

3) Newer/more newly revamped faction players seem more likely to go for a custom color scheme (Tau, Dark Eldar, Necrons)

its also worth noting that of course nobody's got an existing army that adheres to many of these septs/hive fleets, because in both nid and tau codexes GW is releasing a bunch of new subfactions that had never been mentioned before or fleshed out. Borkan is totally new, so is the one that was previewed today, and I thought like Hydra and Jormungandr were new in the nid book.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.

It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

Well, yeah. It's not like any of the faction traits are so distinctive of a single subfaction that it's going to seem strange using one subfaction's rules (or a mix of subfactions' rules) while thinking of your army as really representing some other subfaction entirely. Like, it's not somehow unfluffy to set up a bunch of Ultramarines and say that you're using the Salamanders' rules for them. They seem very much designed to let you pick and choose whatever you think best suits your army, unless you're using special characters.

the_scotsman wrote:
Borkan is totally new, so is the one that was previewed today, and I thought like Hydra and Jormungandr were new in the nid book.

Bork'an and Da'lyth have been around since at least the 4th edition Tau codex as part of the original 8 Sept worlds or "First Phase Colonies" This isn't anything new.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

True. To be fair, this is because we never had to think about it before. We were Farsight or not, but we weren’t borkan or dalyth. And there was never (and still isn’t?) a colour scheme for each sept, because Tau actually use camo suitable for their missions.

So we’ve kind of got nothing to go on but the game effects. Or not much anyway. And in my case I’m a dead-eyed WAAC tournament junkie, so considerations outside of in-game bonuses are irrelevant to me.

The only thing that marks Tau septs are the black and white deathstar / moon phase symbol.


edit: proof reading, it's a SOB

My Tau army has been collecting dust for a long while (how long has it been since Kroot rifles gave +1 attack?). It was extremely stealth-suit heavy (Shadowsun and 3 units of 6 stealth suits) with kroot as the mass of bodies, backed up by Broadsides for fire support.

Lots of infiltration, lots of added cover bonuses. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will work again with this codex.

I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.

Currently my Night Lords are being played with Alpha Legion traits because I like stealthy Night Lords far better than scary ones.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.

A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.

Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.

Currently my Night Lords are being played with Alpha Legion traits because I like stealthy Night Lords far better than scary ones.

It seems perfectly normal for the Alpha Legion to masquerade as Night Lords. It is literally their thing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.

A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.

Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?

Same warehouse as Plastic Sisters, Pariahs and Warhammer Fantasy 9th ed, obviously.
I miss having more than 2 regiments available.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.

A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.

Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?

Same warehouse as Plastic Sisters, Pariahs and Warhammer Fantasy 9th ed, obviously.
I miss having more than 2 regiments available.

Pariahs don't exist as units anymore and haven't been available for at least three editions now.
Age of Sigmar exists. Deal with it.

Also, there are still "more than 2 regiments available"...just only two(really one, since Catachans are Direct Only) in plastic.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.

It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".

Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.

So, uh... did anyone want to see Relics, Stratagems, Point Values, and More?


Way too much to break down myself, I'll leave that to the rest of you, but one thing I saw...

We lost Stimulant Injectors as Support Systems. It is now a 1 CP Strategy that only affects the largest of battlesuits (the ones with multiple profiles), allowing it to operate at the highest level (so for 1 turn, you could boost your Riptide back up to 4+ base). No word on if Stormsurges got the Battlesuit keyword, so, uh... that's interesting.

Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.

We got an Orbital Ion Beam for everyone and a Sa'cea Orbital Markerlight Beam. Nifty.

2CP for the +1 to hit Farsight stratagem. Unfortunate, since it basically means its only going to be worth it when you bring a ton of Crisis Suits... which didn't drop in points at all (unless you were taking lots of BCs).

We have another form of Deepstrike-within-9" in the form of the Recon Drone Stratagem. That'll go over real well, I'm sure. Good thing we're utterly useless at melee, but Farsight Enclaves might enjoy more ways to deepstrike into +1-to-wound land.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
So, uh... did anyone want to see Relics, Stratagems, Point Values, and More?

Yeah saw them on 3plusplus.

Uplinked marker light seems a no brainer, like 1 cp a turn every turn. Command and control node is amazing, anything that lets you reroll wounds makes mid strength weapons great. Hot blooded is great, endless cacophony for tau infantry of the vior'la sept.

Outside of those no real standouts, a lot of fun ways to poke units trying to get into CC, and punish units that kill your units in CC. 12 warlord traits in neat, and something I hope they carry forward.

TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.

Dandelion wrote:
TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.

That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.

Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.

The funniest one is missile pod vs high yield missile pod. For one point more you get double the shots!

Irridium can go on any battlesuit now?

Stimulant Injector for 1CP is really usefull.

 FirePainter wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.

That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.

Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.

Excluding wargear; you still have to pay for sms/missile pod.

I really like that Sa'cea Sept Stratagem...Commander that seeds the battlefield with Markerlights! FREE MARKERLIGHT COUNTERS!