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What's the general consensus on the Pallas? Looks pretty good, not the sturdiest vehicle around but fast, can fly, and has a decent weapon and good stats for 100pts. Was planning on having 2 in my 2k list alongside a Caldius, 3x Vertus' and a Vertus Captain, would this be any good?

Geoff Robinson posted up a video talking about his opinions of the models, and gave some hints at what the testing was like. He said he prefers the Galatus over the Achillus because of the 4+ save. Idk if his opinion will change, from what he was saying the Galatus Warblade gave +5 Str in testing.

KampfKrote wrote:
Geoff Robinson posted up a video talking about his opinions of the models, and gave some hints at what the testing was like. He said he prefers the Galatus over the Achillus because of the 4+ save. Idk if his opinion will change, from what he was saying the Galatus Warblade gave +5 Str in testing.

The +5 str makes sense, as every other sword wielded by a robot gives some str bonus. Dreadknights for example are +4 and Armigers are x2 on one profile. I’m half expecting it to be an upload mistake.

https://youtu.be/ybpgoauAq70

Here’s the video for anyone wanting to watch it. NightsAtTheGameTable also posted a free article about the units, however it doesn’t go into as much detail. I’m still wanting to play around with Venatari. I think they could be a bit of a sleeper unit. Getting access to Tanglefoot is pretty big imo.

Also, screening with the Pallas + having a unit with tanglefoot can make your army pretty much unchargeable. -2 + -d6 inch to charge seems good.

The calladius grav tanks are amazing. Each one puts out the firepower of 5 hive guard (granted they dont ignore LOS) but with far more durability, mobility, and are buffable by trajann/shield captains/vexilla banners.

Definately wanna run a spearhead with 3 and trajann.

KampfKrote wrote:
Geoff Robinson posted up a video talking about his opinions of the models, and gave some hints at what the testing was like. He said he prefers the Galatus over the Achillus because of the 4+ save. Idk if his opinion will change, from what he was saying the Galatus Warblade gave +5 Str in testing.

+5 STR would certainly change my opinion of it. Cause 4 STR 7 attacks is utter garbage on 155 pt model that has almost no shooting and barely moves faster than an infantry model. STR 7 means you can't even wound a space marine character on a 2+ whereas STR 12 opens up a lot more viable targets.

One of the units I'm still confused about is the Coronus Grav-Carrier. It looks decent as a transport, mind you.

But I struggle to see a role in for it in my Custodes army.

How are you fielding yours?

 Darkseid wrote:
One of the units I'm still confused about is the Coronus Grav-Carrier. It looks decent as a transport, mind you.

But I struggle to see a role in for it in my Custodes army.

How are you fielding yours?

I think it's good if you really need a transport but don't want a Land Raider. It doesn't have the firepower of a LR, but it's 100pts cheaper, and has fly so less likely to get bogged down.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
One of the units I'm still confused about is the Coronus Grav-Carrier. It looks decent as a transport, mind you.

But I struggle to see a role in for it in my Custodes army.

How are you fielding yours?

it's 100pts cheaper, and has fly so less likely to get bogged down.

This here is all that's important.

Less firepower aside (which is debatable for the points), Custodes are already an incredibly expensive army per model. Saving points for that purpose goes a long way, especially when that model won't be stopped from moving forward by a single Gaunt or anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RogueApiary wrote:

KampfKrote wrote:
Geoff Robinson posted up a video talking about his opinions of the models, and gave some hints at what the testing was like. He said he prefers the Galatus over the Achillus because of the 4+ save. Idk if his opinion will change, from what he was saying the Galatus Warblade gave +5 Str in testing.

+5 STR would certainly change my opinion of it. Cause 4 STR 7 attacks is utter garbage on 155 pt model that has almost no shooting and barely moves faster than an infantry model. STR 7 means you can't even wound a space marine character on a 2+ whereas STR 12 opens up a lot more viable targets.

Well the thing would have a 3++ for what that's worth. Not a lot of course, but Knights won't kill it in one go at least.

Dreads don’t get an increase to their invuln, only infantry and biker units.

KampfKrote wrote:
Dreads don’t get an increase to their invuln, only infantry and biker units.

