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 Fruzzle wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.

That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.

Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.

Excluding wargear; you still have to pay for sms/missile pod.

I knew something was fishy. Oh well...

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
So, uh... did anyone want to see Relics, Stratagems, Point Values, and More?


Way too much to break down myself, I'll leave that to the rest of you, but one thing I saw...

We lost Stimulant Injectors as Support Systems. It is now a 1 CP Strategy that only affects the largest of battlesuits (the ones with multiple profiles), allowing it to operate at the highest level (so for 1 turn, you could boost your Riptide back up to 4+ base). No word on if Stormsurges got the Battlesuit keyword, so, uh... that's interesting.

Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.

We got an Orbital Ion Beam for everyone and a Sa'cea Orbital Markerlight Beam. Nifty.

2CP for the +1 to hit Farsight stratagem. Unfortunate, since it basically means its only going to be worth it when you bring a ton of Crisis Suits... which didn't drop in points at all (unless you were taking lots of BCs).

We have another form of Deepstrike-within-9" in the form of the Recon Drone Stratagem. That'll go over real well, I'm sure. Good thing we're utterly useless at melee, but Farsight Enclaves might enjoy more ways to deepstrike into +1-to-wound land.

WAIT.

Does that spoon come with the Codex?

better linku here http://www.3plusplus.net/2018/03/tau-leak-stratagems-warlord-traits-signature-systems-point-values/

 Unusual Suspect wrote:


Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.

this isn't nesscarily a bad thing as it can open up options and varity in the army leading to some intreasting synergies. a good example of this is the raven guard chapter tactics and stratigium. that gives -1 to attack them at long ranges, but their stratigium allows them to drop a unit in close. this creates some pretty awesome synergy. And there are other tactic/stratigiums that work in similer ways. we'll have to see if this ends up working nicely.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

That's been the case ever since GW introduced snowflake rules like chapter traits which often even don't lead to fluffy armies. Case in point biker swarms of white scars.

tneva82 wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."

That's been the case ever since GW introduced snowflake rules like chapter traits which often even don't lead to fluffy armies. Case in point biker swarms of white scars.

True but GW's been trying to find an answer to the ye old question of "how to encourage fluffy" for awhile. the "Best" answer was proably formations. giving a fluffy grouping of units special rules, No one ever complained the Gladius was unfluffy. (unbalanced, sure, unfluffy no)

A fluffy game does not automatically make for a fun game.

Therefore balance is more important than fluff.

 Jidmah wrote:
A fluffy game does not automatically make for a fun game.

Therefore balance is more important than fluff.

Too bad GW has forgotten that with competent developers you can do both. "balance over fluff" is excuse of an lazy incompetent developer.

I really like the sound of some of those Relics. The Seismic Destabiliser will be great against enemy shooting armies that are taking cover.

That strategem where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit that charges and dish out mortal wounds on a 6 will also be useful against horde armies

Im liking it and so glad there not complete cheese so now i can play them and not be called that guy just because im playing tau

Am I missing something, or is there no multiple relics stratagem?

Dal'yth; Dynamic Mirror Field on a Ghostkeel, constant -2 to hit outside of 6".

"You can't hit me, I'm a ghost! Ooooo!"

I found the one reason to run a Dal'yth detachment.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.

It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".

Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.

No, not reinforcements as in things that use reinforcement points, but reinforcements as in the Reinforcements rules on p177 of the BRB. The Deep Strike rules, basically -- stuff that deep strikes can't move after it comes in. The BRB FAQ (p4) is explicit that anything that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again (as with the Teleport Homer or Gate of Infinity abilities) should be treated as reinforcements in this way. That it happens at the start of the movement phase is actually a disadvantage more often than not -- the effect of it is that you have to position your Ghostkeel and Stealth Suits a turn in advance (though you could then move the Ghostkeel afterwards).

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Am I missing something, or is there no multiple relics stratagem?

