Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Dumb thought, but tell me if this would be unbalanced:

"Unleash the Hoplites" 1/3CP, Choose one/two Squads of Custodian Guard, they may now equip guardian spears with their storm shields.

My Necron Lychguard have been wanting to mix scythes/shields for years. I don't think GW will allow it to happen.

 iGuy91 wrote:
When i last played Tau, they struggled to damage my Telemon with a -1 to hit. I also used LOS to really avoid his worst firepower until I got in. Made his big suits leave the castle to come to me, to get LOS.

Technically, the Orion with a Vexilla is -2 to hit, good luck getting a decent number of hits on it until it hurts you. (Shrug)

As a Tau player myself, I can say definitively anything that gives you penalties to an already lackluster BS is crippling. Shadowsun Kauyon can ameliorate this somewhat for two turns, but at the cost of mobility. A Vexilla Magnifica would be nasty against Tau, and pairing this with maybe a backfield of Stygies VIII Dunecrawlers would be basically an autowin. (agianst Tau, definitely not a general-purpose list) Definitely use the From Golden Light stratagem, as turns 1 and 2 are the Tau's best turns, what with Kauyon and all, and denying them shooting against two of your units which can then appear right in their face is scary.

Tau will most likely be rocking full re-rolls to hit, so the -1 is a lot less effective than you’d think.

Also, who is using DS on turn 1? And im not going to lie, on super elite armies like the Custodes, not having any models on the table during the first turn is tough to deal with. Especially if you go second. So at most, I might leave a Squad of Regular or FW Terminators in the slot, with maybe a Shield captain? But saying I'm keeping these several squads in the teleporter with a flag, that's like half the army...

DS on turn 1? I don't believe thats rules legal any more.

Nobody's deepstriking turn one. What's being talked about here is using FGLTC to protect units from fire turn one.

Yeah, sorry, misread the post.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Tau will most likely be rocking full re-rolls to hit, so the -1 is a lot less effective than you’d think.

How? Seriously, how?

Edit: And unless they have Cawl or Abaddon levels of rerolls, they can only reroll 1s, 2s, and 3s.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Tau will most likely be rocking full re-rolls to hit, so the -1 is a lot less effective than you’d think.

How? Seriously, how?

Edit: And unless they have Cawl or Abaddon levels of rerolls, they can only reroll 1s, 2s, and 3s.

Kauyon is a full (but not Cawl/Abby-grade) reroll bubble that a Commander can impart for one round of shooting. Shadowsun gets to do it twice. This typically gets paired with the Command and Control Node strategem that allows a battlesuit unit close to a Commander to reroll all wounds.

Bonus points to the Tau sept strat that imparts a +1 to wound after damage is done to a model, and Darkstrider's ability to simply point and give a unit another +1. End result is Missilesides wounding anything T7 and below on 2s, and anything T14 and below on 3s, rerolling.

Its the secret sauce that makes the broadside star so dangerous (and isnt shabby on a Riptide either).

So after some research, still not an expert, but I know a little. Broadsides are wicked expensive for the amount of shooting they put out. If my opponent wants to tie up 600pts in 3 units that maybe take out a squad....go for it.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So after some research, still not an expert, but I know a little. Broadsides are wicked expensive for the amount of shooting they put out. If my opponent wants to tie up 600pts in 3 units that maybe take out a squad....go for it.

A Shadowsun and Darkstrider boosted Missileside star is doing a hell of a lot more than "tak[ing] out a squad". And they go for ~400 these days for a full trio, plus or minus extra equipment and/or drones.

Its a unit that can, by itself, cripple to liquefy a knight per turn depending on how well one rolls on d3s. Dismiss it at your own peril.

Ok, I concede. My main question then remains:

Given how mind shatteringly pants shittingly OP these types of Tau are, how does a Lowly Custodes player prep?

I thought TSons were the paper to our rock?

Darkstrider only boosts infantry units. Broadsides can only get +1 to wound from T'au sept stratagem.

Assuming player skills are equal, you'll need to tailor your list a bit, but winning against a Broadsides, Riptides, and Shadowsun list is possible.

The first thing to think about is your backfield. A vindicare would be good against Shadowsun if they're careless with their drones (I once lost a whole game that way) Don't take Caladiuses because they'll get outshot and the Tau are fairly good at killing things that FLY but aren't SUPERSONIC, due to their Velocity Trackers. Dawneagle Shield-Captains are iffy for the same reason, but if they survive the shooting and the overwatch they'll wreak havoc. This actually goes for the whole army. If you can survive the shooting and the overwatch and break into melee range you'll win.

