Imateria wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The amount of LD-stacking you can do in an eldar soup list is just awesome.

With the new coven, you can get:

-3 from proximity
-1 from Phantasm launchers
-2 from Hemlock
-1 from Terrify (which the Hemlock can cast)
-1 from the new Harlequin relic
-1 from the kill the WL strat
-1 from Spookmode on the PFP table (turn 4 if you take Black Heart)

Also, its pretty danged easy to stack to something like a -5. One Raider with 2 units of wracks or 3 grotesques and a haemie pop out to deliver that -3, and then you fly a Hemlock over and you've got definitely -5, maybe -6 to LD, on everything in a bubble.

I think we've found our horde-clearing dark eldar subfaction.

Never mind horde clearance. What I think is scariest from all those debuffs is the effect they have on Mind War. It's entirely possible to drop key characters down to Ld1 and drop enough mortal wounds to kill most units outright.

Add in the Harly psychic power Mirror of Minds which works a bit like Mind War.

Biggest problem I have with this is that DE no longer have any weapons that deal damage based on the Leadership stat, which I think would be an absolute requirement for the 8th ed version of the Freakshow list to actually work. PGL's don't help with the Psychic Powers either, since they do damage before the PGL is fired.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I emailed the FAQ team, I'd encourage others as well. They asked us too.

I suggested:

1. Disallow the use of army specific stratagems by armies that are more then 1 factions.

2. Multifaction armies no long receive the +3 CP's for bettleforged

3. Modifiers never stack, ie. only ever -1 or +1 and opposing mods cancel eachother out

4. Smite casting cost of 7+

5. Remove supreme command, if they want more HQ;s they should use the auxiliary chart at -1 per unit penalty. Currently no one ever uses that chart because it is never needed.

6. Remove infiltration, give nurglings, scouts and rangers either deepstrike or scout moves but remove the current ability to cover the board and prevent every other faction from deploying.

Much of this is highly flawed, here's a simple rundown of why:

1-Define "faction". is "daemons" a faction, or each of the gods? are word bearers a different faciton from black legion? if not, why are thousand sons different from death guard? there is no clear line in 8th except "share at least one faction keyword"

2-see 1

3-except that breaks alot of abilities and weapons in the game. even something as simple as +1 S from a warlord trait and a power axe.

4-you broke horrors and anyone else casting on one dice, also smite is not nearly good enough to justify this. a few sources were too good, but they got nerfed already.

5-why? does anything actually break if I want to have a whole bunch of librarians? is this fixing anything that isn't fixed by managing the point-costs of said HQs properly? (and making them actually lead rather than being individual powerhouses, *cough*taucommanderlimitismoronicandtheworstfixeveer*cough*

6-so...now they show out of nowhere mid-fight? yea, giving cheap troops the ability to deepstrike at will, what can POSSIBLY go wrong.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Well, remember it can be any edge. So it's more like you can go on offense or use them as a disposable screen, grab that suicidal objective and if they survive burn 2 CP's and walk them on from any edge onto another objective or grab line breaker. It won't be great every game, but it's the threat of such an ability that will make your opponent either focus them down at the expense of a lot of fire power, or simply ignore them.

I can see what you mean about it being less interesting, but I think it's mainly a result of other armies getting the same ability already. Remember thats just a stratagem, the other two are way lewss useful since they utilize shooting for COVEN units only, and coven isn't really about shooting. You pretty much are leaning on the Talos at that point. Will be interesting if ravagers and raiders can continue to take the coven key word, if thats the case then hot damn will An Esoteric Kill, Delivered From Afar be busted as hell. Imagine a ravager sniping out all the backfield characters... Yea, no way ravagers can do it, but man even a raider hitting a character with a dark lance is pretty hilarious lol.

Ravagers can't, but Reapers, from Forgeworld, can take the Coven keyword.

Theyre pretty much a Ravager "But slightly different" - they have a D6 shot gun instead of 3 shots, and its actually got the Heavy type. But it has an alt fire mode that's Heavy 2D6 S6 AP- D1 which can be useful in some niche circumstances.

THAT thing can snipe a character all day long.

Reaper?Try a Tantalus, two guns with 6 S8, AP-3 D2 shots have a good chance of removing two characters per turn with this strat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The amount of LD-stacking you can do in an eldar soup list is just awesome.

With the new coven, you can get:

-3 from proximity
-1 from Phantasm launchers
-2 from Hemlock
-1 from Terrify (which the Hemlock can cast)
-1 from the new Harlequin relic
-1 from the kill the WL strat
-1 from Spookmode on the PFP table (turn 4 if you take Black Heart)

Also, its pretty danged easy to stack to something like a -5. One Raider with 2 units of wracks or 3 grotesques and a haemie pop out to deliver that -3, and then you fly a Hemlock over and you've got definitely -5, maybe -6 to LD, on everything in a bubble.

I think we've found our horde-clearing dark eldar subfaction.

Never mind horde clearance. What I think is scariest from all those debuffs is the effect they have on Mind War. It's entirely possible to drop key characters down to Ld1 and drop enough mortal wounds to kill most units outright.

Add in the Harly psychic power Mirror of Minds which works a bit like Mind War.

Biggest problem I have with this is that DE no longer have any weapons that deal damage based on the Leadership stat, which I think would be an absolute requirement for the 8th ed version of the Freakshow list to actually work. PGL's don't help with the Psychic Powers either, since they do damage before the PGL is fired.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I emailed the FAQ team, I'd encourage others as well. They asked us too.

I suggested:

1. Disallow the use of army specific stratagems by armies that are more then 1 factions.

2. Multifaction armies no long receive the +3 CP's for bettleforged

3. Modifiers never stack, ie. only ever -1 or +1 and opposing mods cancel eachother out

4. Smite casting cost of 7+

5. Remove supreme command, if they want more HQ;s they should use the auxiliary chart at -1 per unit penalty. Currently no one ever uses that chart because it is never needed.