There is. It's called "Emergency Dispensation", bottom left on the second page of stratagems.

1CP for an extra relic or 3CP for an extra two

dapperbandit wrote:
I really like the sound of some of those Relics. The Seismic Destabiliser will be great against enemy shooting armies that are taking cover.

That strategem where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit that charges and dish out mortal wounds on a 6 will also be useful against horde armies

The stratagem only works on models that end within 3" of your unit, so it won't actually catch all that many of a horde unit.
Its most effective against expensive, hard-hitting single wound enemies like berzerkers or death company.


The seismic though, is one of the two auto-include relics in my book (the other being the PEN)
The question is, who do you GIVE it?

 Nilok wrote:
Dal'yth; Dynamic Mirror Field on a Ghostkeel, constant -2 to hit outside of 6".

"You can't hit me, I'm a ghost! Ooooo!"

I found the one reason to run a Dal'yth detachment.

Ghostkeel is not a characther, he can't take it.
So nope, there isn't a reason to take Dal'yth XD

Unless you REALLY want to play R'myr because you love him l I guess.

I always find a balanced game results in fluffy armies. If I can use any troops and still have a chance to win thrn I'll always bring fluff.

I'm not up on my Tau fluff, but are the enclaves still pretty low tech compared to the rest of the empire?

I'm thinking up a Farsight Enclaves army with a 12"-5" sweet spot and while the XV9 suits are perfect fluff wise, they are also experimental so I don't know that the FE would have them.

I actually really like what I see here so far. Nothing totally broken and the things that I think are probably a little OTT can be avoided easily enough without forcing yourself to auto-lose. I like it!

 godswildcard wrote:
I'm not up on my Tau fluff, but are the enclaves still pretty low tech compared to the rest of the empire?

I'm thinking up a Farsight Enclaves army with a 12"-5" sweet spot and while the XV9 suits are perfect fluff wise, they are also experimental so I don't know that the FE would have them.

I actually really like what I see here so far. Nothing totally broken and the things that I think are probably a little OTT can be avoided easily enough without forcing yourself to auto-lose. I like it!

They do have sympathisers in other Septs so they get some tech and /or info on how to make it.

They shouldn't have Etheriels but I donlt know if that made into the rules?

Thanks dapperbandit

 BoomWolf wrote:
The seismic though, is one of the two auto-include relics in my book (the other being the PEN)
The question is, who do you GIVE it?

I'd give the PEN to a fireblade to reroll a markerlight or similar and the Seisemic thing to a Coldstar (if it can take 2 fusions).
The Coldstar stands next to a broadside team, calls a Kauyon, uses the CNC node on the broadsides, then next turn it can jump off to be useful with the fusions and siesemic in the opponents back field.

I think the Dynamic Mirror Field is quite situational. Backfield characters are protected by being characters and the Neuroweb jammer does almost the same thing for 1CP. However, it works nicely with the vectored escape thrust strat on a QFC.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I really like that Sa'cea Sept Stratagem...Commander that seeds the battlefield with Markerlights! FREE MARKERLIGHT COUNTERS!

Yea and it is easily tossed into any list using a supreme command detachment fireblade or commander. Just pick an enemy captain and laugh as you get 4-5 free marker tokens per turn just for looking at them. If it's a fire blade you are adding another on a 2+

Pretty sure your gona see this in every list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
A fluffy game does not automatically make for a fun game.

Therefore balance is more important than fluff.

Too bad GW has forgotten that with competent developers you can do both. "balance over fluff" is excuse of an lazy incompetent developer.

Find me another game with half as many options and entries that plays with a quarter the models that is perfectly balanced. News flash, 40k is way to abstract to ever be balanced to the degree your expecting, moreover, you keep knocking their design team yet you spend your money on their game. Remind me who is incompetent again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..

Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.

It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".

Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.