Whelp. Never mind then.

Also just realized all the Jump Pack dudes can carry Spears. So, uh, maybe they aren't as bad as I originally thought?

IMO the Venatari Lances are solid but I prefer the pistol + buckler combo personally. Helps mitigate the 3+ save by ignoring AP-1, and the melee is still very solid and can handle GEQs/MEQs just fine. The 18" on the pistol also helps them by keeping them out of rapid fire range and gives them shooting if they're stuck in combat, also helps in their role as a harassment/objective stealer/troop killer unit. Lances are nice if you need even more multi damage melee but we already have plenty of units that can do that.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
IMO the Venatari Lances are solid but I prefer the pistol + buckler combo personally. Helps mitigate the 3+ save by ignoring AP-1, and the melee is still very solid and can handle GEQs/MEQs just fine. The 18" on the pistol also helps them by keeping them out of rapid fire range and gives them shooting if they're stuck in combat, also helps in their role as a harassment/objective stealer/troop killer unit. Lances are nice if you need even more multi damage melee but we already have plenty of units that can do that.

The only AP-1 that would be a threat off the top of my head is the Predator Autocannon. Otherwise they're wounded at a low enough rate that I wouldn't care.

Also keep in mind there's a world of difference between a Marine getting a 5+ save in melee and a 6+ save in melee, and more fast ways to deliver multi-damage weapons isn't exactly a bad thing.

I’m hoping the Venatari are better than they look on paper. I think access to Tanglefoot on a unit with 12” movement is nothing to scoff at. I’ve been working on a few lists with them, and my models should arrive this weekend.

I’ve also been working on this list:



I’m gonna proxy up the grav tanks and try this out over the weekend.

I think the Venatari are just fine and you're right, a highly mobile unit that can use tanglefoot grenade can't be underestimated. Combined with some clever positioning with your grav vehicles to cover your units vulnerable to melee and suddenly you've made charges for your opponent extremely difficult if not impossible.

@Slayer-Fan that's fair, people's biggest gripe with them is their 3+ save but the best weapons against Custodes are typically weapons like plasma, so they would go to their 4++ anyway. And if you're really that concerned about AP0, an infantry unit with that kind of mobility could probably get cover pretty easily. IMO either is a viable option, it just depends on what you are doing with them and it might not be a bad idea to mix weapons in the unit. The Lances definitely help if you face a lot of Primaris though.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I think the Venatari are just fine and you're right, a highly mobile unit that can use tanglefoot grenade can't be underestimated. Combined with some clever positioning with your grav vehicles to cover your units vulnerable to melee and suddenly you've made charges for your opponent extremely difficult if not impossible.

@Slayer-Fan that's fair, people's biggest gripe with them is their 3+ save but the best weapons against Custodes are typically weapons like plasma, so they would go to their 4++ anyway. And if you're really that concerned about AP0, an infantry unit with that kind of mobility could probably get cover pretty easily. IMO either is a viable option, it just depends on what you are doing with them.

1-2 extra shots with the gun simply isn't worth the exchange from multi-damage melee, especially when, as you said, they're mobile enough to get cover if it is really necessary.

For me personally, the biggest benefit is the 18" range with given their move, it gives them a 30" threat range, with the extra hits being icing on the cake. I face enough autocannons, assault cannons, Gauss weapons, and massed rending claws and not enough Primaris and multi wound elite models without invulnerable saves in my meta to make me consider the Buckler. However, throwing in a single Lance to my 3 man unit is worth considering to at least make them be a threat to multi wound units in a pinch.

So is it just me or do the Aquillon with Solarite Guantlets and Storm Cannon Telemon seem to fulfill the same role, ish? Both have a solid anti-infantry mode and a solid anti-tank power. The difference is one is melee and one is ranged. They're even about the same points.

With no ability to re-roll charge though, the Telemon seem better.

I do have to say, I’m a bit disappointed that the Buckler rule from 30k reduces incoming AP by 1, and the 40K rule just ignores AP -1. Would be much, much better if you could benefit from cover and have the AP reduced by 1.

I haven’t messed around with any lists that run Grav Tanks and Venatari, maybe that is my next project.