6. Remove infiltration, give nurglings, scouts and rangers either deepstrike or scout moves but remove the current ability to cover the board and prevent every other faction from deploying.

Much of this is highly flawed, here's a simple rundown of why:

1-Define "faction". is "daemons" a faction, or each of the gods? are word bearers a different faciton from black legion? if not, why are thousand sons different from death guard? there is no clear line in 8th except "share at least one faction keyword"

2-see 1

3-except that breaks alot of abilities and weapons in the game. even something as simple as +1 S from a warlord trait and a power axe.

4-you broke horrors and anyone else casting on one dice, also smite is not nearly good enough to justify this. a few sources were too good, but they got nerfed already.

5-why? does anything actually break if I want to have a whole bunch of librarians? is this fixing anything that isn't fixed by managing the point-costs of said HQs properly? (and making them actually lead rather than being individual powerhouses, *cough*taucommanderlimitismoronicandtheworstfixeveer*cough*

6-so...now they show out of nowhere mid-fight? yea, giving cheap troops the ability to deepstrike at will, what can POSSIBLY go wrong.

Email GW yourself lol. You don't need to convince me, you need to convince them. I mean, it;s entertaining how so many people keep trying to rebut my ideas like I am writing the rules myself but it's not the best use of your time. I was simply sharing a few ideas I had, don't like em? That's fine lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow that's some word salad. Can you edit it 3 or 4 more times please?

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I emailed the FAQ team, I'd encourage others as well. They asked us too.

I suggested:

1. Disallow the use of army specific stratagems by armies that are more then 1 factions.

2. Multifaction armies no long receive the +3 CP's for bettleforged

3. Modifiers never stack, ie. only ever -1 or +1 and opposing mods cancel eachother out

4. Smite casting cost of 7+

5. Remove supreme command, if they want more HQ;s they should use the auxiliary chart at -1 per unit penalty. Currently no one ever uses that chart because it is never needed.

6. Remove infiltration, give nurglings, scouts and rangers either deepstrike or scout moves but remove the current ability to cover the board and prevent every other faction from deploying.

I would never employ any of these horrible suggestions if it were for me, you basically understand nothing of the game let alone the current problems

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow thats all pretty awesome apart from the hellions already having that rule. Thanks for sharing!

tneva82 wrote:
Wych obsessions seems...Bit uninspired compared to others. +1A or advance+charge probably most popular.

Kdash wrote:
So, i can see why it was hinted that Reavers are going to be good again.

Currently, you can get 6 Reavers, with 2 Blasters and 2 Grav Talons for 220 points, that can now advance across the board first turn 24" and then charge. Could run 2 groups, 1 with +1 A and the other with +1 WS. Hell, a 3rd with +2 move could be handy as well. Screens suddenly mean nothing.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Hellions has Hit and Run now..... And the RWJF can already move 92" if you wanted (its an ability just for it).

So its cool to see some of the new info, but some of it isnt new.

Edit: grammar, english hard

tneva82 wrote:
Wych obsessions seems...Bit uninspired compared to others. +1A or advance+charge probably most popular.

 Mantle wrote:
So basic wyches are 2 attacks base, +1 for the blade, +1 from a drug and +1 from the trait being 5 attacks base, 6 on the syren? I was wondering how viable they would be in a venom as a small unit but that's not bad at all.

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Wych obsessions seems...Bit uninspired compared to others. +1A or advance+charge probably most popular.

My hope here is that someone realized that the +1A and +1S drugs are pretty universally better than the others (which are situationally OK, but the former two are mostly just always something every unit wants. For example, T5 reavers are neat, but if I could get +1S reavers AND a unit of +1S wyches...I'd just do that, every time) and they added those stats into the army wide obsessions while redesigning/improving some of the other drugs.

Otherwise, yeah, it seems strange that while Kabals and Covens get these intricate, very interesting Obsession bonuses, Wyches just get highly bland but effective stat boosts (you can pretty much consider Advance+Charge a movement stat boost, though it does some obnoxious things like not let you use those pistols you paid for)

A "hits of a 6 count as 3 hits" drug would be an amazing replacement for the current +1A drug for instance, because it amounts to +1/2A base but is also stackable with other auras and abilities to pump it up.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am hopimg that Lelith and her peers give a bonus to the no escape rule.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Wych obsessions seems...Bit uninspired compared to others. +1A or advance+charge probably most popular.

My hope here is that someone realized that the +1A and +1S drugs are pretty universally better than the others (which are situationally OK, but the former two are mostly just always something every unit wants. For example, T5 reavers are neat, but if I could get +1S reavers AND a unit of +1S wyches...I'd just do that, every time) and they added those stats into the army wide obsessions while redesigning/improving some of the other drugs.

Otherwise, yeah, it seems strange that while Kabals and Covens get these intricate, very interesting Obsession bonuses, Wyches just get highly bland but effective stat boosts (you can pretty much consider Advance+Charge a movement stat boost, though it does some obnoxious things like not let you use those pistols you paid for)

A "hits of a 6 count as 3 hits" drug would be an amazing replacement for the current +1A drug for instance, because it amounts to +1/2A base but is also stackable with other auras and abilities to pump it up.

Actually, +1S is completely useless on Reavers, Bladevanes have a set strength of 4.

I'm hoping there's more to the Cult Obsessions than just the stat change, but they're not a bad start on finally making Wych's better.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am guessing the Hekatari blade changed. Probably lost the +1 attack and we can only hope gained something like -1 ap. It was a huge problem that the special weapons and leaders all lost out by taking better weapons.