No, not reinforcements as in things that use reinforcement points, but reinforcements as in the Reinforcements rules on p177 of the BRB. The Deep Strike rules, basically -- stuff that deep strikes can't move after it comes in. The BRB FAQ (p4) is explicit that anything that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again (as with the Teleport Homer or Gate of Infinity abilities) should be treated as reinforcements in this way. That it happens at the start of the movement phase is actually a disadvantage more often than not -- the effect of it is that you have to position your Ghostkeel and Stealth Suits a turn in advance (though you could then move the Ghostkeel afterwards).

Missed that FAQ, thanks for citing the relevant source. I still think it has uses, it just is not an auto use now.

 BoomWolf wrote:

dapperbandit wrote:
I really like the sound of some of those Relics. The Seismic Destabiliser will be great against enemy shooting armies that are taking cover.

That strategem where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit that charges and dish out mortal wounds on a 6 will also be useful against horde armies

The stratagem only works on models that end within 3" of your unit, so it won't actually catch all that many of a horde unit.
Its most effective against expensive, hard-hitting single wound enemies like berzerkers or death company.

3" from 50mm rounds. Within and not fully within. You will catch an entire horde with this. Especially if you're not base to base.

A 198mm (50mm + 72mm to the front and 72mm to the back) circle is nearly 30,000 mm^2. The 50mm base is about 2,000 of that. That leaves us with 28,000 of which we'll take 1/3 assuming the models are in the front only or 9,300. A 32mm base is roughly 800. Considering gaps that's 9 bases FULLY within that zone.

Add flamers for extra chuckles and the most unchargeable unit in the game.

Vior'la Preview

We saw most of this stuff with last night's leaks, but still.
Good to see that Stealth Suits are still considered Sept Infantry units as they suggest using "Hot Blooded" with them.

Damn. Writing up the Tau list I'm going to be building towards, all the points changes account for an additional 227 points in my 2k list. In case nobody's written it up yet, here are the changes I saw (didnt include a couple we saw already in the gw previews)

Broadside -20
Kroot -1
Fire Warriors -1
DS8 turret -20 (body is now free)
Piranha -7
Devilfish -21
Riptide -24
Skyray -19
Hammerhead -17
Razorshark/Sun Shark -10
Aunshi -8
Aunva +20 (Space pope 2 op)
Airbursting Projector -2
Burst Cannon -2
Cluster Rockets -36
Fusion Collider -9
Heavy Burst Cannon -20
Heavy Rail Rifle -28
HYMP -16
Ion Accelerator -47
Ion Cannon -20
Gun Drone +4 pts
Pulse Pistol +1 (Someone in playtesting had a fire warrior squad kill their melee unit in close combat with this I guess)
Rail Rifle -5
SMS -5
Supremacy Railgun -19
Advanced Targeting System +10 on big suits
ATS +4 on small stuff
Counterfire +5
Iridium Suit new 15pts
EWO +2 on big stuff
-3 on everything else
Ghostkeels now get 8pt shield gens instead of 40pts

Ion Cannon now gets D6 shots on overcharge
Ion Rifle now does 2 damage on overcharge
Longshot Pulse Rifle now does the mortal wound on a 6 sniper thing
Pulse Blastcannon +1D on medium and long profile
Pulse Driver CAnnon always D6 shots
Seeker MIssiles now S8 AP-2 Dd6 (no change to destroyer missiles)

the_scotsman wrote:
DS8 turret -20 (body is now free)

Let me just mention that previously the weapons were free and the body cost points, whereas now the body is free and the weapons cost points. So the DS8 w/ SMS is -5 compared to the Index while the DS8 w/ MP is +4 compared to the Index.

How did they get away with 24 pts missile pods with 25 pt high yield missile pods?

ok, so the Viorla tenet is only if the unit advances. That makes a lot more sense than the rumour, where it left out the clause about advancing.

Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).

Different units.

Oh that's good.

 alextroy wrote:
Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).

Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.