Audustum wrote:
So is it just me or do the Aquillon with Solarite Guantlets and Storm Cannon Telemon seem to fulfill the same role, ish? Both have a solid anti-infantry mode and a solid anti-tank power. The difference is one is melee and one is ranged. They're even about the same points.

With no ability to re-roll charge though, the Telemon seem better.

If you're talking about purely from a "this unit is good against these types of units" standpoint, then you got a point. I think just the threat of deep striking into your opponent's backline with Aquilons forces your opponent to make different decisions in terms of target priority and being able to tie up a shooting unit with the best melee our army has to offer changes the game differently than getting into a straight up firefight with Telemons.

Speaking of deep striking, has anyone figured out a good strategy in using the Vexilla Teleport Homer, or is using the Praetorian Plate and hoping things work out the best move we have with using that stratagem?

The homer is basically a turn 3 gimmick: you deepstrike the vexilla turn 2, and turn 3 you drop your deepstriking units on top of him. You can already move the vexilla 18+3D6 inches by then, so if you think 12+2D6" is enough you can bring your deepstrikers in turn 2. The problem is that turn 3 is waayyy too late to be bringing in several hundred points of your army. Praetorian Plate can be ok but only if you have a unit that can move fast enough turn 1/2 to make use of it. Cause in the end, remember that by turn 2 a Jetbike captain's charge range is 28+2D6" (assuming you don't advance for an additional 6" T1) from his starting position...that's probably enough.

The Praetorian Plate seems like the best way to use it. Might help if they're an assault army that decides to charge YOU instead, but it's still not particularly reliable if your opponent is wise to what you're doing and decides to fall back on their turn instead to completely shut down that strategy. Shame, Custodes could use a better way to make those 9" deep strike charges a little easier.

If you are willing to use the Orion dropship,
you embark the vexilla turn 1 (the Orion is at -2 to hit if you have second turn) and you move in enemey line.
you disembark turn 2 moving 9’’ and you use the stratagem

But maybe we can’t sonce the model was not on the battlefield...

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
If you are willing to use the Orion dropship,
you embark the vexilla turn 1 (the Orion is at -2 to hit if you have second turn) and you move in enemey line.
you disembark turn 2 moving 9’’ and you use the stratagem

But maybe we can’t sonce the model was not on the battlefield...

Might as well put the Terminators in the Orion at that stage and save yourself 3 CP

Although you should always have a banner around for that sweet sweet -2 to hit either way.

Yeah at that point I might as well take a Coronus and move them up myself. I've heard people having some success just foot slogging the Vexilla up the board and using it midfield so we'll see. Might be fun to do it in some casual games and see if it's worth it at all, or give the Praetorian Plate a try. Guess it depends on if getting 18 + 2d6 (2 turns of advancing plus 6" on the Vexilla Teleport Homer range) is enough to get to the deep striking unit's targets while still getting better than a 9" charge.

Saw this on Bolter and Chainsword. It was apparently mentioned on the live stream:

Rinion
Good note from the WHTV livestream today, legit GW main Codex team rules, and as legitimate as the Sisters of Battle Beta Codex and the Beta Bolter rule, and allowed at GW events, and not Forge World, so if Sister of Battle are allowed at ETC/ITC etc then these are too, or should be. Some people get uppity about Forge World rules use, but these are not. Only the physical miniatures are FW.

WildWeasel
Yes, you need a paid sub to watch back videos.

What they mean is that these Custodes beta rules have gone through the same process and have the same "weight" as the beta SoB and Bolter Drill rules. What any given event allows is still entirely up to the TO's - even GW and WHW has different events that do different things. Basically, what they are saying is if someone goes "These beta Custodes rules are janky FW rules" they are wrong.

Mark0sian
The legit main codex teams means these rules were written by the same team who wrote all the 8th edition 40k codexes. Originally these Custodes rules were going to be written by the Forgeworld rules team which meant GW could ignore them, however now they are written by GWs own team they have to include them in any GW event. If an independent event disallowed them it would be the equivalent of disallowing the sisters of battle beta codex and when they are finalised it would be the equivalent of disallowing Codex: Orks or any other codex.