Off the top of my head, I'd say there are a few ways to do this. The first is a Distraction Carnifex. This could be a cheap Knight rushing them, a squad of Dunecrawlers or, if you're strapped for points, a squad of sword-and-board Custodians. It depends on the caliber of your opponent, but I very frequently find myself, when playing Tau, prioritizing targets based not on mission significance, but on what I can shoot most effectively. The second is deepstriking. I would say a 9" charge isn't great when you're facing the sheer devastation Tau overwatch can unleash, but Allarus Concussion grenades can mitigate this a bit if you get some good positioning, but you're still going to be dealing with For the Greater Good. Remember that units that fire Greater Good can't fire overwatch, so if their whole army Greater Goods one of your units (which probably means they kill it), you can charge into a unit that just fired Greater Good with impunity. Make sure you kill enough screening drones in your shooting phase to open gaps so you can get to the juicy targets. Be mindful that Riptides and Crisis suits can FLY, but Broadsides can't.

That's just all killing-wise. Points-wise, be aware that drones have morale 6, so if the other player forgets to position them within 6" of their Ethereal morale attrition could be getting you a Kill More, and maybe even Butcher's Bill. Their infantry is vulnerable, so if they're taking Strike Teams for the CPs, make them regret it. If you want to really lean on cheating soup, spamming Leman Russes can outrange their broadsides, making them move and thus spread out. (I say take Leman Russes but not Caladiuses although Caladiuses are better point-for-point because of the velocity tracker and you can field more Leman Russes. Remember, we're talking about spamming here.)Speaking of which, despite their mobility, movement is not Shadowsun Bubble Tau's friend, so if you're not getting Hold More every turn, something's wrong.

OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

The best way to beat tau is to outrange them with Telemon and Caladius.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

Well if that's the case, VotBG is an auto include.

 _SeeD_ wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

Well if that's the case, VotBG is an auto include.

yeah it's pretty good but only if you can make good use of lot of re-rolls on important rolls. I think it's best use is on a bike captain that has the supirior creation WL trait and the Auric Aquilas that combined with VotBG makes him VERY tough.

 _SeeD_ wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

Well if that's the case, VotBG is an auto include.

It sounds really awesome, lots of free re-rolls, but I've stopped using it unless I have heaps of CP:

You pretty much always spend the rerolls on saves right? (most AC characters already reroll everything else pretty much) You have to make 3 save rerolls before taking VotBG becomes better value than just saving the CP for a normal reroll. That means a minimum of 3 rounds of combat where my Shield Captain or Trajaan has been in combat during the game.

I find that if he has been in the thick of combat for this long during the game he has probably killed whatever was a threat to him (i.e forcing him to make the saves), and honestly, if your Custodes have been in combat for 3 turns you're probably close to winning the game.

You do gain the added benefit of being able to double up, and reroll 2 saves in one round for example, if you have to. But you lose access to that 2CP that could have been used in a more efficient way depending on what happens in the mission and how the battle goes. If you character spends all game running around and not fighting anything serious, those CP might've been better used on the unit(s) that were in the thick of fighting.

Definitely not a terrible choice, but I wouldn't say auto-include unless you have heaps of CP. I don't find myself with that many these days, hardly ever even take a battalion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

Well if that's the case, VotBG is an auto include.

It sounds really awesome, lots of free re-rolls, but I've stopped using it unless I have heaps of CP:

You pretty much always spend the rerolls on saves right? (most AC characters already reroll everything else pretty much) You have to make 3 save rerolls before taking VotBG becomes better value than just saving the CP for a normal reroll. That means a minimum of 3 rounds of combat where my Shield Captain or Trajaan has been in combat during the game.

I find that if he has been in the thick of combat for this long during the game he has probably killed whatever was a threat to him (i.e forcing him to make the saves), and honestly, if your Custodes have been in combat for 3 turns you're probably close to winning the game.

You do gain the added benefit of being able to double up, and reroll 2 saves in one round for example, if you have to. But you lose access to that 2CP that could have been used in a more efficient way depending on what happens in the mission and how the battle goes. If you character spends all game running around and not fighting anything serious, those CP might've been better used on the unit(s) that were in the thick of fighting.

Definitely not a terrible choice, but I wouldn't say auto-include unless you have heaps of CP. I don't find myself with that many these days, hardly ever even take a battalion.

The way I see it, if you run a 5 CP battery, that gives me 9 CP for my particular army. That's 2 for VotBG on my bike captain, 6 for Vexilla Homer and/or Stooping Dive and 1 for Tanglefoot, Concussion, or a Spear/Axe buff.
Also, does anyone else think Aquilon Terminators should have the "Slayer of Tyrants" rule? That would really push me over the edge.