Good news if you want to take these to a tournament!

I posed this question in the Deathwatch Tactic thread, but it fits here as well:

I'm building a 2 Battalion DW army with no vehicles and very generous with Stormbolters and Stormshields. But I'm a bit light on anti-tank ranged weapons.
I'll be including 3 Dawneagle Sheild Captains (which is where the question comes in).
Typically I only see lists with them equipped with Hurricane Bolters, which seem to be the better choice for them.
But since my list will already have tons of SIA SBs, would it be worth upgrading to Salvo Launchers for the Shield Capts?

Even at -1 to hit for moving (because why wouldn't you move them) they still hit on 3+ rerolling 1s. and it's only 1 pt more than a regular Melta but twice the range and reroll wounds on vehicles all the time.

So while not the most optimized for the Capts themselves, the nature of my list makes the Hurricane bolters redundant and the Salvo Launcher fills a dire need.

Thoughts?

-

 Galef wrote:
I posed this question in the Deathwatch Tactic thread, but it fits here as well:

I'm building a 2 Battalion DW army with no vehicles and very generous with Stormbolters and Stormshields. But I'm a bit light on anti-tank ranged weapons.
I'll be including 3 Dawneagle Sheild Captains (which is where the question comes in).
Typically I only see lists with them equipped with Hurricane Bolters, which seem to be the better choice for them.
But since my list will already have tons of SIA SBs, would it be worth upgrading to Salvo Launchers for the Shield Capts?

Even at -1 to hit for moving (because why wouldn't you move them) they still hit on 3+ rerolling 1s. and it's only 1 pt more than a regular Melta but twice the range and reroll wounds on vehicles all the time.

So while not the most optimized for the Capts themselves, the nature of my list makes the Hurricane bolters redundant and the Salvo Launcher fills a dire need.

Thoughts?

-

I haven't rechecked the math in a long time, but last time we discussed the loadouts it's because the difference is negligible against some of the Salvo's preferred targets.

Against a T7 3+ vehicle, the Salvo's Melta shot averages 2.41 damage. Against a 4++ Knight it averages 1.03. Against a 3++ Knight it averages .68.

Against a T7 3+ vehicle, the Hurricane Bolter averages .65/1.30 damage (Out of Rapid Fire/Rapid Fire). Against a 4++ Knight it averages .32/.65 (Out of Rapid Fire/Rapid Fire) Against a 3++ Knight it averages the same.

Basically, the higher the invulnerable on your target, the closer the two weapons become (being about equal in Rapid Fire range against an Ion Bulwark Knight with Rotate Ion Shields). If you're shooting at a lot of T7/3+ 'standard' vehicles, then it could definitely help a list like yours. If you're shooting competitive Imperial Knights, not so much.

Audustum wrote:
I haven't rechecked the math in a long time, but last time we discussed the loadouts it's because the difference is negligible against some of the Salvo's preferred targets.

Against a T7 3+ vehicle, the Salvo's Melta shot averages 2.41 damage. Against a 4++ Knight it averages 1.03. Against a 3++ Knight it averages .68.

Against a T7 3+ vehicle, the Hurricane Bolter averages .65/1.30 damage (Out of Rapid Fire/Rapid Fire). Against a 4++ Knight it averages .32/.65 (Out of Rapid Fire/Rapid Fire) Against a 3++ Knight it averages the same.

Basically, the higher the invulnerable on your target, the closer the two weapons become (being about equal in Rapid Fire range against an Ion Bulwark Knight with Rotate Ion Shields). If you're shooting at a lot of T7/3+ 'standard' vehicles, then it could definitely help a list like yours. If you're shooting competitive Imperial Knights, not so much.

Thanx. That's good news. As much as I like the Hurricane Bolters, they just don't seem like they are adding a huge boost to my list, whereas the Melta Missiles seem very necessary.

Although the list I am working on probably won't do very good against a Knight list at all. At least not at range. I've got plenty of Thunder Hammers in the list for Knights though, plus the Shield Captains.

-

Is the Telemon still good with the nerfs compared to the grav tanks. I am in the process of building mine and its such a great model to build. The tanks on the other hand look ass...