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
OK quick question:
Victor of the Blood Games. Do I get to reroll once during my turn and once during my opponent's turn, or just once per round?

"Use this Stratagem when you set up an ADEPTUS
CUSTODES CHARACTER from your army during
deployment. You can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll
or one save roll for this model in each turn."

You can reroll once during your turn and once during your opponent's turn.

Well if that's the case, VotBG is an auto include.

It sounds really awesome, lots of free re-rolls, but I've stopped using it unless I have heaps of CP:

You pretty much always spend the rerolls on saves right? (most AC characters already reroll everything else pretty much) You have to make 3 save rerolls before taking VotBG becomes better value than just saving the CP for a normal reroll. That means a minimum of 3 rounds of combat where my Shield Captain or Trajaan has been in combat during the game.

I find that if he has been in the thick of combat for this long during the game he has probably killed whatever was a threat to him (i.e forcing him to make the saves), and honestly, if your Custodes have been in combat for 3 turns you're probably close to winning the game.

You do gain the added benefit of being able to double up, and reroll 2 saves in one round for example, if you have to. But you lose access to that 2CP that could have been used in a more efficient way depending on what happens in the mission and how the battle goes. If you character spends all game running around and not fighting anything serious, those CP might've been better used on the unit(s) that were in the thick of fighting.

Definitely not a terrible choice, but I wouldn't say auto-include unless you have heaps of CP. I don't find myself with that many these days, hardly ever even take a battalion.

The way I see it, if you run a 5 CP battery, that gives me 9 CP for my particular army. That's 2 for VotBG on my bike captain, 6 for Vexilla Homer and/or Stooping Dive and 1 for Tanglefoot, Concussion, or a Spear/Axe buff.
Also, does anyone else think Aquilon Terminators should have the "Slayer of Tyrants" rule? That would really push me over the edge.

I would say no to the Aquilon idea because then there's no point at all to Allarus. The Aquilons are already better in so many ways that it'd just be a total blowout at that point.

Not at all tactics related:

Is there a good video on how to paint the lightning effect on Custodes melee weapons? Like on the box? All my attempts are turning them into crap.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not at all tactics related:

Is there a good video on how to paint the lightning effect on Custodes melee weapons? Like on the box? All my attempts are turning them into crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm8J-kaezWM
Here you go bro. Duncan does the entire guardian model so the weapon is near the end at about 10:00.

On a competitive note, I'm preparing for a tournament, how are my fellow Custodes dealing with the Eldar flyer spam list?

I'm talking about the heavy flyer list rather than the Ravager spam list. So something along the lines of:

3 Crimson Hunter Exarxhs (which re-roll failed wounds against Jetbikes and Caladii and -2 to be Hit thanks to Alaitoc + Hard to Hit)
3 Razorwing Jetfighters
About 6 squads of Guardians/Rangers
Farseers and Warlocks

Audustum wrote:
On a competitive note, I'm preparing for a tournament, how are my fellow Custodes dealing with the Eldar flyer spam list?

I'm talking about the heavy flyer list rather than the Ravager spam list. So something along the lines of:

3 Crimson Hunter Exarxhs (which re-roll failed wounds against Jetbikes and Caladii and -2 to be Hit thanks to Alaitoc + Hard to Hit)
3 Razorwing Jetfighters
About 6 squads of Guardians/Rangers
Farseers and Warlocks

Only possibility I see is charging them out of the air with bikes. But the deck is stacked against you.

Audustum wrote:
On a competitive note, I'm preparing for a tournament, how are my fellow Custodes dealing with the Eldar flyer spam list?

I'm talking about the heavy flyer list rather than the Ravager spam list. So something along the lines of:

3 Crimson Hunter Exarxhs (which re-roll failed wounds against Jetbikes and Caladii and -2 to be Hit thanks to Alaitoc + Hard to Hit)
3 Razorwing Jetfighters
About 6 squads of Guardians/Rangers
Farseers and Warlocks

Salvo launchers on your bikes have you shooting D3 missiles, hitting flyers on 2s, S7, -1 AP, Dd3. There's also a 1 CP strat that lets you reroll wounds on the Flakburst Missiles from the salvo launchers:

BURST MISSILE NET
Adeptus Custodes Stratagem
Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when
choosing a unit of Vertus Praetors from your army to
make their ranged attacks. If they all fire flakkburst
missiles at the same target with the FLY keyword, you can
re-roll failed wound rolls for these attacks

Audustum wrote:
On a competitive note, I'm preparing for a tournament, how are my fellow Custodes dealing with the Eldar flyer spam list?

I'm talking about the heavy flyer list rather than the Ravager spam list. So something along the lines of:

3 Crimson Hunter Exarxhs (which re-roll failed wounds against Jetbikes and Caladii and -2 to be Hit thanks to Alaitoc + Hard to Hit)
3 Razorwing Jetfighters
About 6 squads of Guardians/Rangers
Farseers and Warlocks

3x Caladius tanks, bikes, and Trajann will help; even though they have the re-roll to wound you are -1 to hit. I lost to a flyer list because I went second...and that's basically the main reason; whoever gets the first shooting phase has a big advantage in that matchup. Castle up into the center of the board, and when the flyer box pattern gets too close charge it or at least get inside 12" so they are only -1 to hit. And then hope you roll good, a Telemon instead of a grav tank might be nice for the extra toughness and save.

The ground forces may be inside wave serpents, so harder to kill. If you have the points/CP to drop something like aquilon terminators in their backfield you might mess them up, but in ITC you're probably better off hiding in a magic box and scoring "behind enemy lines". Bottom line, with our low model count you have to kill the flyers. Salvo launchers unfortunately suck against everything else so I'm still undecided on taking them in a tournament when rapid-fire hurricane bolters are almost as good.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Audustum wrote:
On a competitive note, I'm preparing for a tournament, how are my fellow Custodes dealing with the Eldar flyer spam list?

I'm talking about the heavy flyer list rather than the Ravager spam list. So something along the lines of:

3 Crimson Hunter Exarxhs (which re-roll failed wounds against Jetbikes and Caladii and -2 to be Hit thanks to Alaitoc + Hard to Hit)
3 Razorwing Jetfighters
About 6 squads of Guardians/Rangers
Farseers and Warlocks

3x Caladius tanks, bikes, and Trajann will help; even though they have the re-roll to wound you are -1 to hit. I lost to a flyer list because I went second...and that's basically the main reason; whoever gets the first shooting phase has a big advantage in that matchup. Castle up into the center of the board, and when the flyer box pattern gets too close charge it or at least get inside 12" so they are only -1 to hit. And then hope you roll good, a Telemon instead of a grav tank might be nice for the extra toughness and save.

The ground forces may be inside wave serpents, so harder to kill. If you have the points/CP to drop something like aquilon terminators in their backfield you might mess them up, but in ITC you're probably better off hiding in a magic box and scoring "behind enemy lines". Bottom line, with our low model count you have to kill the flyers. Salvo launchers unfortunately suck against everything else so I'm still undecided on taking them in a tournament when rapid-fire hurricane bolters are almost as good.

An Icarus Array dunecrawler might help? Even when facing the few armies without anything with FLY, it could score points or absorb fire, and it's pretty cheap

In regards to the VotBG, from the Tactics page of 1d4chan:


Most of time this is going to be used on a Shield Captain. Unless he's taking a negative on his to-hit rolls for some reason, he's already rerolling all his 1's, so you can't spend the reroll there. That leaves only the wound rolls and saves that will ever get used for this. While still AMAZING to have that sort of insurance in your back pocket, for a CP hungry army like this, this (usually) two-option single reroll may not be worth a whole 2CP. Against certain lists it definitely could be, but you should always consider what you're going to get out of it first. If you don't think your shield-captain on jetbike will be threatened by much or have trouble wounding in a certain match, consider saving the 2CP for something else.

I'd spend it on Trojan, and Vexhilla teleport him into the back lines, but it really doesn't do much for Biker captains. With the ammount of dakka getting tossed around in the 8th, it's hard to validate 2cp for a single die roll.

Maybe I'm misplaying it? It's 1 single die, not all the die rolled in the act right? So, it's not all the hurricane bolter shots, it's one single miss.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
In regards to the VotBG, from the Tactics page of 1d4chan:


Most of time this is going to be used on a Shield Captain. Unless he's taking a negative on his to-hit rolls for some reason, he's already rerolling all his 1's, so you can't spend the reroll there. That leaves only the wound rolls and saves that will ever get used for this. While still AMAZING to have that sort of insurance in your back pocket, for a CP hungry army like this, this (usually) two-option single reroll may not be worth a whole 2CP. Against certain lists it definitely could be, but you should always consider what you're going to get out of it first. If you don't think your shield-captain on jetbike will be threatened by much or have trouble wounding in a certain match, consider saving the 2CP for something else.

I'd spend it on Trojan, and Vexhilla teleport him into the back lines, but it really doesn't do much for Biker captains. With the ammount of dakka getting tossed around in the 8th, it's hard to validate 2cp for a single die roll.

Maybe I'm misplaying it? It's 1 single die, not all the die rolled in the act right? So, it's not all the hurricane bolter shots, it's one single miss.

Might be better with a Salvo Launcher Biker then. But (shrug)